C.O.R.E HOI - United States of America

[Indiana]

NOTE:
IF the CORE Mod is going to go past the Jan 1948 and/or when/If the War comes to an End for the USA.....I know there was a HUGE demobilization of units at the end of the War. Just a Historical FYI.... If there is any 'pause' between Wars going forward.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Yes, but this kind of event (not only for USA, but for any democratic nation, and in smaller way - for nazi/stalinist regimes) makes several problems....
First, only possible way is the use of "delete unit" command - but there is no chance to do this in any different way then random (but I don't know how it's handled in 1.04).
I would suggest HUGE drop of warentry instead - this would make big difference between supplies and consumer goods and make player to disband some of his units simply to keep the rest operational (in teory). But I'm affraid AI is not able to do this - futhermore AI always creates divs until its manpower is gone. And it not solves demobilisation in nazi/stalinist regimes at all.

Let's see what 1.04 could offer us in this matter and later we could start disscussing it once again.

 

[Ming]

Well, here I've just written an event dealing with Executive Order 8802. This was when Roosevelt signed an order outlawing discrimination in defense corporation hiring practises at the urging of civil rights groups.

The USA player won't like this event due to its "damned if you do, damned if you don't" quality, but unfortunately factory workers historically didn't accept the hiring of Blacks in defense industries very well, even shutting down plants, and if Roosevelt hadn't acted there would have been a backlash from the Black community.

The treatment of Blacks (and others) had lent the Japanese and Germans a lot of propoganda material so I've given the US diplomatic penalties or bonuses depending on what they choose. I've also assumed that manpower will increase if Roosevelt signs the order due to factory workers now able to be replaced by Black labor.

Here is the event, if you think it is appropriate for CORE. (US needs plenty of dissent raising events imo)


################################################################
#The Crusade for Democracy at Home: USA#
#By: Ming #
#Source: "Double Victory" by Ronald Takaki#
################################################################


event = {
id = ?????
trigger = {
atwar = {yes}
government = {democratic}
}

random = no
country = USA

name = "Blitz the Color Line"
desc = "Hit twice as hard by the Great Depression and almost completely ignored by the New Deal, African Americans hoped to benefit from the high paying boom in war industries as America became the 'Arsenal of Democracy' during the 1940s. Unfortunately, 75% of all war industries refused to hire Blacks to any position and another 15% only hired janitors and menial laborers. Frustrated by the refusal of defense corporations to hire Black workers, the NAACP demanded action from the Federal government. The Union of Black Porters leader A. Phillip Randolph organized a mass protest and march on Washington to involve 100,000 African Americans. Alarmed by the threat to national image and the crusade for his 'Four Freedoms' U.S. President Roosevelt met with Randolph and other civil rights leaders two weeks before the scheduled date of the protest. When Roosevelt asked what he should do in order to stop the march, Randolph demanded an Executive Order outlawing discrimination of any kind in war industry hiring practices."
style = 0

date = { day = 1 month = december year = 1941 }
offset = 150
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1947 }

action_a = {
name = "Agree to Negro demands and sign Executive Order 8802." #Historically, Roosevelt signed the order a week later.#
command = {type = dissent value = 3}
command = {type = influence value = 1}
command = {type = manpowerpool = 25}
}
}

action_b = {
name="Counter Offer: Urge corporations to stop discrimination." #The administration was leery of forcing integration on Corporate America.#
command = {type = dissent value = 1}
command = {type = influence value = -1}
}

action_c = {
name="You can't threaten this country during war! No deal!" #Roosevelt initially refused to negotiate until the march was called off.#
command = {type = dissent value = 5}
command = {type = influence value = -2}
}

}

 

[JRaup]

Some ideas for US events (mostly flavor):

1937: Hindenburg disaster, coupled with a German event

Chalrles Lindbergh visits Germany. Kind of like the random "artist/intellectual" events, but specific to US.

war time events could include things like "stars do their part" lowering dissent, increasing MP as the big stars enlist or were drafted. Cracking the Japanese naval codes (intell boost?). Mafia help to US military and intelligence. German saboteurs on Long Island.

Aid to China, AVG etc. war time assistance to China (Stillwell, etc), coupled with Chinese events.

Was the 36 Winter Olypics held in Lake Placid or was that 32?

 

[Steel]

How about including the formation of the OSS?

(13th June 1942) President Franklin D. Roosevelt signs a military order establishing the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) and naming William J. Donovan as its Director.

Intelligence and Special Ops really isn't my area (I'm a strategy and logistics man) so I hope somebody with interest in this could pick it up and maybe look at wider implications (ie Allied sabotage and intelligence operations).

 

[Generalisimo]

Originally posted by Steel
How about including the formation of the OSS?



Intelligence and Special Ops really isn't my area (I'm a strategy and logistics man) so I hope somebody with interest in this could pick it up and maybe look at wider implications (ie Allied sabotage and intelligence operations).

the problem is how to simulate it...
the same problem happened with the spies on SCH...

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Originally posted by Steel
How about including the formation of the OSS?



Intelligence and Special Ops really isn't my area (I'm a strategy and logistics man) so I hope somebody with interest in this could pick it up and maybe look at wider implications (ie Allied sabotage and intelligence operations).

In new techmod I've included uninvetable technology (9000 days of research, maybe I'll add some other restrictions) which raise use of supplies and fuel (attacks on the rail) and lower their suprise chance (partisan supporting attacks). It could be trigerred by the event (US or UK decides to support diversion, bam, German/Japan/Soviet () event giving them "rotten tech").

How do you like that?

Generalissimo@:
Thanks for the e-mail with Special Forces techs.

 

[Steel]

It's a smart idea, most other suggestions I've seen were lowering province infra & IC and resource reserves to represent partisan attacks but it would be a pain with all those constant event pop-ups.

Will you include a (researchable) Partisanjaeger tech as well to reduce some of the penalties?

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Originally posted by Steel
It's a smart idea, most other suggestions I've seen were lowering province infra & IC and resource reserves to represent partisan attacks but it would be a pain with all those constant event pop-ups.

Will you include a (researchable) Partisanjaeger tech as well to reduce some of the penalties?

Good idea - it could be some sort of developed Special Forces... ok, I have to think about this.

For now my main problems are random "unxpected discovery" and "steal technology" events. It would be extremely stupid to steal this tech or "accidently" research it. I would have to disable those...

 

[Steel]

Originally posted by Copper Nicus
For now my main problems are random "unxpected discovery" and "steal technology" events. It would be extremely stupid to steal this tech or "accidently" research it. I would have to disable those...

FWIW I use a "Gain 5 random techs" event for tech tree testing and I've never seen it enable a tech that wasn't researchable (ie you have to have all the pre-reqs). This should be quite easy to verify if you just delete all other techs and then trigger the random event a few times.

BTW, if you are using gain_tech command it seems it picks the first tech researchable in one category. When using multiple gain_tech in one event I found that (when there was only 1 category left but with 8+ techs researchable) it would give me the same tech 5 times.

 

[JRaup]

Originally posted by Generalisimo
the problem is how to simulate it...
the same problem happened with the spies on SCH...

I agree. And I see the same issue with Partisans, though I haven't looked at any of those events.
Some ideas though:
Partisans/Saboteurs should be a random event ofr an Allied country, and should be based on historical hot spots of such activity. Thus, for example, in Yugoslavia, you could have an OSS event that would cause IC/Infra/Resource hit to teh Germans if they haven't garrisoned the province(s). One game issue I do have is the Germans ability to strip everything except a screening force in France to invade the USSR. There's no need for them to garrison several divisions in Yugoslavia, Poland, or France, and they can use those divisions in Russia, as they couldn't historically.
The event should be a yes/no option, with a yes causing a loss of some supplies to fund the effort.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Originally posted by JRaup
I agree. And I see the same issue with Partisans, though I haven't looked at any of those events.
Some ideas though:
Partisans/Saboteurs should be a random event ofr an Allied country, and should be based on historical hot spots of such activity. Thus, for example, in Yugoslavia, you could have an OSS event that would cause IC/Infra/Resource hit to teh Germans if they haven't garrisoned the province(s). One game issue I do have is the Germans ability to strip everything except a screening force in France to invade the USSR. There's no need for them to garrison several divisions in Yugoslavia, Poland, or France, and they can use those divisions in Russia, as they couldn't historically.
The event should be a yes/no option, with a yes causing a loss of some supplies to fund the effort.

One thing doesn't mean, that we can't use both solutions. As I see it, resistance activity (in occupied Europe) consisted of:

1) industrial and work sabotage - Paradox took care of that (only 33% IC from annexed provs and 20% from occupied).

2) diversion - cuting supply lines, attacking outposts of occupant (thus making him to send more forces to garrison job).

3) big operations, like uprisings, supporting advancing troops and so on.

Diversion could be solved by the tech idea (higher supply and fuel use thanks to "every day" partisan attacks).

Big operations effects should be solved by events.

I suggest moving this discussion to Land Tech tread, since no serious partisan activity could be found in US (except Montana Militias maybe).

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Monroe Doctrine?

After some (over 10) Panama-observer games of CORE 0.2 I think that some sort of Monroe doctrine events are needed.

In 60% of games, Germany about 1941 were able to add to Axis Argentina. In many cases Paraguay also joined Axis soon after.
I'm not expert on US politics, but Axis on the Western Hemisphere would surely provoke USA to do something?

 

[Generalisimo]

Re: Monroe Doctrine?

Originally posted by Copper Nicus
After some (over 10) Panama-observer games of CORE 0.2 I think that some sort of Monroe doctrine events are needed.

In 60% of games, Germany about 1941 were able to add to Axis Argentina. In many cases Paraguay also joined Axis soon after.
I'm not expert on US politics, but Axis on the Western Hemisphere would surely provoke USA to do something?

like what?
a) declaring war against the south american country (so, war between axis & USA)
b) declaring war against axis
c) joining the allies

also, you have to be carefull with this kind of events, because you cannot identify the agressor, so, maybe Brazil invaded someone, but you think Brazil has been invaded and create a "nonsense event"....
I have thought a lot of times about how to implement the Monroe Doctrine, but i couldn't do it in any good way... there was always some flaws...

 

[MateDow]

Monroe Doctrine

Would it be possible to make an event triggered by the political leaning of nations? If Argentina (or other Western hemisphere nation) leans towards facism by X amount then US has the opportunity to flex their Monroe Doctrine muscles before the alliance is codified? Or possibly an event that would 'warn' Germany out of the west and change their DI priorities. Those are just my thoughts on how it would be nice if it worked. Reality isn't always as forgiving MDow

 

[Steel]

Re: Monroe Doctrine

Originally posted by MateDow
Would it be possible to make an event triggered by the political leaning of nations? If Argentina (or other Western hemisphere nation) leans towards facism by X amount then US has the opportunity to flex their Monroe Doctrine muscles before the alliance is codified? Or possibly an event that would 'warn' Germany out of the west and change their DI priorities. Those are just my thoughts on how it would be nice if it worked. Reality isn't always as forgiving MDow

Smart The main issue is that the event would only fire the first time this occurred, but it's perhaps quite acceptable as long as the change is big enough. It wouldn't be USA events but rather an event for each South/Central American nation checking it's own alignment and if it moves into the Fascist sphere then it would offer a choice of accepting US hegemony in the region (move back towards democracy) or embrace Germany's world order (move solidly to fascism).

We can also reduce this issue by removing some of the influence tags for Italy (which seems more active as an influencer than Germany).

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Re: Re: Monroe Doctrine

Originally posted by Steel

We can also reduce this issue by removing some of the influence tags for Italy (which seems more active as an influencer than Germany).

Yes, but it will result in stronger influence on the rest of the list. For now I lowered all starting DI pools of all main nations to 10, but to really balance it Allies should have current DI (about 25 at the start), and Germany, Italy and Japan about 10.

But I really like MDoW idea...

 

[MateDow]

More Monroe Doctrine

There should be some events in there for the US. The US had a habit of intervening in local politics throughout much of the early century. They landed troops to 'influence' local governments into taking their view of things. Look at the Veracruz incident and landing of troops in El Salvador. This could be one of those things. If some of the smaller Central American nations started getting to out of line with US politics, the US could land troops (have war declared) and puppet the government. If this could be done without a dissent hit that would be a good way of handling the Central American and Carribean countries. The South American countries are a little big to be such a bully with so a defferent solution would have to be found for them. Not to mention, it would give a US player something to do early in the game MDow

 

[Generalisimo]

Re: Re: Monroe Doctrine

Originally posted by Steel
Smart The main issue is that the event would only fire the first time this occurred, but it's perhaps quite acceptable as long as the change is big enough. It wouldn't be USA events but rather an event for each South/Central American nation checking it's own alignment and if it moves into the Fascist sphere then it would offer a choice of accepting US hegemony in the region (move back towards democracy) or embrace Germany's world order (move solidly to fascism).

We can also reduce this issue by removing some of the influence tags for Italy (which seems more active as an influencer than Germany).

that will bring Argentina EVEN MORE EASILLY to the axis...
we never had a good relation with USA, we had an embargo (by the USA) because of our "good relations" with the axis powers.
We have to use coal (from wood) for almost all our industry because of the inhability to buy oil on the world market ( )... (the local oil production could not feed the entire industry).
Even the UK asked USA to remove the embargo because they thought the USA were too severe with us, and that was not the same that happened to other countries (specially europeans) that were in the same situation of Argentina.
So, if you made that event, option A for Argentina should be "embrace Germany's world order (move solidly to fascism)", so, the next day they are axis....

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Re: Re: Re: Monroe Doctrine

Originally posted by Generalisimo
So, if you made that event, option A for Argentina should be "embrace Germany's world order (move solidly to fascism)", so, the next day they are axis....

Anyone knows how was it handled in Federalist Mod? As far as I remember, there was a lot of South America events...