Finns got already huge number of doctrines + some really good weapons. And some really good events (concerning both Winter and Continuation War), where they get even more...
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Finns got already huge number of doctrines + some really good weapons. And some really good events (concerning both Winter and Continuation War), where they get even more...
Re: Re: Hvy tanks and stuff
well, then add both? if U choose a Battalion it deactivates the Divison and vice versa? Shouldnt be much trouble to do.
Its not that there are plans to use the empty tank numbers for something else... (for those who might not understand, HOI has a limit of 38 tanktypes)
edit:..ah but if U open up Basic, imp and Adv. hvy again there should be a small limit to them since the limited number of possible tanks. But that is up for discusion then.
hmm want to add the 'Sturmtiger' too then? Germany had 6 of them and the allies treatend to use Chemical weapons if they didnt stop useing them because they wiped out a company with 1 shot ( 36cm Anti Sub mortar build on Tiger I frame)
well, then add both? if U choose a Battalion it deactivates the Divison and vice versa? Shouldnt be much trouble to do.
Its not that there are plans to use the empty tank numbers for something else... (for those who might not understand, HOI has a limit of 38 tanktypes)
edit:..ah but if U open up Basic, imp and Adv. hvy again there should be a small limit to them since the limited number of possible tanks. But that is up for discusion then.
hmm want to add the 'Sturmtiger' too then? Germany had 6 of them and the allies treatend to use Chemical weapons if they didnt stop useing them because they wiped out a company with 1 shot ( 36cm Anti Sub mortar build on Tiger I frame)
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The main problem in my opinion is that a heavy tank division can be easily considered an exploit...
This division should have a huge amount of SA,HA, and GD since a heavy tank was a formidable weapons platform. But in HoI, movement speed doesn't affect combat, so this division will not have the disavantage of the lack of manouvrability that it has in the real world...
This division should have a huge amount of SA,HA, and GD since a heavy tank was a formidable weapons platform. But in HoI, movement speed doesn't affect combat, so this division will not have the disavantage of the lack of manouvrability that it has in the real world...
Sounds good too but it will still be cool with a doctorine that simulates the finnish sissu.
Ahh, but if it cost you three times more than a comperable medium tank division but wasn't three times better, would it still be an exploit? In HoI numbers are often just as important as quality. You might have that heavy division, or if you are really fanatical, a heavy corps, but you could be facing three times the divisions that your opponent was able to build in a shorter period of time. And the will suffer a disadvantage if the war is going badly. Slow speed will allow them to be cut off and disolved easier as the front passes them by as they are retreating. MDow
Re: Re: Re: Hvy tanks and stuff
I hadn't heard that limit before. Right now we have four extra model slots open if that is the case (high number is 34). MDow
I hadn't heard that limit before. Right now we have four extra model slots open if that is the case (high number is 34). MDow
Re: Re: Re: Re: Hvy tanks and stuff
I read it somewhere in a techtree discustion, that 38 tank types are the limit that could be done by HOI. If I am wrong..sorry, but I am 90 % sure it is that way.
Atm if I build superhvy tank divisons I aproach it like that:
Building 30 tankettes+E for 7 IC for 89 days (Minister bonus included and Vehicle Mass production tech)
after that I upgrade those to Maus E100: IC cost 25 buildtime 108 days (aprox)
With 300+ IC in build I got 12to 15 done in 3.5 month
If U want to increase the buildcost too 60IC the upgradecost would be about 35 to 45 or more? not sure...
With tankbats that increase buildtime by 10 and 5 it takes a bit longer but only a couple days worth.
With that aproach I do not only save IC and buildtime but I also save up Manpower, aprox 1 per divison. (Superhvy is 7 right?)
Btw. with 'normal' divisions I do the same thing, the time is about the same but build cost are greatly reduced, otherwise I would not be able to pull out 60 to 120 tankdivisons til '42, depends on game.
Superhvy tanks 120T have speed 3, with impr. tracks 4, with +E 6 with Adv. light tank battalion: 7 and if I put in Minister with maneuver bonues its 8, not to bad..hu?
ah, I think Armored personal carrier adds 1 speed too so we end up with 9 and of course I forgot the 'Blitzkrieg (GER only)' with +1 = 10 speed.hmm
U do the thinking now
p.s. tank stats out of memory: 50 HA 42 SA 50 GD
ah..well one more thing: if U have 12 to 15 SH-Tank divisons in groups of 3 with 9 to 12 infantry divions along side how many SU troops U would need to break through that line...? and of course there are other tanks around too. (I never build more then 10 to 15 % SH)
A Human player could over come it, no big deal, but the AI with Imp Medium tanks? hmm
Bah I have to post 1 more thing that comes to mind: Tankette Divisons +E nearly fully upgraded: HA 11 SA 15 GD 25 Speed 17!(or more) AA 8 AD 10
I think if U only build those and like 150 of them without upgradeing that would be deadly as well.
editing: typos etc
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hvy tanks and stuff
I think that was something that MKSheppard (the creator of the TechMod that was the basis for CORE's) found during his early debugging.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Hvy tanks and stuff
We can always remove superheavies (if heavies are back, then can say goodbye to Maus divs), but I'm pretty sure that TANK MOD by Shepp (base of our tank tech tree) use much more models, like more tankettes, all the heavies, multiturreted tanks and so on...
I'm still not very fond on the idea of recreating heavy tank divs (even with cost like 40 IC), though...
We can always remove superheavies (if heavies are back, then can say goodbye to Maus divs), but I'm pretty sure that TANK MOD by Shepp (base of our tank tech tree) use much more models, like more tankettes, all the heavies, multiturreted tanks and so on...
I'm still not very fond on the idea of recreating heavy tank divs (even with cost like 40 IC), though...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hvy tanks and stuff
As I tryed to explain above they are to easy to get and in those number deadly as hell. Thats why I wanted to get ride of the SH tanks all together and add the SH-Battalion (mentioned a couple weeks ago)
U can easiely drive into 12 infantry divisions with 3 to 4 SH divs and dotn have to worry much. I hold off a 30 DIv attack with 6 of those dug in.
I still got Shepys techtree on the comp I can have a look how many he had in there.
U are right he had 59 tank entrys in Units/Panzer..hmm
I remember playing with that techtree and building the tanks I wanted with no problem too...
Now whats right?
I am confused now...
Maybe it has something to do with the Icons displayed? if U go over a limit U have all type 4 icons.
Somebody enlighten me in this case pls
edit: just doublechecked, Vanila HOI uses 38
StonyRoad Mod still uses 59
As I tryed to explain above they are to easy to get and in those number deadly as hell. Thats why I wanted to get ride of the SH tanks all together and add the SH-Battalion (mentioned a couple weeks ago)
U can easiely drive into 12 infantry divisions with 3 to 4 SH divs and dotn have to worry much. I hold off a 30 DIv attack with 6 of those dug in.
I still got Shepys techtree on the comp I can have a look how many he had in there.
U are right he had 59 tank entrys in Units/Panzer..hmm
I remember playing with that techtree and building the tanks I wanted with no problem too...
Now whats right?
I am confused now...
Maybe it has something to do with the Icons displayed? if U go over a limit U have all type 4 icons.
Somebody enlighten me in this case pls
edit: just doublechecked, Vanila HOI uses 38
StonyRoad Mod still uses 59
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hvy tanks and stuff
Yes, your example shows, how exploitable SH units can be - especially when you consider, that ALL upgrades are always added to ALL new units, so in fact those super-heavies divisions got heavy tank battalions included (sic!), as well as all the gadgets like improved tracks, applique armour, various AA guns and so on...
Not that post-war tanks or MBT's are less exploitable, but at least they come later.
Originally posted by Szun
As I tryed to explain above they are to easy to get and in those number deadly as hell. Thats why I wanted to get ride of the SH tanks all together and add the SH-Battalion (mentioned a couple weeks ago)
U can easiely drive into 12 infantry divisions with 3 to 4 SH divs and dotn have to worry much. I hold off a 30 DIv attack with 6 of those dug in.
I still got Shepys techtree on the comp I can have a look how many he had in there.
U are right he had 59 tank entrys in Units/Panzer..hmm
I remember playing with that techtree and building the tanks I wanted with no problem too...
Now whats right?
I am confused now...
Maybe it has something to do with the Icons displayed? if U go over a limit U have all type 4 icons.
Somebody enlighten me in this case pls
Yes, your example shows, how exploitable SH units can be - especially when you consider, that ALL upgrades are always added to ALL new units, so in fact those super-heavies divisions got heavy tank battalions included (sic!), as well as all the gadgets like improved tracks, applique armour, various AA guns and so on...
Not that post-war tanks or MBT's are less exploitable, but at least they come later.
by the time I am building SH tanks I have MBT researched...
not that much later
I explain why...
FIrst U have to research gear, engine and suspention to get to prototype, while in the same time U research Postwar(gold).
by the time U get super hvy tank +gun done U also have MBT(gold) nearly done, at least its not to far off that U cant build MBT tanks divisons befor U finished the 12 SH tankdivisons. Something like that.
With Adv. Electronic computer its all very close by.
I would love to see the havy and superhvy in battalions rather then in divisons. Its Historical, and if MDow wants to have hvy tanks with cost of 40 I still build 12 in upgrade mod...with little less cost.
I thought the Battalion addon was a extremly good idea and I still favor it.
Hvy Tank Divison: Cost 40 IC buildtime 360 days
command= deactive tech 'Hvy tank battalion'
not that much later
I explain why...
FIrst U have to research gear, engine and suspention to get to prototype, while in the same time U research Postwar(gold).
by the time U get super hvy tank +gun done U also have MBT(gold) nearly done, at least its not to far off that U cant build MBT tanks divisons befor U finished the 12 SH tankdivisons. Something like that.
With Adv. Electronic computer its all very close by.
I would love to see the havy and superhvy in battalions rather then in divisons. Its Historical, and if MDow wants to have hvy tanks with cost of 40 I still build 12 in upgrade mod...with little less cost.
I thought the Battalion addon was a extremly good idea and I still favor it.
Hvy Tank Divison: Cost 40 IC buildtime 360 days
command= deactive tech 'Hvy tank battalion'
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Originally posted by Szun
by the time I am building SH tanks I have MBT researched...
not that much later
I explain why...
FIrst U have to research gear, engine and suspention to get to prototype, while in the same time U research Postwar(gold).
by the time U get super hvy tank +gun done U also have MBT(gold) nearly done, at least its not to far off that U cant build MBT tanks divisons befor U finished the 12 SH tankdivisons. Something like that.
With Adv. Electronic computer its all very close by.
Yeah, late war research is really easy...
And to make things clear - in current CORE tech tree superheavies are left only because IMO historically those were total crap and adding them as the battalions to the normal div would in fact make those divs worse, not better. Maybe bonus to the defense (+3 SD), but at least -1 to the speed (I would give -2, though...), serious rise of fuel and supplies consumption, not that much rised HA and SA (+3 to both of them, but their armament was not that better then in normal vehicles and their lack of mobility would limit it even more), and higher IC/time costs (+3 IC, +30 days?).
And that would mean, that divs with superheavy batt would be not tha good choice...
U know ..I normaly dont even research Hvy tank battalions until very late in the game.
I'd rather have more speed in SU then 2 more GD with all those 34 infra provinces or less.
The Adv. Med tank 80 is good with Adv. tank tech and SP artys.
Only when I get to Postwar and MBT I start adding the extra battalions with speed reduction because those tanks have good speed so 1 or 2 less dont hurt to much.
I should add that I curently use no SH divs but changed it to a SH battalion with +1 SA +2 HA +2 GD -1 speed.
So I dont intend to research that for Panther 80 mm.
last edit here then I baile...
I favor Guderians expression: the 2nd weapon of the Tank is the engine...
USA not really..U need a lot of speed to cover the 5000 km to the west coast
I'd rather have more speed in SU then 2 more GD with all those 34 infra provinces or less.
The Adv. Med tank 80 is good with Adv. tank tech and SP artys.
Only when I get to Postwar and MBT I start adding the extra battalions with speed reduction because those tanks have good speed so 1 or 2 less dont hurt to much.
I should add that I curently use no SH divs but changed it to a SH battalion with +1 SA +2 HA +2 GD -1 speed.
So I dont intend to research that for Panther 80 mm.
last edit here then I baile...
I favor Guderians expression: the 2nd weapon of the Tank is the engine...
USA not really..U need a lot of speed to cover the 5000 km to the west coast
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That's exactly my point - when we go for super-havy batts instead of superheavy div, we would create the tech, that got almost no use. At least in Russia/China/Africa.
It might be useful during the USA invasions, though...
its usefull defensive..
if we had a choice if we could add it like AA brigade or so it would make most sense, but thats not Modable, unless ..hmm... witch one is least used?
just kidding that doesnt work out or milita end up with super hvy tank battalion addon .../shrug
I would add them earlier in the game if I played vs a Human enemy. I would build some without and leave some in pool until the addons are done tho, to have 2 type of speed tanks. I had to work out the details but it should be possible.
ok got go go now...
bye
if we had a choice if we could add it like AA brigade or so it would make most sense, but thats not Modable, unless ..hmm... witch one is least used?
just kidding that doesnt work out or milita end up with super hvy tank battalion addon .../shrug
I would add them earlier in the game if I played vs a Human enemy. I would build some without and leave some in pool until the addons are done tho, to have 2 type of speed tanks. I had to work out the details but it should be possible.
ok got go go now...
bye
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Heavies
Isn't the upgrade cost based on the construction cost of the unit? So if the initial price of a heavy division was three (or more) times the cost of a standard division without attachments, wouldn't the upgrade cost also be triple the cost?
I do agree with limiting it to one or the other. Make the player decide which way they want to go. If we have unlimited tank models, we could even make the divisions with heavy battalions a seperate model if need be. That would give the player the option if they want to have the heavy battalions or the faster unit. I also don't research heavy battalions unless I am looking at a defensive strugle because of the speed loss (but I am also arguing for light tank divisions as well).
Just because it doesn't make sense to us to build them, I can guarentee that there is some player out there that REALLY wants these heavy divisions in there. We can do some testing to insure that it won't be an exploit. But I know that many of us as players would be able to make that player pay for their slower armor units. MDow
Isn't the upgrade cost based on the construction cost of the unit? So if the initial price of a heavy division was three (or more) times the cost of a standard division without attachments, wouldn't the upgrade cost also be triple the cost?
I do agree with limiting it to one or the other. Make the player decide which way they want to go. If we have unlimited tank models, we could even make the divisions with heavy battalions a seperate model if need be. That would give the player the option if they want to have the heavy battalions or the faster unit. I also don't research heavy battalions unless I am looking at a defensive strugle because of the speed loss (but I am also arguing for light tank divisions as well).
Just because it doesn't make sense to us to build them, I can guarentee that there is some player out there that REALLY wants these heavy divisions in there. We can do some testing to insure that it won't be an exploit. But I know that many of us as players would be able to make that player pay for their slower armor units. MDow
Re: Heavies
Yes Upgrade cost are related to build cost and upgrade time is 50% of the normal buildtime regardless what Brigade U used. I upgraded a No-Brigade PzIB to Imp Med Tank 80 and it cost 9 with a build time of 86, just the same as if I upgrade a Tankette+E.
So I asume IC cost for upgrade is 2/3 cost and buildtime is half. leme look up the cost real quick of the Medium tank...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# 21 - Improved Medium Tank (80+mm)
model = {
cost = 14 # +4
buildtime = 190 # +10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yea my theory works out...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# 28 - Super-Heavy Tank (120+mm T)
model = {
cost = 37
buildtime = 240 # +60
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If U increase buildcost to say 60IC upgrade cost should be somewhere between 40 and 48 while the upgrade time is nearly 50% of the buildtime. I am unsure in what way minister bonus and Vehicle mass production are counted in, but it cant be much since I upgraded SHT120T with IC25 buildtime 108.
If U ask me U can put in all the tanks U want and we see how it works out with numbers and stats/cost/buildtime. I gladly test it and post my thoughts on it
Just keep in mind that the Icon change from type 2 to 3 is at Adv. Medium Tank 80mm, the 70mm long uses the 2nd sprite while the 80mm has the 3rd allready. (not totaly sure on that tho, I should look it up in a game)
Yes Upgrade cost are related to build cost and upgrade time is 50% of the normal buildtime regardless what Brigade U used. I upgraded a No-Brigade PzIB to Imp Med Tank 80 and it cost 9 with a build time of 86, just the same as if I upgrade a Tankette+E.
So I asume IC cost for upgrade is 2/3 cost and buildtime is half. leme look up the cost real quick of the Medium tank...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# 21 - Improved Medium Tank (80+mm)
model = {
cost = 14 # +4
buildtime = 190 # +10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yea my theory works out...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# 28 - Super-Heavy Tank (120+mm T)
model = {
cost = 37
buildtime = 240 # +60
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If U increase buildcost to say 60IC upgrade cost should be somewhere between 40 and 48 while the upgrade time is nearly 50% of the buildtime. I am unsure in what way minister bonus and Vehicle mass production are counted in, but it cant be much since I upgraded SHT120T with IC25 buildtime 108.
If U ask me U can put in all the tanks U want and we see how it works out with numbers and stats/cost/buildtime. I gladly test it and post my thoughts on it
Just keep in mind that the Icon change from type 2 to 3 is at Adv. Medium Tank 80mm, the 70mm long uses the 2nd sprite while the 80mm has the 3rd allready. (not totaly sure on that tho, I should look it up in a game)
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Tech Tree
I would like to take a spin on discussion away from the heavy tank issue, which I believe is secondary to trying to get a working tech tree that isn't limited in success to just the few top nations.
I was thinking about how could we develop a tech tree that would be accessible to most major nations (those with 100+ IC), but not result in those with loads of IC gaining techs that are classified as late war before the war actually begins.
Basically, we have to find a way for hich IC nations (those with 300+ IC), to be able to research a balanced tech tree yet not get substantially ahead of those nations who have high IC but not as much to spare on research (those with 100-200 IC). Basically the problem is that those nations with low IC levels can barely focus on 2-3 different techs, while those with high IC levels can easily spread out their tech research in many places, or can concentrate and get really far in a few critical techs. Basically those with loads of IC can get to the techs that lower supply costs, increase industry size, decrease research cost/time, etc. well before those that have lower IC levels, just increasing the disparity.
We must find a way to STOP major nations from 'cheating' and getting too far in technology in limited areas, as well as allowing for an affordable system that has low IC nations achieving sufficient research.
We all know that the 'Gold' techs, or 'even numbered' techs, like 2000, 2300, 2400, etc. cost a lot of IC, and take a lot of time, and are basically theoretical techs that open a new thought or military process. Currently they take about on average 180 days and 20 IC to research (doctrines are at about 300 days and 40 IC, virtually out of reach of low IC nations). High IC nations can easily focus on many of these 'Gold' techs as well as work on the applied tech that is opened up by these techs. Unfortunately, lower IC nations cannot afford to do both, so while they are researching applied theory (i.e., an actual Basic Medium Tank 40mm), a high IC nation is researching applied and theoretical (i.e., Improved Tank and Basic Medium Tank 40mm). So, in 1 year the low IC nation has a Basic Medium Tank 40mm, the high IC nation has the Basic Medium Tank 40mm, and Improved Tanks and is starting to research the Improved Medium Tank 70mm...
Usually it took about 2 or so years to develop a tank (irregardless of national IC) test theories based upon field testing of your own units, as well as testing of captured and foreign equivalents. However, this testing is almost constant. You are continually testing your own and other equipment throughout development of actual products. Basically, when you finally make something it really is obsolete. Lower IC nations are forced to stop all theoretical research and focus purely on producing the tech at hand.
What I propose is that we drastically cut the cost of these 'Gold' techs, to something almost completely insignificant, like 1 IC, but significantly increse the TIME it takes from about 180 days, to about 600-720 days. So, once you research "2300 # Basic Tanks", you immediately start on "2400 # Improved Tanks", as well as start researching the requirements for the applied part of the Basic Tank technology, that being a basic tank. This would be done by both High and Low IC nations, as both can afford it and to do practical tech research. The High IC nations will just be able to do more (i.e., get Basic Light Tank, Basic Medium Tank, Heavy Tank Battalion, Light Tank Destroyer 50mm, while the Low IC would get Basic Medium Tank and Light Tank Destroyer 40mm).
The low cost would keep every nation constantly researching these theories, and the high time would limit exploits by high IC nations. Since the high IC nations can afford the comparably expensive (20 IC) yet fairly short (100 Days) that the 'Gold' techs currently are, AND research applied techs at the same time, I say we stop this skipping ahead by drastically increasing the minimum time of researching the gold techs, but making the cost insignificant.
Some 'Gold' techs like "2500 # Tank Applications" shouldn't take 600 days to research, since they are mainly improvements on existing designs.
This will stop nations having MBT's by 1941, since the minimum time would be 8 years if they have 900 IC or 100 IC, it will be a minimum that almost every larger nation could afford. Wether or not they could afford all of the applied tech is another thing.
What I want to see is the major nations, like Germany, the US, and Russia sitting around with 100 or so surplus IC that CANNOT be used researching technology because there currently isn't anything to research at the moment! Or, they decide that "well, since I cannot develop tanks any further until I get Advanced Tanks, in about 200 days, I might as well do balanced research and devote some IC into the nuclear program.
Sure, the high IC nations will have more technology, but they cannot jump leaps and bounds ahead in one field like they currently can. They will just fill out their current techs better (i.e., develop a Basic Light Tank and Basic Medium Tank instead of just a Basic Medium Tank) than lower IC nations, but will not have technology significantly more advanced very fast in the game like they currently do.
To gain a 'Gold' tech, you currently spend 20 IC every day for 180 Days, for a total of 3600 IC used.
Under this new system a 'Gold' tech costs 720 (or so) IC for the total research (1 IC for 720 days). Even if the cost was doubled (2 IC for 720 days for 1440 total IC spent) it would still be less than half the total cost of the original version.
High IC nations can afford this high cost-low time, low IC nations cannot. With longer timespans, and very low costs, almost any nation can research Basic Tanks (and have a working tank) by 1939, and Improved Tanks (and have a working tank) by 1942, but nobody will have a Basic Tank by 1938 and an Improved Tank by 1939 (like you currently can in the original system). The main difference between a High IC nation and a Low IC nation in technology is that the Low IC nation will have good research (in both theoretical and applied) in 5-8 (hopefully) of the 14 tech areas, while High IC nations would have good research in 10-14 of the areas.
Low IC nations could afford the critical Industrial and Electronics techs, yet also keep up on a few of the important military techs and not be left behind. High IC nations won't find themselves with advanced technoogy early in the game, but instead of focussing on just a few tech areas, they have a much more balanced coverage.
I would like to take a spin on discussion away from the heavy tank issue, which I believe is secondary to trying to get a working tech tree that isn't limited in success to just the few top nations.
I was thinking about how could we develop a tech tree that would be accessible to most major nations (those with 100+ IC), but not result in those with loads of IC gaining techs that are classified as late war before the war actually begins.
Basically, we have to find a way for hich IC nations (those with 300+ IC), to be able to research a balanced tech tree yet not get substantially ahead of those nations who have high IC but not as much to spare on research (those with 100-200 IC). Basically the problem is that those nations with low IC levels can barely focus on 2-3 different techs, while those with high IC levels can easily spread out their tech research in many places, or can concentrate and get really far in a few critical techs. Basically those with loads of IC can get to the techs that lower supply costs, increase industry size, decrease research cost/time, etc. well before those that have lower IC levels, just increasing the disparity.
We must find a way to STOP major nations from 'cheating' and getting too far in technology in limited areas, as well as allowing for an affordable system that has low IC nations achieving sufficient research.
We all know that the 'Gold' techs, or 'even numbered' techs, like 2000, 2300, 2400, etc. cost a lot of IC, and take a lot of time, and are basically theoretical techs that open a new thought or military process. Currently they take about on average 180 days and 20 IC to research (doctrines are at about 300 days and 40 IC, virtually out of reach of low IC nations). High IC nations can easily focus on many of these 'Gold' techs as well as work on the applied tech that is opened up by these techs. Unfortunately, lower IC nations cannot afford to do both, so while they are researching applied theory (i.e., an actual Basic Medium Tank 40mm), a high IC nation is researching applied and theoretical (i.e., Improved Tank and Basic Medium Tank 40mm). So, in 1 year the low IC nation has a Basic Medium Tank 40mm, the high IC nation has the Basic Medium Tank 40mm, and Improved Tanks and is starting to research the Improved Medium Tank 70mm...
Usually it took about 2 or so years to develop a tank (irregardless of national IC) test theories based upon field testing of your own units, as well as testing of captured and foreign equivalents. However, this testing is almost constant. You are continually testing your own and other equipment throughout development of actual products. Basically, when you finally make something it really is obsolete. Lower IC nations are forced to stop all theoretical research and focus purely on producing the tech at hand.
What I propose is that we drastically cut the cost of these 'Gold' techs, to something almost completely insignificant, like 1 IC, but significantly increse the TIME it takes from about 180 days, to about 600-720 days. So, once you research "2300 # Basic Tanks", you immediately start on "2400 # Improved Tanks", as well as start researching the requirements for the applied part of the Basic Tank technology, that being a basic tank. This would be done by both High and Low IC nations, as both can afford it and to do practical tech research. The High IC nations will just be able to do more (i.e., get Basic Light Tank, Basic Medium Tank, Heavy Tank Battalion, Light Tank Destroyer 50mm, while the Low IC would get Basic Medium Tank and Light Tank Destroyer 40mm).
The low cost would keep every nation constantly researching these theories, and the high time would limit exploits by high IC nations. Since the high IC nations can afford the comparably expensive (20 IC) yet fairly short (100 Days) that the 'Gold' techs currently are, AND research applied techs at the same time, I say we stop this skipping ahead by drastically increasing the minimum time of researching the gold techs, but making the cost insignificant.
Some 'Gold' techs like "2500 # Tank Applications" shouldn't take 600 days to research, since they are mainly improvements on existing designs.
This will stop nations having MBT's by 1941, since the minimum time would be 8 years if they have 900 IC or 100 IC, it will be a minimum that almost every larger nation could afford. Wether or not they could afford all of the applied tech is another thing.
What I want to see is the major nations, like Germany, the US, and Russia sitting around with 100 or so surplus IC that CANNOT be used researching technology because there currently isn't anything to research at the moment! Or, they decide that "well, since I cannot develop tanks any further until I get Advanced Tanks, in about 200 days, I might as well do balanced research and devote some IC into the nuclear program.
Sure, the high IC nations will have more technology, but they cannot jump leaps and bounds ahead in one field like they currently can. They will just fill out their current techs better (i.e., develop a Basic Light Tank and Basic Medium Tank instead of just a Basic Medium Tank) than lower IC nations, but will not have technology significantly more advanced very fast in the game like they currently do.
To gain a 'Gold' tech, you currently spend 20 IC every day for 180 Days, for a total of 3600 IC used.
Under this new system a 'Gold' tech costs 720 (or so) IC for the total research (1 IC for 720 days). Even if the cost was doubled (2 IC for 720 days for 1440 total IC spent) it would still be less than half the total cost of the original version.
High IC nations can afford this high cost-low time, low IC nations cannot. With longer timespans, and very low costs, almost any nation can research Basic Tanks (and have a working tank) by 1939, and Improved Tanks (and have a working tank) by 1942, but nobody will have a Basic Tank by 1938 and an Improved Tank by 1939 (like you currently can in the original system). The main difference between a High IC nation and a Low IC nation in technology is that the Low IC nation will have good research (in both theoretical and applied) in 5-8 (hopefully) of the 14 tech areas, while High IC nations would have good research in 10-14 of the areas.
Low IC nations could afford the critical Industrial and Electronics techs, yet also keep up on a few of the important military techs and not be left behind. High IC nations won't find themselves with advanced technoogy early in the game, but instead of focussing on just a few tech areas, they have a much more balanced coverage.
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