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Chill 1; Easy And Simple. (Normal and Relaxed players only, RP encouraged)

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DSYoungEsq said:
I'm not sure you really can, Barnius. The perfect solution would be to show a graph over time for each nation, taken at, say five-year intervals, so that a "bad" year just 'blips' the graph. But any "snapshot" will inherently have difficulties. It is the progress over time that will matter; Austria's current difficulties with looted provinces and low stability won't be evident in the next between-session snapshot (at least, I fervently HOPE they wont :eek:o ), so that snapshot should produce a much more accurate picture of the Austrian economic picture.

Of course, if you want to do saves every 5 years, then extract the relevant data and build the graphs of that data as a function over time, be my guest. :D
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And exactly that I was doing apparently while you were writing this: great minds really do think alike it seems :)

I thought a lot about those concepts as they are implemented in EU2 game and how to track them on the yearly bases throughout the whole campaign.
Finally there is a detailed model for determination of the total yearly income available, but to perform it for the each year??!! :eek: No, even I wouldn’t do it :rofl: .

Naturally, the perfect solution would be the game to collect all the needed data on the yearly bases and saves it in the “eyr” section, like “navy”, “army”, … The categories would be: all sorts of budget incomes (census, taxes, trade, tolls, gold, …), manufactory research and stability increase, monarch research and stability increase and neighbour bonuses for each technology. I suppose also gifts should be taken into account as well as loans not returned.

But is it really needed? Because in the “eyr” there is something called wealth and it can be used as an economical measure of country greatness.
It is equal to (yearly) budget minus (yearly) military maintenance expenses. It is basically profit a company called Country X collects on the yearly bases. Military maintenance expenses can be regarded as sort of insurance for the company’ existence and naturally it decreases the wealth. The alternative to strong military is good diplomacy, but in this context clearly the border between good and foolishly risky diplomacy is rather thin :D .

There is also direct research and stability income (from manufactories, monarchs and neighbour bonus). Only monarch part is sort of predetermined for every company (country), while players decisions influence very much the rest two of them. Again, investments in military technologies mean slower growth of economy technologies and lower wealth in the future…

So, here it is, the economical measure of the greatness of our countries: cumulative inflation adjusted wealth in the picture below.

post-23-1104878067.jpg


…or average cumulative inflation adjusted income (averaged value from 1453 till the present) in the picture below.

post-23-1104878416.jpg


In the beginning, for 4 years, Ottoman Empire was the best nation, than Denmark took over and was leading for about a decade, and since than Flandres is the leader for over 1/3 of the century, with Ottomans and Denmark fighting for the second position. But wait, not any more, it is Spain who is the second now and will soon be the first, although it’s cumulative we are talking about here, so it is not at all easy to catch up with a country that used to lead for a long time.

Clearly, Spain is leading in yearly wealth for quite some time, and the evidence (although not with so nice lines) is inflation adjusted wealth in the picture below.

post-23-1104878820.jpg


EDIT:
Gifts are included in wealth, but loans are not, so if you wish to add to your country greatness, ask gifts, not loans (that you do or do not return).
 
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I think we should continue to discuss the vassalage protection rules. Right now we have:

rules of post 1 said:
-If you want to dow a vassal nation always dow the overlord.
(If the Vassal is a player himself, this rule doesn't apply)

-Players are not allowed to annex or take land from another players vassals without beating the overlord first and including it in peace terms.
(If the Vassal is a player himself, this rule doesn't apply)
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They are very vague and allows for England (the obvious example since they are an island, in some sense appliable for Portugal as well) to make a bunch of incredibly safe vassals in mainland Europe (lets say in HRE) and then protect themselves from being beaten with strong navies.
Even if Austria or Brandenburg can easily beat the crap out of the vassals and every army they land in the HRE, by the current rules they can never ever annex the vassals. Is that intended!?

Also, the rules say you have to arrange in the peace whether you will be able to annex a vassal or not. How should this be done if the overlord can only be forced to peace? You cannot ask for it in a peace deal. The implementation of the rules are VERY cloudy, and will most likely lead to future flamey discussions. Lets avoid that by making the rules clearer. The overlord should have to defend the vassals to be able to keep them. DSyoungEsq suggested that the vasssals only get protection if in an alliance, that would be a new rule and I leave that to the GM. I been working on a clarification of the current rules.

My suggestion:

* A player attacking another players vassal have to declare war on that vassal's overlord before or within a week of attacking the vassal. If a player's ally attack a vassal the player only have to DOW the overlord if he intends to use the opportunity for getting anything but indemnities or WP with the vassal.
* It's up to the overlord to defend his vassal. To avoid quick assaults no annexation can be made earlier than 6 months from the DOW on the overlord.
* If a vassal attack a player, a players alliance or one of his vassals the defending player does not have to DOW the overlord. The vassal cannot be annexed earlier than 6 months from the DOW of that vassal.
 
Norrefeldt said:
Even if Austria or Brandenburg can easily beat the crap out of the vassals and every army they land in the HRE, by the current rules they can never ever annex the vassals. Is that intended!?
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I agree. The only thing one has to fear is that the AI will annex one's far away vassals.

Maybe the respsonse time should be a bit longer though. 6 months isn't really long enough to react from a surprise attack. How about a year.

Another factor is that players have been releasing with the current rules in mind. Changing them in game might make previous decisions must unwise. I'm personally willing to pay that price though. Anyone annexing an English vassal will pay dearly without any flimsy rules to protect them. *ROAR!*
 
juv95hrn said:
Maybe the respsonse time should be a bit longer though. 6 months isn't really long enough to react from a surprise attack. How about a year?
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I'm fine with having the response time set to one year. That would allow for some recruiting to meet the attack.

juv95hrn said:
Another factor is that players have been releasing with the current rules in mind. Changing them in game might make previous decisions must unwise.
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True. However, if we go on playing with rules that obviously won't work, we will eventually run into a much worse situation, where two players are bitterly opponents in a vassalage matter that the rules cannot solve.

Perhaps we should give a one-time chance to annex a previously released vassal through editing? I'm against editing as you might know by now, but a change of the rules after game has started is extraordinary.
 
So if I understand the proposal by Norrefeldt, we would be scrapping the second rule (must defeat overlord to take land from a vassal), and replacing it with a rule that no peace deal with a vassal can occur until at least one year after the initiation of the war with the vassal. Thus, the rules would read:

-If you want to dow a vassal nation always dow the overlord.
(If the Vassal is a player himself, this rule doesn't apply)
(If the Vassal declares war, a human defender need not declare war upon the overlord)

- If you are at war with a vassal nation, you may not conclude a peace deal resulting in loss of territory by the vassal, or annexation of the vassal, until at least one year from the start of the war, or earlier with consent of the overlord.

Would this accurately state the amended rules proposed? I have no objection if it does. :)
 
That would be it, with the addition that if an ally declare war on anyones vassal, a player would have to DOW the overlord if he intends to take territory or annex. An uncommon special case (well, it has happen to both me and Venice this game), but I rather account for it as well, while we're at it.

In your first sentence, I would add "immediately".
 
I'm interested in playing an online game.

I have experience with playing EUII SP without any patch. I've never played online and am unaware of a lot of recent game aspects.


So if somebody needs a player and I might be suitable please contact me:

private message
icq: 254855719
 
Can i ask 1 more time whether my edits have been done cos i havnt had an answer. They were +2 offensive, +1 central, and lowering of BB. Please dont forget.
 
Tnx for posting them again :)

I would like you to post them in the Adamo fora, then they do not dissapear !
 
done
 
should be home in time, but I might just be a tad late- in which case I hope my brother can sub a bit.

And I'm assuming I'll remain Flandern with no events.. atleast leaves me an excuse when I end dead last :p
 
Announcing the Treaty of Gniezno

January 14, 1503:

An announcement was issued today in the City of Gniezno by the emmissaries of the Arch-Duke of Austria and the King of Poland that they have entered into a formal treaty ending the war between their alliances. The full text of the treaty follows:

We, Maximillian Habsburg, King of Germany, King of the Romans, Arch-Duke of Austria, Regent of Styria, Carinthia and Carniola, Regent of the Tyrol and Further Austria, and Aleksander Jagiello, King of Poland, Grand-Duke of Lithuania, make known to all who see that an agreement has been reached between us establishing peace. The terms of this peace are as follows:

1. Austria grants to the Margrave of Brandenburg the province of Anhalt, and on behalf of its ally and vassal, Bohemia, agrees that the Margrave shall take Silesia, possession of which by him we do not contest.

2. Austria shall make in payment of indemnity for the costs and damages of the war 300 ducats at once, with a further payment of 300 ducats to be made on or as near to January 1, 1513 as is possible, said payments to be made to the King of Poland to be distributed among his allies in accordance with generally established principles of law. By making these payments, Austria makes no admission of fault regarding the current conflict.

3. All members of the alliance among Poland, Lithuania, Hungary and Brandenburg, and all members of the alliance between Austria and Bohemia agree that under no event shall any of the nations involved in this war, including Austria, Bohemia, Brandenburg, Poland, Lithuania or Hungary declare a state of war upon another for the next 20 years. Should any allied vassal of such states make such declaration, the overlord shall at once rectify the matter by ending the war.

Agreed to this 14th day of January, in the year of the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ, 1503.
 
Treaty of Eger

Their most sovereign lords Maximillian Habsburg, King of Germany, King of the Romans, Arch-Duke of Austria, Regent of Styria, Carinthia and Carniola, Regent of the Tyrol and Further Austria, and Aleksander Jagiello, King of Poland, Grand-Duke of Lithuania, in agreement with Ladislaus Ulaszlo, King of Bohemia and Hungary, do announce the following:

In recognition of prior agreements to contract marriage between our two royal houses, which efforts have failed through no fault of either party, and with desire to cement the friendship between our two families, and understanding that certain possible outcomes might result in an unfortunate contest between our lieges and vassals with regard to possession and control of the throne and rule of Bohemia and Hungary, we do reach the following agreement:

1. Maximillian Habsburg agrees to relinquish all legal claims to the provinces of Moravia, Carpathia, Ruthenia and Maros, as well as Prussia and Kurland, which provinces are currently in the possession and under the rule of Ladislaus Ulaszlo, King of Hungary and Bohemia.

2. Aleksander Jagielloczyk agrees to relinquish all legal claims to the provinces of Erz, Bohemia, Sudeten, Pressburg, Magyar, Pest, Banat, Croatia, Dalmatia and any other provinces which might come under the control of Ladislaus Ulaszlo or his heirs.

3. Both parties agree that the throne of Bohemia and the throne of Hungary, in default of any heirs to either Ladislaus Ulaszlo or his heirs, shall be relinquished to Anne of Bohemia, or her husband, or her heirs. No claim to said throne shall be made by the rulers of Poland or Lithuania.

4. Each of the parties to this agreement will provide military aid and coordinate the defense of said countries Bohemia or Hungary should they come under attack from the heathen Ottoman Empire. Failure to do so shall result in this agreement being voided.

This agreement shall expire on the first day of January, in the year of the nativity of our Lord, Jesus Christ, 1550.
 
XXV-1531a.jpg
 
above treaty invalid i diploannexed hungary with no bad intentions and was gonna release it for event and provs to austria but dow cancelt that out , ottos got south i keep north and austria looses all

also austria can sen any army it wan'ts to hungary they get killed very quickly but only thing i ask is wp now or some gold as repairs later , i hope russia won't inerfere as i offert austria wp and stil offering it right now
 
header for Barnuis stats - England hyperteching :rofl:
 
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