Cities: Skylines II: Modding and Performance FAQ

[marcosvfg]

I would like to tell everyone at Paradox family that I am happy with the decision to create your own platform and not use Steam Workshop. I believe this will greatly benefit the community, allowing it to stay together, and I trust that you will continually improve the tool for us. I say this especially considering the example of other games that have done the same and work very well, like The Sims. If you are opening up to external mods, I hope it is through neutral platforms like Nexus Mods.

 

[ruffiØ]

Dropping this for anyone interested about the Mod Bounty Platform I have been working on. Since Paradox decided to announce things today, I will too!

Announcing the Mod Bounty Platform: Build My City

Hey everyone, My name is ruffiØ and I have been playing Cities Skylines since day one. Something that was a "dream game" turned into reality for me in 2015 and I never looked back. After sinking thousands of hours into this series and seeing...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[Tomaso Facchetti]

Whatever man I'm done with you. You can quite easily see how CS1 is only successful because of the workshop. If the workshop had not existed or had launched with an in house workshop it would have flopped.

I wouldn't say that Cities Skylines would have flopped without Steam Workshop. However, the desire for this would have reached its limits relatively soon.

 

[Shadow86]

I'm far less concerned about the modding portal than performance and optimization. It's a critical area that was almost completely ignored in C:S1, and no amount of mods could fix it.

If you commit to a heavy simulation, you need to commit to prioritizing optimization. At the very least, that means full hardware utilization, something the original failed at, miserably. Some mods helped, but there was just no way around how badly the game underutilized available resources. There's been at least nominal hints at better utilization in C:S2, but overall devs have been cryptic and content creators evasive on the subject. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

 

[UndeadScavenger]

That also makes them more directly responsible.

So what if I want to make an abortion clinic asset? A prison camp asset? A "Support Ukraine!" asset? A red light district asset pack? What about mods that use brands - Deutsche Bahn train set? Apple store? A crashed Mercedes wreck?

That, too. I remember there being a huge fuss about Deutsche Bahn ICE trainsets for Transport Fever, a couple of years back. Not really fond of seeing the return of that issue...

 

[thisisbossi]

While I do appreciate advance awareness of these two things (historically many games these days seem to just suffer through a brutal launch & "fix it in post"), this info nonetheless comes at the 11th hour before launch and for many is going to feel like icing on the cake, with how so far CS2 has been feeling more like CS1.2. From watching videos so far I'm still seeing...

• Still questionable traffic AI (I'm still seeing traffic divert en masse off empty main roads to cut through an out-of-the-way neighborhood, or all merging into the same traffic jam instead of taking the empty options beside them)
• Demand & resources seeming to develop in non-sensical ways
• A dearth of assets & little variation between those present (a row of trees immediately appears as the exact same tree over-and-over again. Even simply putting in a random rotation on the same tree asset would solve this)
• Landscapes that feel barren and desolate, and graphics that don't feel much of a "this is 10 years after the original game" improvement (some things even appear worse- looking at you, forestry & livestock industries!)
• Many of the features from CS1 DLCs seem to be excluded
• Many of the biggest requested things from CS1 (including some of the most popular mods) also seem to be excluded
• Few other novel things that feel like something that couldn't have just been another update to CS1 (though I'll credit that the build tools seem to be pretty decent!)

Performance
Paradox games have long had ambitious modeling behind them (that's why we play them!) and have for those same reasons long suffered from performance in the later-game. I get it, but a lot of folk may suddenly find themselves unable to play, and that's going to be aggravating -- setting you up for pending bad press and bad faith from many. I'm hopeful y'all will remain committed to optimizing & improving performance, but it can be hard to "hope" for things in games when for many: their initial hopes have already been dashed.

Mods
The game so far feels very unfinished, like it's going to lean heavily on mods. But having lots of mods can be a small nightmare to keep up-to-date & functioning without conflicts, especially as their creators come & go, people fork projects, and things get muddied over time. The more that can be brought into the Vanilla game: the better; but the Vanilla game seems so extremely lacking.

The somewhat brisk and late-coming remark about mod support is also going to cause a lot of alarm. Using a universal system to let the entire community access mods? Yeah, on paper that is a great move. But what people are going to want to know is how does Paradox Mods compare to Steam Workshop, which even with its issues so many already know so well:

• How easy will it be to find things they're looking for?
• Or to explore new mods for various topics?
• Or to find the most-subscribed; or how is Most Popular measured?
• Or to keep their current mods up-to-date, or to find forked mods when current ones stop being maintained?
• Or to be informed of, monitor, identify, & resolve conflicts & compatibility issues between mods?
• Or to create/add/maintain their own mods, etc?
• How nuanced will the ratings be, and how effective will they be at ranking things?
• Will we be able to see how many people are subscribed, or how ratings break down?
• How secure will each mod be?

Without any elaboration on these you're setting yourself up for a lot of bad flack only a week out from release.

And again, I'm not sure that these performance or mod issues need to necessarily be a bad thing if y'all can ensure they're improved & function, but with the growing concern over this game after two months of less-than-stellar reviews & gameplay videos: this post is just one more additional punch on the heels of a few rather poor Paradox launches in a row.

I hope I'm wrong about so many of these things, and the final product truly nails it, but what we've seen so far has been regretfully lackluster for the hopes that have grown over the past decade.

 

[MohawkWolfo98]

I’m trying to be impartial, so I went to the Paradox Mods site for Cities Skylines 1 (since we have 0 info on how 2 will work).

There is only 130 mods on there, and this is sorted by the highest, with there being 0 subscribers. Is the ratings systems actually working or is there no one actually using mods? I highly doubt it given the popularity of TMPE etc. And assuming the goodwill of Paradox endures and that’s its free mods, how can we import it into our cities at will? Is there a sorting system so we know where everything is, and how it will be organised?

Can you please give us more detail on this before release so we know what we are buying please?

 

[Denis0192]

The reason why Paradox Mods is better is that when all the mods are on one platform, available on both PC and console, this basically makes modding more accessible to those who would otherwise not have it.

You are completely wrong and underestimate how creators are used to working with steam workshops for almost a decade. Because of bad Paradox mod system working no one use it while it is available for CK3 and other Paradox games, I wonder why... I tell u what could happen next - most of CS creators will not use new system at all, as a result not only console players but all of us will lose that mod diversity from steam workshop which are created for CS1. The game will practically die in result.

 

[UndeadScavenger]

You are completely wrong and underestimate how creators are used to working with steam workshops for almost a decade. Because of bad Paradox mod system working no one use it while it is available for CK3 and other Paradox games, I wonder why... I tell u what could happen next - most of CS creators will not use new system at all, as a result not only console players but all of us will lose that mod diversity from steam workshop which are created for CS1.

The return of old style sideloading pages like Simtopolis or Nexus...

 

[Cymsdale]

I do think it's great that console players will have a way to get access to mods. So I think it's good that Paradox is creating a mod platform to support that. However, I believe that cutting off Steam Workshop will make the Paradox platform worse. Competition gives incentive to polish features that people want, maybe even find ways to do things better than what Steam does (there are plenty of good examples in this thread on the negatives of the Steam workshop).

But by cutting Steam out of the picture the incentive is not there. Why put in effort beyond "meh good enough" if it's the only option available?

 

[SlyCooperFan1]

I'm in two minds about the modding.

On one hand, we have to be honest, CS1's Steam Workshop is kind of a mess of duplicates (and triplicates, and quadruplets, and...), copyright violations, and a couple of bad actors. There isn't much in the way of moderation of the workshop, and the benefit of Asset Mods for consoles cannot be understated.

On the other hand, this could result in Paradox over-moderating the mod scene and limiting how extensively Code Mods can modify the game. I (and I assume most others) have no experience with Paradox Mods today for their other games like Surviving Mars, so maybe these fears have already been addressed, or maybe not.

This is going to be a pain point for the game for a while. We can only hope for the best but brace for the worst; I hope Paradox understands that the trust just isn't there right now and most of us are very skeptical of any ulterior motives they may have here.

 

[sgplaysgames]

You are completely wrong and underestimate how creators are used to working with steam workshops for almost a decade. Because of bad Paradox mod system working no one use it while it is available for CK3 and other Paradox games, I wonder why... I tell u what could happen next - most of CS creators will not use new system at all, as a result not only console players but all of us will lose that mod diversity from steam workshop which are created for CS1. The game will practically die in result.

Yeah I guess you have a point, we should at least make them allow the use of non-Paradox platforms, such as the Steam Workshop, because if this backlash is heard loud enough, maybe they will kowtow to our demands.

 

[Shadow86]

You are completely wrong and underestimate how creators are used to working with steam workshops for almost a decade. Because of bad Paradox mod system working no one use it while it is available for CK3 and other Paradox games, I wonder why... I tell u what could happen next - most of CS creators will not use new system at all, as a result not only console players but all of us will lose that mod diversity from steam workshop which are created for CS1. The game will practically die in result.

At least a portion of the criticism is speculative doomsaying. The reason the Paradox mod system is barely used in current games is that the Steam Workshop predates it by a considerable margin. Obviously switching platforms and abandoning a healthy ecosystem with years of growth behind it doesn't make much sense.

For a new game, having both options just fragments the modding scene, and doubles the work for modders.

Having just the Paradox mod platform is not necessarily bad, contrary to what the typical change-averse (Steam) gamer may think, unable to see beyond their own nose. However, the system has to be solid, and it's in Paradox's best interest to make it so. They know this game may well live or die based on its mod support.

Let's hope they're smart about this, and avoid another SimCity 2013 scenario.

 

[marcosvfg]

You are completely wrong and underestimate how creators are used to working with steam workshops for almost a decade. Because of bad Paradox mod system working no one use it while it is available for CK3 and other Paradox games, I wonder why... I tell u what could happen next - most of CS creators will not use new system at all, as a result not only console players but all of us will lose that mod diversity from steam workshop which are created for CS1. The game will practically die in result.

I am a content creator for CS1 and am looking forward to trying out Paradox's new tool. I haven't experienced it yet, so I won't pass judgment before I get to know it. I think these complaints about something that no one knows how it will be yet are somewhat toxic and counterproductive

 

[co_avanya]

Hi all! We'll have more information to come in the next few days but I just wanted to pop in and address a few questions.

The Steam Workshop made a lot of sense for us when we released Cities: Skylines as it was originally only released on Steam. But the Workshop is exclusive to Steam players, and with Cities: Skylines II we didn't want to limit modding to just players on Steam. Paradox Mods allows us to support modding on more platforms (keeping their individual limits in mind of course). We want everyone who wishes to mod their game to be able to do so.

You are mentioning assets mods and code mods. Does the modding beta refer to code or asset mods or both? Will asset modding be available from the beginning or also only soon after release?

The modding beta consists of code modders, asset creators, and map makers. Modding will unfortunately not be supported right at release, but we're working hard on bringing it to you as soon as possible after release. We'll keep you up-to-date on our plans.

I’m trying to be impartial, so I went to the Paradox Mods site for Cities Skylines 1 (since we have 0 info on how 2 will work).

There is only 130 mods on there, and this is sorted by the highest, with there being 0 subscribers. Is the ratings systems actually working or is there no one actually using mods? I highly doubt it given the popularity of TMPE etc. And assuming the goodwill of Paradox endures and that’s its free mods, how can we import it into our cities at will? Is there a sorting system so we know where everything is, and how it will be organised?

Can you please give us more detail on this before release so we know what we are buying please?

It's important to note that Paradox Mods was never implemented for the PC version of Cities: Skylines. It contains a selection of assets that were manually ported for Xbox as part of an experiment to provide mods on console. It's never been possible for players to upload to it, which is why it's so sparsely populated.

 

[marcosvfg]

At least a portion of the criticism is speculative doomsaying. The reason the Paradox mod system is barely used in current games is that the Steam Workshop predates it by a considerable margin. Obviously switching platforms and abandoning a healthy ecosystem with years of growth behind it doesn't make much sense.

For a new game, having both options just fragments the modding scene, and doubles the work for modders.

Having just the Paradox mod platform is not necessarily bad, contrary to what the typical change-averse (Steam) gamer may think, unable to see beyond their own nose. However, the system has to be solid, and it's in Paradox's best interest to make it so. They know this game may well live or die based on its mod support.

Let's hope they're smart about this, and avoid another SimCity 2013 scenario.

Steam Workshop served its purpose to make CS1 the best game of its genre in its generation, and I think because of that, people are worried about it not being present in CS2. However, I believe the real success of CS1 was actually the fact that the game was open and facilitated for mod creation. The game delivery platform is secondary. Stardew Valley became popular for the same reason and uses Nexus Mods. What's important is that the mod creation tool is easy, intuitive, and functional, like its predecessor.

 

[MohawkWolfo98]

I would like to tell everyone at Paradox family that I am happy with the decision to create your own platform and not use Steam Workshop. I believe this will greatly benefit the community, allowing it to stay together, and I trust that you will continually improve the tool for us. I say this especially considering the example of other games that have done the same and work very well, like The Sims. If you are opening up to external mods, I hope it is through neutral platforms like Nexus Mods.

With respect, the sims is definitely not one of the best ways to get mods. U have to search it up through multiple third party websites like modthesims and install the mods urself, and hope that you installed it correctly as the last time I played, it simply listed the .package that were active and not of the mod was actually actively.

The steam workshop is a very simple clock and subscribe, which we can then play to our hearts content in the launcher. It’s a working and functional system despite some flaws, why change it to a system which no one knows how to use? What is wrong with giving players more options to use?

 

[sbadkins4]

Hi all! We'll have more information to come in the next few days but I just wanted to pop in and address a few questions.

The Steam Workshop made a lot of sense for us when we released Cities: Skylines as it was originally only released on Steam. But the Workshop is exclusive to Steam players, and with Cities: Skylines II we didn't want to limit modding to just players on Steam. Paradox Mods allows us to support modding on more platforms (keeping their individual limits in mind of course). We want everyone who wishes to mod their game to be able to do so.


The modding beta consists of code modders, asset creators, and map makers. Modding will unfortunately not be supported right at release, but we're working hard on bringing it to you as soon as possible after release. We'll keep you up-to-date on our plans.



It's important to note that Paradox Mods was never implemented for the PC version of Cities: Skylines. It contains a selection of assets that were manually ported for Xbox as part of an experiment to provide mods on console. It's never been possible for players to upload to it, which is why it's so sparsely populated.

Wouldn’t the best way of making sure *everyone* that wants to mod is able to so be to have both Paradox Mods and the Workshop as options? How does limiting things to one channel improve access?

 

[sgplaysgames]

Hi all! We'll have more information to come in the next few days but I just wanted to pop in and address a few questions.

The Steam Workshop made a lot of sense for us when we released Cities: Skylines as it was originally only released on Steam. But the Workshop is exclusive to Steam players, and with Cities: Skylines II we didn't want to limit modding to just players on Steam. Paradox Mods allows us to support modding on more platforms (keeping their individual limits in mind of course). We want everyone who wishes to mod their game to be able to do so.


The modding beta consists of code modders, asset creators, and map makers. Modding will unfortunately not be supported right at release, but we're working hard on bringing it to you as soon as possible after release. We'll keep you up-to-date on our plans.



It's important to note that Paradox Mods was never implemented for the PC version of Cities: Skylines. It contains a selection of assets that were manually ported for Xbox as part of an experiment to provide mods on console. It's never been possible for players to upload to it, which is why it's so sparsely populated.

If the Steam Workshop was crucial to the success of Cities Skylines then why did you abandon it for the sequel? If your reason was to make mods available to everyone, then at least allow Steam users to continue using Steam Workshop in Cities Skylines II. I understand that you want a percentage of the profits made from modding, but modding was never supposed to be a for-profit venture. At least give Steam Workshop support in Cities Skylines II. PLEASE. Or else lots of people are going to start requesting refunds.

 

[MohawkWolfo98]

Hi all! We'll have more information to come in the next few days but I just wanted to pop in and address a few questions.

The Steam Workshop made a lot of sense for us when we released Cities: Skylines as it was originally only released on Steam. But the Workshop is exclusive to Steam players, and with Cities: Skylines II we didn't want to limit modding to just players on Steam. Paradox Mods allows us to support modding on more platforms (keeping their individual limits in mind of course). We want everyone who wishes to mod their game to be able to do so.


The modding beta consists of code modders, asset creators, and map makers. Modding will unfortunately not be supported right at release, but we're working hard on bringing it to you as soon as possible after release. We'll keep you up-to-date on our plans.



It's important to note that Paradox Mods was never implemented for the PC version of Cities: Skylines. It contains a selection of assets that were manually ported for Xbox as part of an experiment to provide mods on console. It's never been possible for players to upload to it, which is why it's so sparsely populated.

Thank you for your reply. What is wrong with allowing steam workshop access and allowing paradox mods as well? That way everyone can choose which platform they want to use for modding. And how will the new system work please so we know roughly what to expect, and when is the expected timeline for release apart from “soon”?

As @KingHenryVIII. mentions below, CK3 is able to do so, why can’t CS2?