Adam Breit said:
One more minor "glitch"- I hate to give Barnius -20%tax to all of his provinces [due to no land connection] but on the other hand- I don't really feel like just giving up a province or two to give him a connection
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One more minor "glitch"- I hate to give Barnius -20%tax to all of his provinces [due to no land connection] but on the other hand- I don't really feel like just giving up a province or two to give him a connection
My impression was that BUR started off very strong but that didn't matter too much since it would either be split up by an event or fall apart due to rr. Just a question; what's wrong with letting things run their course? I'm sure Forzaa can keep BUR together for a long time and it would be kind of fun to see the disintegration of a nation. Who knows what will happen? BUR might survive or HOL might be created. I'm not saying this it the best solution, I'm just asking if there is anything that's bad with it?
England choose to not ally Brittany since she didn't want to get too involved on the continent with the WOTR going on etc. In retroperspective maybe this was a mistake? They were free for a long time in not in any way a natural ally to BUR but now she is in their alliance.
A crushed France and a revolting BUR, exciting!
A crushed France and a revolting BUR, exciting!
juv95hrn said:
Erm, I don't think Burgundy will just die, Juv, it is pretty powerfull.
I very much prefer letting things devolop without intervention than edit to contruct a "wanted" situation. A game will land on it's feet unless there is someone totally dominating the scene. Not really the case here..juv95hrn said:
Norrefeldt said:
Offcourse not ... But if they want to make a deal, I would be happy to edit it.
Norrefeldt said:
It may- but it is VERY dubious at this time.
The wisest for me, at this time, would be to crush France and hope the backlash from other countries isn't too bad. (neighbouring the nation that has Turenne, Davout and many other such interesting characters, whilst half your country is their core and/or culture, is a BAD idea, esp. if the monarch already expresses an interest..)
RE: "revolts are nice" -- no it's not, it just means I get to do nothing but squish rebels for 80 years, OR give up the richest part of my country...
ForzaA said:
You'll get a nice mix of a few French and Dutch leader methinks.
Especially when you sign a deal with france concerning the split of france into 2 sections.
I am empowered to advise all of Western Europe of my Archduke's feelings with regard to the Burgundy and France situation:ForzaA said:
1. Austria will not allow Burgundy to swallow France; we will willingly ally with England, Spain and France, and likely Denmark, to see that this does not happen.
2. France should be allowed to struggle to reconquer her natural lands. The Archduke would be plenty happy with a France that consists of the lands South and West of the Seine. A Burgundy which includes all lands between the Seine and the Rhine is acceptable.
3. When and If the lowlands people decide to revolt against the cruel overlordship of the Comte du Bourgogne, ideally there will have to be a choice between continuing play as the Comte, or switching play to the Staadtholder. After all, there is no reason not to allow Holland to form as expected; to reward the current player of Burgundy, there can be compensation, such as letting the Staadtholder take everything north of a certain point and then having the remaining provinces ramdomly decide (with decreasing degree of probability as you go south) to go with the Staadtholder or remain with the Burgundian dukedom.
After all, for all we know, England, France, Spain and Venice may solve the problem by removing any significant Burgundian territorial gains.
DSYoungEsq said:After all, for all we know, England, France, Spain and Venice may solve the problem by removing any significant Burgundian territorial gains.
I hardly took any provinces..... [how could I have known that that would be the straw that would break the camel's back
Someone else must've burdened it too much, must be you! ]
DSYoungEsq said:
Yes, exactly something like that is what I had in mind, because Burgundy can influence the the strength of Holland signifficantly. She can, for example, fortify Lowlands, build shipyards, DOW Portugal for maps... All with the intention to become Holland, possible a bit larger than usually.
Or she can let fortifications in Lowlands be destroyed and concentrate on remaining Burgundy and controlling the whole France. Probably than she should be simply edited as France, since there is no event for Burgundy to become France.
Anyway, there has to be a continuity Burgundy > France or Burgundy > Holland. Everything else would be wrong.
DSYoungEsq said:
France is happy to hear this kind of support. Burgundy was very hostile, first alone, than with her ally Brittany. Perhaps some more capable general in France could have done better, but King assessed France had no chance against that alliance and decentralised the country by releassing vassals. The intention was clear: increasse technology and come back later.
The situation is not changed. Burgundy and Brittany are in fact even stronger. So, it is up to them to decide what is to be done. Up to them and the rest of Europe.
King of France can only express his wishes, for he lacks the power to enforce anything.
- It is French wish the war Bourbonais-Hessen to end, after which Burbonais will be returned under the French protection as one province vassal.
- France will gradually re-annex her vassals (OOC: in relativelly short time, because apparently there is some sort of a bug giving more manpower than needed to the overlord; not that my intention was manpower from vassals, it was 99% for lower tech costs). It is not likely France will start with centralisation process before 1490 though.
- King of France would like European countries to press Burgundy and Brittany to dissolve their alliance. Than France could hope in the first stage to protect herself and her vassals from Brittany and later start returning what Brittany took from her under the protection of Burgundy.
Venice Wishes that France is divided into regions, each with there cores, The North, should be.
Proposal:
Burgundian (Dutch, French Culture)
-Some leaders that France has (but with lower stats)
-Some Explorers that France has.
-Cores on Its part.
France (Gealic, (Navarese?)French culture) ---> More Southern oriented.
-All French Leaders with full stats.
-All French Explorers.
-Cores on ALL of France.
Proposal:
Burgundian (Dutch, French Culture)
-Some leaders that France has (but with lower stats)
-Some Explorers that France has.
-Cores on Its part.
France (Gealic, (Navarese?)French culture) ---> More Southern oriented.
-All French Leaders with full stats.
-All French Explorers.
-Cores on ALL of France.
i think the cot in paris should move south , simulating the frence concentrating in south more also don't see why frence would suddently don't trade in there own lands and trade in paris even tho its enemy occupyd , burgundy has flandern that will grow if paris moves south to
Adam Smith said:Venice Wishes that France is divided into regions, each with there cores, The North, should be.
Proposal:
Burgundian (Dutch, French Culture)
-Some leaders that France has (but with lower stats)
-Some Explorers that France has.
-Cores on Its part.
France (Gealic, (Navarese?)French culture) ---> More Southern oriented.
-All French Leaders with full stats.
-All French Explorers.
-Cores on ALL of France.
i'd advise to change burgundy tag to something more apropriate if he looses burgundy itself
what bout flandern ?(ps:chek flemish explorers in dbfile)
It sure looks like all continental powers admit the English ownership over Calais. Maybe England should gain a CB shield there and the contenders drop theirs?
England sure would be willing to listen to the suggestions of the power advocating such a policy.
For now I think England like to leave things as they are.
England sure would be willing to listen to the suggestions of the power advocating such a policy.
For now I think England like to leave things as they are.
It would be acceptabel to me that france get into the game in a deal with Burgundy, where cores are transfered from FRA to BUR. After all, France has lost and should pay the winner Burgundy.
I see no reason Spain should pay for this debacle, in France gaining any culture only SPA has. Also a possible future BRA pays in a sense here, since BUR get's cores on future Prussian land (Kleves). This should be an affair between FRA and BUR. BUR coiuld then become something else with it's own leaders, FLA or HOL, but that shouldn't affect the deal for setting up France again.
I see no reason Spain should pay for this debacle, in France gaining any culture only SPA has. Also a possible future BRA pays in a sense here, since BUR get's cores on future Prussian land (Kleves). This should be an affair between FRA and BUR. BUR coiuld then become something else with it's own leaders, FLA or HOL, but that shouldn't affect the deal for setting up France again.
admiral drake said:
I think I should post the link to my proposal here too, for good measure
(I did suggest a CoT move)EDIT: here it is: http://www.slargos.se/forum/index.php?showtopic=433&view=findpost&p=3831
DSYoungEsq said:I am empowered to advise all of Western Europe of my Archduke's feelings with regard to the Burgundy and France situation:
1. Austria will not allow Burgundy to swallow France; we will willingly ally with England, Spain and France, and likely Denmark, to see that this does not happen.
2. France should be allowed to struggle to reconquer her natural lands. The Archduke would be plenty happy with a France that consists of the lands South and West of the Seine. A Burgundy which includes all lands between the Seine and the Rhine is acceptable.
3. When and If the lowlands people decide to revolt against the cruel overlordship of the Comte du Bourgogne, ideally there will have to be a choice between continuing play as the Comte, or switching play to the Staadtholder. After all, there is no reason not to allow Holland to form as expected; to reward the current player of Burgundy, there can be compensation, such as letting the Staadtholder take everything north of a certain point and then having the remaining provinces ramdomly decide (with decreasing degree of probability as you go south) to go with the Staadtholder or remain with the Burgundian dukedom.
After all, for all we know, England, France, Spain and Venice may solve the problem by removing any significant Burgundian territorial gains.
This sounds like an incredibly hostile (towards Burgundy) post, unfortunately
If you want a Burgundy that bends over to France and releases the Netherlands, let it be AI- it can handle doing that.
I have won ONE little war with France, that I didn't even start, and I'm already seen as "unerwunscht"