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Originally posted by Generalisimo
remember the problem with "newly created units use the last model available" ... ;)
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I know, but Soviets got old BB's (Naval Programme doesn't give them ready construction, only pre-requisites). I'll script something when I finish my current work...
 
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
Got better idea - UK event about RN sharing their ships with RKKF. Historically, Royal Navy has seriously boosted Soviet fleet to support Murmansk convoys - among smaller units they even traded them battleship (old, but still...)!
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The units that the British sent to the Soviets at the end of the war were in lieu of Italian naval units that were surrendered to the allies. The Royal Soverign was transfered in place of the Gulio Ceasar I think. I know that the US sent PT boats to the Soviets as a part of lend lease, but I don't know of anything larger. MDow
 
This is a serious issue with the current diplomatic policies.

Japan does not fight with the Soviet Union. Nor does it garrision the borders near the SU. Vice versa with the SU.

They made a treaty, in which both sides agreed not to fight. This was the HUGE reason that the SU was able to beat off Germany. The entirety of the Moscow reinforcements in the winter of 1941 were of hardend Siberian troops from the Russo-Manchurian lines. (They left perhaps two divisions guarding the actually border of Korea/SU)

(Note, from now on, I refer to the SU as Russia)

Now, perhaps some sort of treaty could be made in the 1936 scenario, to give the player a choice of fighting. (As either Japan or Russia)

But the Computer should NEVER pick the fighting option (unless on V. Aggress)

Japan should not be able to go to war with Russia, and vice versia. Perhaps they could be given an event in which states "Reneg on the current pack? Or keep it" for both sides. Starting with Japan.







Event - Non-aggression pact with the SU
Japan

a) Stick with the non-aggression pact
effects= -5% dissent, unable to go to war with Russia at the start of conflict or when Japan joins alliance, prompts event Non-Aggression pact with the Japanese.

b) Reneg on the pack
effects= +10% dissent, -5 DI, goes to war when it joins alliance with Germany and Axis is at war with SU, or when Axis declares war on Russia (and Japan is already a member of axis), prompts event Reneging of the Non-agression pact with the Japanese.

c) Demand renegotiations and concessions or cancel pact.
effects= +5 dissent, demand Vladivostok, Ocha, Vanino, Ulunga, Dalnegorsk, Dalneretjensk, Chabarovsk, Spassk Dalnji, Nachodka,
prompts event renegotiations with the Japanese.



Russia

Event - Non-aggression pact with the Japanese

a) Stick with the non-aggression pact
effects= -5% dissent, unable to go to war with Japan at the start of conflict or when Japan joins alliance.

b) Reneg on the pack
effects= +10% dissent, -5 DI, goes to war when Japan joins alliance with Germany and Axis is at war with SU, or when Axis declares war on Russia (and Japan is already a member of axis), prompts event Reneging of the Non-aggression pact with the Russians.

Event- Reneging of the Non-aggression pact with the Japanese.
Effects= Notification of the fact that Japan has reneged on the Non-aggression pact, + 5 dissent.

Event- Renegotiations with the Japanese.

a) Deny demands and cancel pact
effects= - 5% dissent, prompts event Reneging of the Non-aggression pact with the Japanese

b) Accept demands
effects= +5 dissent, ceed demanded provinces. Prompt event Russia submits to our demands.

c) Declare war immediately in outrage.
effects= -10% dissent, prompts event WAR over demands.


Japan
Event- Reneging of the pact with the Russians
effect= +5% dissent, goes to war when Japan joins alliance with Germany and Axis is at war with SU, or when Axis declares war on Russia (and Japan is already a member of axis), prompts event Reneging of the Non-aggression pact with the Russians.

Event- Russia submits to our demands
effects= -10 dissent, gain ceeded provinces

Event- WAR over demands

a) Unfortunately, we will not back down. War it is.

effects= +5% dissent, immediate war between Japan and Com-Intern.

b) AVOID WAR AT ALL COSTS.
effects= +5 dissent, prompts event Japan backs down.

Russia-
Event- Japan backs down

a) Declare war anyways.
effects= +10 dissent, immediate war between Japan and Com-Intern.

b) Avoid war and accept Japanese stance.
effects= -5% dissent, Non-aggression pact is kept.

c) Avoid war, but reneg on the Non-aggression pact.
effects= prompt event Reneging of the Non-aggression pact with the Russians.


----------------------

Of course, if the computer was playing as both Russia and Japan, then the events would be A in both of the first events for Russia/Japan, i.e the non-aggression pact. If the player was controlling either japan or Russia, things could get interesting, especially depending upon aggression values.

Also, note that I haven't looked up the exact date of the pact. Yet these events can still be considered without it.
 
The issue of Russo-Japanese relations is a sticky one. we have events for the confrontations in the late 30's, Chiasan lake and Khalkin Ghol, and events to simulate the results of those incidents. As things stand, the Soviets and japanese only go to war if either: a. Either side gets real aggressive at Khalkin Ghol; b. Japan joins the Axis. Even if Japan joins the Axis, the Soviet front becomes more the providence of Manchukuo right now. We are working on all of this, but it's very difficult to get exact results given some of the limitations of the game engine. There are just some things we have no effective control over, and those aspects are guaranteed to muck with any solution we come up with. As things stand, it's a workable situation, despite the lack of truly historical situations.
 
Originally posted by The Apologist
In my experience, the Russo-Japanese War always kicks off with Japan joining the Axis. Perhaps we could add some + Communism alignment effects to the border incident events (especially if Japan comes off second best)?
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The problem with that, as far as I've seen, is that Japan will not go after the Western Allies without being a part of the Axis. They will go after the USA, but not the Allies. Of course, Japan won't go after the USA if at war with the Allies.
 
Originally posted by The Apologist
In my experience, the Russo-Japanese War always kicks off with Japan joining the Axis. Perhaps we could add some + Communism alignment effects to the border incident events (especially if Japan comes off second best)?
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Doesn't change anything. Regardless of alignment, as long as Japan is Fascist they will join the Axis if asked a couple of time. Even if an event is used to then remove them from war with the USSR they will re-join the war every time alliance membership changes (ie say if Bolivia joins the Axis). BTW, this has been discussed to death in the Far East thread so to avoid going over old arguments I suggest any interested party read that thread.
 
japan problems

Hi,

as all this is a big problem in HoI isn't it possible to ask Paradox to do something about it.

1. Allow Japan and SU to stay neutral
2. Make some changes to allow Japan to go more against allies.

I don't know how but this is one of the biggest problems encountered in this game. The fact that such important game limitations are there it just screws the Pacific War which is basically half of WW2.

By the way I know that in Stony Road an event creates the Asia Coprosperity Sphere and Japan has claims on Philippines, Dutch Indies, Malaya... Would this help Japan go south?

Bye.
 
I want to try to play against the SU with 0.63 but with militia off for the USSR, how do I do this, just set militia = yes , to militia = no in the tag = SOV savegame?
 
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Originally posted by hendriks
I want to try to play against the SU with 0.63 but with militia off for the USSR, how do I do this, just set militia = yes , to militia = non in the tag = SOV savegame?
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Yup!

Also you can try to add whole block of units activation/deactivation into sov.inc file (with modified value for militia).
 
Good question. Why don't you test it and post results?
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Okay I will.

Is there an event that simulates some militia divisions + fort increase when Stalingrad comes under siege?

I'm thinking about an event to give some militia to Leningrad when it is completely surrounded, at least they can not be put in the front_ai then.

Not figured out how to get supplies to Leningrad other then the creation of a convoy. For the moment I will force myself to go into the inc.file and add supplies when Leningrad is completely surrounded.
 
Originally posted by hendriks
Okay I will.

Thanks, I'm a bit lazy you know... :D

Originally posted by hendriks
Is there an event that simulates some militia divisions + fort increase when Stalingrad comes under siege?
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No. Good call, I'll think (and script something).

Originally posted by hendriks
I'm thinking about an event to give some militia to Leningrad when it is completely surrounded, at least they can not be put in the front_ai then.
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Seems like an idea, although supply problem remains... :(

Originally posted by hendriks
Not figured out how to get supplies to Leningrad other then the creation of a convoy. For the moment I will force myself to go into the inc.file and add supplies when Leningrad is completely surrounded.
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You will have to make it in the save game file, as inc files are used only at the start of scenario. But so far I did not found good solution...
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HI, just a little question on the way CORE simulates the productivity of the Soviet and Allies Industries.

Sov industry gets bigger but what about the cost of divisions. I know you have techs about less expensive planes and tanks (sorry can't remember the name right now). But Soviet Union and other countries (UK and USA) did transform completely their industry and asked their workers to do the job much quicker and better than in any other fascist country.

I don't know the figures exactly. But if you take the time and the cost of a T34 it's not the same in 1940 than in 1942.
I something already implemented about that or is it too strong against axis players?
Speed.
 
Originally posted by speed
HI, just a little question on the way CORE simulates the productivity of the Soviet and Allies Industries.

Sov industry gets bigger but what about the cost of divisions. I know you have techs about less expensive planes and tanks (sorry can't remember the name right now). But Soviet Union and other countries (UK and USA) did transform completely their industry and asked their workers to do the job much quicker and better than in any other fascist country.

I don't know the figures exactly. But if you take the time and the cost of a T34 it's not the same in 1940 than in 1942.
I something already implemented about that or is it too strong against axis players?
Speed.
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Well, it's as strong as it should against AI Germany and too weak against human player (any HoI veteran will easily win against them, maybe will have some work to do on the V.Hard/Hard CORE level).
The main problem is the Soviet AI switching too fast to the "panic mode" (hardcoded thing, not modable). While SOV got decent bonus in infantry/tank production, they waste time on production militia units (50% of units on early stage of Panic Mode).

And about historical aspect - people usually forget, that huge production of tanks in USSR during the war was conducted under extremely hard conditions - they have lost their tank factories:

1) in Kharkov (only 10% of machines were evacuated before the Germans came, and in case of personel percentage was even lower - machines were more important),

2) Leningrad (blocade),

3) Stalingrad (it was destroyed during the battle).

Plus they lost very important Donbas steel mills.

I belive that in case of less effective "Barbarossa" (often seen in HoI if Germany are controlled by the AI), the production would be much bigger, and what's more important, of much better quality (like using T-34M instead of T-34m.41).
 
OK. I think you're right. The most important and certainly most difficult is to create Hard Levels depending on which country the player chooses.

If you play Germany it's usually quite easy to beat UK and SU without any problem. That's why these countries need help, even if it's ahistorical. When I play UK I don't mind having a stronger Germany or stronger Italy. Especially Italy doesn't defend properly it's country.
For Japan I wouldn't mind a strong US AI...

Thanxx. Speed.
 
Originally posted by speed
OK. I think you're right. The most important and certainly most difficult is to create Hard Levels depending on which country the player chooses.

If you play Germany it's usually quite easy to beat UK and SU without any problem. That's why these countries need help, even if it's ahistorical. When I play UK I don't mind having a stronger Germany or stronger Italy. Especially Italy doesn't defend properly it's country.
For Japan I wouldn't mind a strong US AI...

Thanxx. Speed.
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Yup, exactly that's the point. But I think we can rise level of challenge not by streghtening AI, but by weakening player - see HARD C.O.R.E. for details. C.O.R.E. 0.7 should include some new elements filling AI-human player gap, especially on the matter of R&D and air warfare.

On the other hand, weak UK problem is unsolvable in that patch of HoI (12 naval units stack limit means death to the Royal Navy, and seriously twists the results of Pacific Warfare) - we have to wait for 1.06...
 
Soviet economic doldrums

A few pages back, during CORE 0.5 I mentioned the soviet economic collapse. I just installed 0.63 and have been running a few test games. I must commend all the CORE team on how much better the game is under 0.63.

In my current game as germany when I launched Barbarossa I had 202 Inf, 12 motor, 34 panzer and 9 mountain. I looked at the soviets and they only had 143 inf, 31 motor, 14 mech, 12 armor, and 2 mountain with a smattering of militia.

Being a bit concerned with this I save-loaded into the soviets to see what was up. Unlike in 0.5 the soviets had researched the basic conversions of coal-oil and oil:rubber. The soviets also had a 50k coal, 70k steel, 30k rubber and 70k oil surplus but less than 3k supplies. The soviets also only had 398 IC's with a whopping 30% dissent. Germany meanwhile had 1100 IC's with 7% dissent, darn those allies sinking my non existant resource convoys :rofl:, even with the lack of the resource collpase that the soviets experienced in core 0.5 the paltry IC total was enough to doom them. Well they would be doomed but I have a recurring CTD within a few days of launching Barbarossa.

Granted I went with no deals with the bolseviks and took all of poland, france, yugo, albania, hungary, romania, bulgaria low countries and had Frick as my minister of security with the full industrial tree researched. But less than 400IC for russia, after the 30% dissent hit, means certian doom.

As an assurance of this I ran a hands off as mexico and save-loaded into germany and russia right at 1 Jun 41. Now AI germany almost always chooses historic on the MR pact, and Vichy for france. So on 1 Jun 41 AI germany had western poland, northern france, low countries, yugo, czech, denmark and memel. USSR had eastern poland, bessarabia, LLE and finnish border hexes. The germans had 650ish IC's with 10% dissent and the soviets had 540ish with 15% dissent.

Obviously with AI vs AI the Russo-German war is much more balanced. Yet what happened to the industrial juggernaught of the soviets from CORE 0.5? If the soviets dont have 800ish IC's going into Barbarossa then they are in a world of hurt. When the germans take the high IC provinces from the soviets in the west the soviets run into the situation where they cant meet the CG and supply requirments and spiral into a collpase.

Also due to the poor, read horrible, handling of dissent the soviets have a terrible time putting up even the most feebile of resistance to the Heer when it hits them. Perhaps adding 2 trees for all the soviet events one with Not { soviet = ai} for all the ones currently and a tree with Not { soviet = player} with much lower dissent penalties. The cumulitive effect of lower IC and lower troop moral with high dissent kills the russians.

Sorry about the length of this.
 
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