Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

C.O.R.E HOI - USSR

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Cop,

Does what you are talking about have to do with the following lines:

distrib_vs_ai = reactive
distrib_vs_human = reactive

I really don't understand what the difference between 'reactive' and 'even' is for the AI. Could you enlighten me?

-PK
 
Originally posted by Phil K
Cop,

Does what you are talking about have to do with the following lines:

distrib_vs_ai = reactive
distrib_vs_human = reactive

I really don't understand what the difference between 'reactive' and 'even' is for the AI. Could you enlighten me?

-PK
Click to expand...

Nope, I refer to the AI in general - if we try to make HoI AI defensive, it's automatically "reactive" - and IMO HoI AI's are much better in acting, then reacitng (it can be said about every game AI - after all, improvisation is the best mark of intellect). And long front lines makes those faults the most visible.

About those parameters - according to the Havard's site, :

"distrib_vs_ai = [even/reactive]
distrib_vs_human = [even/reactive]
These defines if the country should amass even forces against AI and human opponents, or act reactive.

Any clue what does that mean? :D IMO it means, that in "even" pattern AI will try to counter enemy moves deploing "mirror" forces on it's side of the front, while on "reactive" it will be more intersted in sending forces to the severly weakened parts of the front, then keeping perfect balance.

In both those variants, AI tries to move it's forces up and down a front, but in "even" pattern it's probably even worse.
 
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
IMO it means, that in "even" pattern AI will try to counter enemy moves deploing "mirror" forces on it's side of the front, while on "reactive" it will be more intersted in sending forces to the severly weakened parts of the front, then keeping perfect balance.

In both those variants, AI tries to move it's forces up and down a front, but in "even" pattern it's probably even worse.
Click to expand...


My understanding was that it determines if the Front AI maintains an even distribution of forces along the length of a front or changes deployments to maintain odds parity with detected enemy units. You'll probably find that even works better for China but reactive works better for Germany and USA (ie they have intel techs).
 
Originally posted by Steel
My understanding was that it determines if the Front AI maintains an even distribution of forces along the length of a front or changes deployments to maintain odds parity with detected enemy units. You'll probably find that even works better for China but reactive works better for Germany and USA (ie they have intel techs).
Click to expand...

Doesn't AI cheat on the detection?
It seems that it always know, how much forces it have to send - when it counts the odds, it has to have some info about strenght of the enemy and I hardly belive it's based on the detection... :D
 
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
Doesn't AI cheat on the detection?
It seems that it always know, how much forces it have to send - when it counts the odds, it has to have some info about strenght of the enemy and I hardly belive it's based on the detection... :D
Click to expand...


Well, it's impossible to test for land battles but AFAIK it doesn't cheat. Naval detection rules are certainly in effect for the AI.
 
USSR Economy - natural resources modification

Ok, after some research I've found info about the sites, which were main replacements for the lost coal and steel of the Ukraine. According to the info from Russian Coal Corp.:

"During the Great Patriotic War, the development of “Second Baku” (near Volga region, Southern Ural), large-scale investigation of gas deposits (based on these gas deposits, the first large gas pump-line Saratov-Moscow was constructed), development of numerous coal deposits (Ural, Vorkuta, Middle Asia, Kazakhstan) were initiated. The Norilsk copper-nickel factory was under construction and North-Ural bauxite deposits began to function. The production of lead reached its maximum (Altai, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan), Khaidarkan (Kyrgyzstan) has taken the place of mercury factory in Nikitovka, East Kounrad (Kazakhstan) has taken the place of wolfram factory in Tyrnauz."

According to that, I prepared small modification of SOV resource map. Basically metals (even rare) are in that approach represented by the steel (since rubber in the middle of Siberia seems a bit silly to me) and enregy sources like gas and coal are simply coal.

Modifications:

1530 Norilsk +20 coal, +20 steel (copper-nickel),
1397 Akmolinsk +20 coal
1250 Uralsk +30 coal
1855 Kamenskoje +20 coal
1375 Nizjnij Tagil +10 steel, +20 coal (Ural)
1371 Magnitogorsk +20 steel, +10 coal (Ural)
1436 Stalinabad +20 steel (lead)
1431 Frunze +20 steel (mercury)
1380 Vorkuta +20 coal
792 Tichvin +10 steel (bauxites)

Total: 140 coal, 100 steel

Province code:

Code: 
1530;Norilsk;;;;Arctic;mountain;;;20;;0;0;0;0;0;20;30;0;14550;306;14550;306;14550;306;14550;306;0;14481;240;2;14428;203;4;14440;218;7;14418;214;6;14612;151;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1

1397;Akmolinsk;;;;Arctic;desert;;;35;;0;0;0;0;0;0;47;0;12892;1581;12892;1581;12892;1581;12892;1581;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;12914;1571;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1

1250;Uralsk;;;;Muddy;clear;;;20;;0;0;1;1;0;0;30;0;11821;1508;11821;1508;11821;1508;11821;1508;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;11842;1489;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1

1855;Kamenskoje;;;;Arctic;mountain;;;20;;0;0;0;0;0;0;60;0;17283;295;17283;295;16943;577;17283;295;0;17172;180;4;17156;188;6;17136;204;2;-100;-100;0;17285;199;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1

1375;Nizjnij Tagil;;;;Arctic;forest;;;20;;0;0;0;0;0;10;20;0;12206;938;12206;938;12206;938;12206;938;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;12209;963;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1

1371;Magnitogorsk;;;;Arctic;hills;;;50;;0;0;3;2;0;20;10;0;12319;1414;12319;1414;12319;1414;12319;1414;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;12305;1425;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1

1436;Stalinabad;;;;Subarctic;mountain;;;20;;0;0;0;0;0;0;20;0;13261;2390;13261;2390;13261;2390;13261;2390;0;13173;2332;2;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;13236;2360;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1

1431;Frunze;;;;Arctic;mountain;;;20;;0;0;0;1;0;0;20;0;13471;2228;13471;2228;13471;2228;13471;2228;0;13359;2210;5;13371;2214;3;13371;2232;2;-100;-100;0;13470;2220;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1

1380;Vorkuta;;;;Arctic;mountain;;;10;;0;0;0;0;0;0;65;0;11927;257;11911;244;11952;279;11952;279;0;11861;260;7;11852;263;6;11851;275;5;11848;279;4;11888;354;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1

792;Tichvin;;;;Arctic;forest;;15;35;;0;0;2;1;0;10;0;0;10807;916;10814;891;10814;891;10814;891;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;-100;-100;0;10830;885;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1;-1

As you can see, change is not that significant - I don't want to give them to much resources, just make deals for rubber easier for the AI. Which leads us to the next part of the modifications, which is the addition of the second coal to rubber trade.

In the summary, SOV will be gaining:

1) 229 oil units a day (no change),

2) 820 steel units a day (previosly - 720),

3) 1402 coal units a day (previosly - 1262). After adding trades to the equation, SOV will be gaining 1402 - (200 + 450) = 752 coal, with serious chance for:

4) 250 rubber from the trades.


Code: 
trade = 
		{
	        id = { type = 12439 id = XXX } 
			country = sov
			from = coal
			to = rubber
			price = 3
			amount = 150
		}

All those changes should significantly help USSR hoard enough resources for the long war.

Any opinions?

PS. I know that the latest tests of 0.6 show, that SOV wins anyway, but IMO we should still add those changes. If it make them too strong, we will be able to limit the effect of GPW doctrine or develop GER AI more.
 
Looks good to me. Two points:

- Is that the *only* trade to add or do you also want the trades previously posted in this thread?

- We don't make resource changes in province.csv due to compatibility and integration issues. Can you add the correct numbers in the template below for inclusion in provinces.inc? Thanks.

province = { id = 1530 coal = X steel = X } # Norilsk
province = { id = 1397 coal = X } # Akmolinsk
province = { id = 1250 coal = X } # Uralsk
province = { id = 1855 coal = X } # Kamenskoje
province = { id = 1375 coal = X steel = X } # Nizjnij Tagil
province = { id = 1371 coal = X steel = X } # Magnitogorsk
province = { id = 1436 steel = X } # Stalinabad
province = { id = 1431 steel = X } # Frunze
province = { id = 1380 coal = X } # Vorkuta
province = { id = 792 steel = X } # Tichvin


BTW, about balance the overnight run was an Axis victory (contested though with USSR troops in Bulgaria and Hungary, also USSR controlling China and Indochina).
 
Originally posted by Steel
Looks good to me. Two points:

- Is that the *only* trade to add or do you also want the trades previously posted in this thread?
Click to expand...

Yup. This one is the only addition, previous suggestions were to much drain to the coal pool and AI started to do weird things to counter that.

Originally posted by Steel
- We don't make resource changes in province.csv due to compatibility and integration issues. Can you add the correct numbers in the template below for inclusion in provinces.inc? Thanks.
Click to expand...


Sure thing.

province = { id = 1530 coal = 20 steel = 20 } # Norilsk
province = { id = 1397 coal = 20 } # Akmolinsk
province = { id = 1250 coal = 30 } # Uralsk
province = { id = 1855 coal = 20 } # Kamenskoje
province = { id = 1375 coal = 20 steel = 10 } # Nizjnij Tagil
province = { id = 1371 coal = 10 steel = 20 } # Magnitogorsk
province = { id = 1436 steel = 20 } # Stalinabad
province = { id = 1431 steel = 20 } # Frunze
province = { id = 1380 coal = 20 } # Vorkuta
province = { id = 792 steel = 10 } # Tichvin

I understand those numbers will be simply added to the values in the province.csv file?
 
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
I understand those numbers will be simply added to the values in the province.csv file?
Click to expand...

Negative, it *replaces* the province.csv value. Otherwise I could have done it from your comments :)
 
Originally posted by Steel
Negative, it *replaces* the province.csv value. Otherwise I could have done it from your comments :)
Click to expand...

Here we go...


province = { id = 1530 coal = 20 steel = 20 } # Norilsk
province = { id = 1397 coal = 47 } # Akmolinsk
province = { id = 1250 coal = 30 } # Uralsk
province = { id = 1855 coal = 60 } # Kamenskoje
province = { id = 1375 coal = 20 steel = 10 } # Nizjnij Tagil
province = { id = 1371 coal = 10 steel = 20 } # Magnitogorsk
province = { id = 1436 steel = 20 } # Stalinabad
province = { id = 1431 steel = 20 } # Frunze
province = { id = 1380 coal = 65 } # Vorkuta
province = { id = 792 steel = 10 } # Tichvin
 
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
Here we go...


province = { id = 1530 coal = 20 steel = 20 } # Norilsk
province = { id = 1397 coal = 47 } # Akmolinsk
province = { id = 1250 coal = 30 } # Uralsk
province = { id = 1855 coal = 60 } # Kamenskoje
province = { id = 1375 coal = 20 steel = 10 } # Nizjnij Tagil
province = { id = 1371 coal = 10 steel = 20 } # Magnitogorsk
province = { id = 1436 steel = 20 } # Stalinabad
province = { id = 1431 steel = 20 } # Frunze
province = { id = 1380 coal = 65 } # Vorkuta
province = { id = 792 steel = 10 } # Tichvin
Click to expand...


Integrated with v0.6 (including the new coal to rubber trade)
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
Even Romania should be enough - in fact it's already scripted into "Bessarabia to USSR" event, but this usually not fire, since ROM gives those provinces earlier, due to the standard SOV demand. :(
Click to expand...


So we should just remove the SOV claim on Bessarabia and use addcore in the Bessarabia event, thus stopping ahistorical early claim and avoiding need for extra events.
 
Originally posted by Steel
So we should just remove the SOV claim on Bessarabia and use addcore in the Bessarabia event, thus stopping ahistorical early claim and avoiding need for extra events.
Click to expand...

Good idea - it will recreate historical way of play as well. Right now SOV get Bessarabia in 1939... :(

SOV get this claim in Mol-Rib pact, it has to be removed from there. :D
 
Ukrainian leaders

I just had, for the first time, the liberation of Ukraine event. Intrigued, I decided to let them be independent.

Imagine my surprise to find, once I took military control, that Ukraine had no leaders in the game!

Seems like, if we're going to have a Ukraine, we need Ukrainian leaders. Even 5-10 non-historical army leaders, 4-5 similar air leaders and the same number of admirals would help until someone can propose names of actual people who might theoretically have led.

I have access to a list of Soviet generals who were Ukrainian, but then we'd have to assume that they deserted from the USSR or were captured from it--the former a pretty iffy proposition--and take them away from the Soviet Union.

jkk
 
Re: Ukrainian leaders

Originally posted by jkkelley
I just had, for the first time, the liberation of Ukraine event. Intrigued, I decided to let them be independent.

Imagine my surprise to find, once I took military control, that Ukraine had no leaders in the game!

Seems like, if we're going to have a Ukraine, we need Ukrainian leaders. Even 5-10 non-historical army leaders, 4-5 similar air leaders and the same number of admirals would help until someone can propose names of actual people who might theoretically have led.

I have access to a list of Soviet generals who were Ukrainian, but then we'd have to assume that they deserted from the USSR or were captured from it--the former a pretty iffy proposition--and take them away from the Soviet Union.

jkk
Click to expand...


Yes, I know about this problem - and it's even more serious especially when you consider, that in 0.6 we have Yogi's pack (Russia, Bielorussia, Ukraine, Armenia, Georgia...). Maybe not in 0.6, but in later versions (patches?) we are gonna to prepare some events that will transfer some of the leaders to newly created nations.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back