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Christian Kingdom in Iberia

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Calipah said:
Im predictable, Im Muslim, and Im biased - dont blame me! :p

Still....I remember North Africa's state when everybody in Christendom was grabing a piece - I DONT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN TO AL-ANDALUS.

I love the Moors :(
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Off course I blame you - that's what the net is for anyway. :p
 
Calipah said:
I oppose a Christian state in Iberia - you have Portugal already - why do you want to give me a headache? No seriously, this seems to be a drive towards what actually happened - unless of course you give Cordoba +1 offensive and +1 quality to manage the Christians and players.
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Just as we have plans for how it will work if the Caliphate conquers various neighbours, it's only appropriate to consider what would happen when the Iberian catholics win against Cordoba. Which will always happen if its SP and one is playing Leon etc.

And we have discussed before some of the Cordoban response events. One could be that Murcia rejoins with the Sultante. Another is that Morocco ought to send troops. Another is that, as you say, an ai Cordoba would get a 'resistance' event, with slider changes as you have suggested.

I don't see the ai as succeeding with a reconquista vry often. Maybe one in a hundred games? They'd have to get very lucky, but it could happen. This is mostly for MP/SP where someone plays Leon, Porto, Asturias or Navarra.
 
Guys, it just isn't going to happen. Spend 30 minutes on the idea, but no more.

Leon isn't really a player nation, nor Oporto nor Navarra. Savoy maybe. The chances of a non-ai Spanish nation grabbing a major slice of Iberia is remote. And if it's an ai state, then you know what happens. They take 4 provinces, and settle for a White Peace, or one centre. And there are five catholic nations surrounding Cordoba, who are also fighting among themselves.

When this revised Crusade is over, the non-Spanish ai-nations release their Iberian provinces as Vassals.

Cordoba will remain the major force in Iberia. This Crusade is a minor blip in it's history. It's going to have a greater impact on the Reformation than on Cordoba.

Sorry to be so negative. By all means we should allow for the possibility of a Greater Catholic State in Iberia. But without the historical giants of Castille and Aragon, surely the dream of a greater "Hispanic" state tends to disappear with the length and dominance of the Islamic state?
 
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mikl said:
Guys, it just isn't going to happen. Spend 30 minutes on the idea, but no more.

Leon isn't really a player nation, nor Oporto nor Navarra. Savoy maybe. The chances of a non-ai Spanish nation grabbing a major slice of Iberia is remote. And if it's an ai state, then you know what happens. They take 4 provinces, and settle for a White Peace, or one centre. And there are five catholic nations surrounding Cordoba, who are also fighting among themselves.

When this revised Crusade is over, the non-Spanish ai-nations release their Iberian provinces as Vassals.

Cordoba will remain the major force in Iberia. This Crusade is a minor blip in it's history. It's going to have a greater impact on the Reformation than on Cordoba.

Sorry to be so negative. By all means we should allow for the possibility of a Greater Catholic State in Iberia. But without the historical giants of Castille and Aragon, surely the dream of a greater "Hispanic" state tends to disappear with the length and dominance of the Islamic state?
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Well, actually, I spent about 1 hour doing the coding, maybe a little longer if you count adding the flag versions to match the SPA tag.

I guess you've never played one of the Iberian minors. The whole point here is that we flesh out in Interregnum not just the 'majors' but the smaller countries too, like Vinland, Haudenosaunee, Armenia etc. Not just to give more umph to these smaller nations, not just to improve flavour and varied outcomes, but because people might want to play them. And not just in SP, but in MP as well. Don't you remember having fun playing those French minors in Vanilla? I know we never finished, but playing the small people who can get bigger is cool.

And, um, its my time, I'll spend it how I want. If I want to spend 20 hours properly developing Iberian minors, then I will, and I have only my wife to answer to.

All of the debate here is not about the existence of these events or what to do, it was initially just "what shall we name it" and has since become "why are you spending your time on it".

Maybe I should have spent the time it took to write this response on more cool events for Leon or Asturias ...
 
My apologies.

I have not expressed myself well. At all.


I mean only to say that:

1. Purely as a result of the Crusade, the creation of a larger state at the behest of the HRE or the Pope, based on centres owned by non-Spanish culture state is unlikely becuase they probably won't own/control enough to make it viable.

and

2. Since the muslims have been in Iberia for 400 years longer than IRL Iberia, any Spanish culture state would not neccesarily see a Greater Spanish Iberian State as an aspiration since the Ideal is 16 generation deader, but rather a Golden Christian Greater Leon Kingdom. This is just a supposition on my part, as I am not familiar with Spanish history.

Mea Culpa
 
Mike,

You are a very bad boy. I am telling mum. She already loves me more, now this will seal it.



OK, so, The Archduke already doesn't agree with what we are doing, so let's not walk on eggshells anymore hoping for his approval or otherwise.

Anyone out there mind if we just call it SPAIN and have done with it?

Matty
 
MattyG said:
Mike,

You are a very bad boy. I am telling mum. She already loves me more, now this will seal it.



OK, so, The Archduke already doesn't agree with what we are doing, so let's not walk on eggshells anymore hoping for his approval or otherwise.

Anyone out there mind if we just call it SPAIN and have done with it?

Matty
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That's what she lets you think... :)


I thought there was a trend towards naming things in the phoenetic version of the original language. So we say Koln and not Cologne. Surely it's therefore "Greater Christian Arrogant But Not Very Good In The World Cup Kingdom of Espana"

Or Espana for short.
 
With or without the tilde? (That's the name for the little squiggle above the n)
 
The game can support all accents. The only reason you don't always see them is that people are too lazy to use them. :p


Oh, and mikl, it's only an umlaut in German. The English word for it is 'diaresis'. (Shame there's no smiley for 'smug'.)
 
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and in Dutch it's a trema IIRC, but we still call it umlaut on English forums :p


I, personally, prefer Hispania. And I have once, as Oporto, conquered about the right amount for it to happen, thanks to the Cordobans offering me an alliance. So if even Oporto can do it, it seems a viable possibility.
 
Can i offer a different suggestion that might please you?

The ancient Kingdoms of Pamplona and Asturias existed when the Muslims had marched into France and fought the Frankish King...
It stands to reason that had the muslims been victorious in France or been able to fight to a stalemate (instead of losing thereby beginning the slow process of reconquisita) then Pamplona and Asturias would have continued being tiny nothern Vassals of Cordoba.

Perhaps even Asturias would have been gobbled up and Pamplona reduced to "Navarre"...

My suggestion is that you call the Iberian Kingdom, the Kingdom of Asturias...

If i remember correctly Asturias had links to both then Castillian and Basque peoples and so would legitimately be able to claim the mantle of rulership over both.
Perhaps allowing for a small vassal Kingdom of Portugal to emerge later in the event of Asturias becoming powerful.

This is a good historically legitimate name which should satisfy all parties I think.
Because the point of these alternate history mod is to make it alternate history; putting in a resurgent Kingdom of Spain (not matter which name you use Iberia or Hispania or Espana or Spain) defeats the purpose of this.

What do you think?
 
bombshellboi said:
Can i offer a different suggestion that might please you?

The ancient Kingdoms of Pamplona and Asturias existed when the Muslims had marched into France and fought the Frankish King...
It stands to reason that had the muslims been victorious in France or been able to fight to a stalemate (instead of losing thereby beginning the slow process of reconquisita) then Pamplona and Asturias would have continued being tiny nothern Vassals of Cordoba.

Perhaps even Asturias would have been gobbled up and Pamplona reduced to "Navarre"...

My suggestion is that you call the Iberian Kingdom, the Kingdom of Asturias...

If i remember correctly Asturias had links to both then Castillian and Basque peoples and so would legitimately be able to claim the mantle of rulership over both.
Perhaps allowing for a small vassal Kingdom of Portugal to emerge later in the event of Asturias becoming powerful.

This is a good historically legitimate name which should satisfy all parties I think.
Because the point of these alternate history mod is to make it alternate history; putting in a resurgent Kingdom of Spain (not matter which name you use Iberia or Hispania or Espana or Spain) defeats the purpose of this.

What do you think?
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Others have remerked on this historical perspective as well.

I like the Kingdom of Astrurias as well, the only problem here is that we have Asturias as a minor at game start. If Leon is the successful state in getting the triggers to become 'spain' then I can't see them changing their name to Asturias, especially if Asturias still exists at tht time.

The other problem we have is always the TAG thing. By making it one country that each of the Iberian minors can become (Porto, Portugal, Leon, Asturias, Navarra and Catalunya) I only need to craft one series of events, rather than have to reproduce them all in six different files.

If people really liked the Kingdom of Asturias as a name, what we would need to do is to rename the minor that is currently Asturias, making it Catilla instead, say.
 
MattyG said:
.....

If people really liked the Kingdom of Asturias as a name, what we would need to do is to rename the minor that is currently Asturias, making it Catilla instead, say.
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Perhaps there are two "Greater Catholic Spanish Nations". One is the Asturias noted above, and the other is one centered around Navarre, perhaps "Basque" or "Pyrenees" ( or "Archduchy of Aragon" :rofl: )

I still think we would be destroying what is charming about Interregnum if we wrote too many events which unnaturally cut down the Cordobans in Iberia. Having muslims just over the Pyrenees is a source of great stories right up until 1819....
 
mikl said:
Perhaps there are two "Greater Catholic Spanish Nations". One is the Asturias noted above, and the other is one centered around Navarre, perhaps "Basque" or "Pyrenees" ( or "Archduchy of Aragon" :rofl: )

I still think we would be destroying what is charming about Interregnum if we wrote too many events which unnaturally cut down the Cordobans in Iberia. Having muslims just over the Pyrenees is a source of great stories right up until 1819....
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Agreed agreed agreed.

Judge the files when you read them.

There are NO events for Asturias, Leon, Navarra or Catalunya (if it were to form) to get some advatage over Cordoba.

The events for Spain are the ... what happens in one of those countries got to size 7? Surely they would be a significant enough kingdom to claim the rest of Iberia?

And most of the events are repetitive culture-change events based on the players/ais choice on The Fate of the Moors in Iberia. Depending on your approach, you could be absolutely viscious and expel the moors, at enormous cost in terms of Infra, Trade, Population, Explorers and Badboy. But it does mean you can slowly turn all of Iberia to Iberian culture and Catholic.

So, all the stuff I have done for Spain (and matching events for Portugal) are about the post-formation period, rather than aids-to-formation.

I don't see it happening very often at all, except where a player is in control of one of the six that can form Espana or Portugal.
 
Also ...

The title of the event(s) for forming this Spain creature is

Hispaniae Catholicae Defensor

or Defendor of Catholic Iberia, translated into English.

Perhaps the name could be drawn from the title the Pope grants?
 
MattyG said:
Also ...

The title of the event(s) for forming this Spain creature is

Hispaniae Catholicae Defensor

or Defendor of Catholic Iberia, translated into English.

Perhaps the name could be drawn from the title the Pope grants?
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Got it, like it. When I see the file, I will put a link to it in the Papal States file.
 
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