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saskganesh

saskganesh

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i dont think this has been covered, so i'll post.

will CK follow in the EU tradition of informative but less-than- useful game manuals? or will they break truely new ground and create a book which actually tells you how to play the game?!?

i think that paradox should hire a technical writer (based on literacy displayed, probably many persons qualified on this board) to write the thing. would have a good layout that matches text to pix, relevant examples in text, good use of subheads, an index and full TOC would be useful features.

a good manual sure would have helped me with EU ... at the beginning.

i think a well organised and well written manual would also make translation easier, and also help cut translation costs down the road.

thoughts?
 
Or at least let me use the find option that you can do with computer ( Ctrl-F ) I don't care how they do it but that would be the best thing. Maybe like a manual as a txt file on the cd would help also.

:p
 
I think the idea of an index is good but I think that the manuals fore EU1 and 2 have ben good and have explaind the things I dident understand in a good way.
 
Personally, I found the EU2 manual to be fairly good with the exception of a couple things that were just plain wrong (mostly due to initial bugs that have largely been fixed).

The perfect manual as far as I'm concerned should be as follows:
  • Clear, concise instructions as to how to install the game.
  • General instructions for starting a game (both single and multi-player...preferably with as much info as possible to address likely MP connectivity issues.
  • A basic overview of the game concepts.
  • A basic description of how to do stuff and a general description of why you might want to.
  • Should not try to be a strategy guide. I like the enjoyment factor of figuring all of that stuff out myself and don't want a "walk through" manual. If I want to "cheat" and learn from someone else's experience, I'll come to this forum and read through all the FAQ's and GD strategy threads.

    I have a friend who bought Baldur's Gate about 3 months after it came out. He promptly (without playing more than an hour or something) went surfing for a walk-through, d/l it and printed it out, and proceeded to blitz his way throug the game. A week later he asked me why I said I'd enjoyed the game because he didn't find it very challenging. :rolleyes:
  • I like the historical background so pour it on.
  • Include "hints" or "tips" in the manual, but keep them vague enough that I can still do it the hard way. Don't give me precise formulas or "behind the scenes" insight into how the game is programmed.
  • An index or table of contents to help me quickly find major sections would be a definite bonus.
  • A glossary of game-specific terms with "links" the the relevant page in the manual would be nice.
  • A few appendices with major stuff in them for quick reference would be good...although, again, don't give away the game mechanics. Just give me the stuff that often appears in the drop-down tip/reminder boxes.
  • Make sure it is logically organised.
  • Make sure it is well-written.
  • My personal preference is for a printed manual, but I am perfectly willing to take it in pdf form if the publisher is willing to reflect this in the price of the game (as opposed to charging me full going game price for it).

That's pretty much my wish list for a good game manual. Make the game challenging and don't give away those "learning curve" secrets, but don't hamstring me and make it too frustrating to learn how to play.
 
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And a list of hotkeys. Incredible that you can implement hotkeys without notifying the user in the manual.

*eyeing my EU2 and HOI manuals*
 
Originally posted by Peter Ebbesen
And a list of hotkeys. Incredible that you can implement hotkeys without notifying the user in the manual.

*eyeing my EU2 and HOI manuals*
Click to expand...
Hotkeys were listed in the EU2 SF manual (pp.93) but contained a couple of errors. It also had a fairly usable table of contents. I really didn't find their manual all that bad to be honest. Maybe different publishers had significantly different manuals? Who is responsible for preparing them anyway (I know the publisher prints them, but who actually writes them?)
 
Originally posted by MrT
Who is responsible for preparing them anyway (I know the publisher prints them, but who actually writes them?)
Click to expand...

Based on my experience the text of the manual is usually written by someone developer side during the last third of production. Usually it's done very quickly, as there are many other important tasks at the time for the people who actually *know* how the game works at that time.

Then the text is shipped of the the main publishers who edit the text, lay it out, add graphics and arrange for printing/formatting. They may also arrange for translations, or leave that to regional publishers.

Manual writing is typically a low priority item. Further inaccuracies are created by the fact that the manual usually has to be sent to the printer before all the pertinent details are known.

Jacob
 
Originally posted by MrT
Who is responsible for preparing them anyway (I know the publisher prints them, but who actually writes them?)
Click to expand...
For HoI they hired a pro writer (this guy if I'm not mistaken...).

The main problem with a detailed manual for HoI was that features were changed/added all the way up to the final deadline, and way after the deadline of the manual...
 
Originally posted by Havard
For HoI they hired a pro writer (this guy if I'm not mistaken...).

The main problem with a detailed manual for HoI was that features were changed/added all the way up to the final deadline, and way after the deadline of the manual...
Click to expand...

think he also wrote eu2's, but making HoI's was difficult thing, as some changes were done in deadline and after.
 
I support the Index stuff...:)
 
I agree that EUII's manual wasn't too bad, considering all of the factors people have already described. As for the index issue, I think that manuals for games as complicated as these can really use them, but I don't know if we will see one. To really index something properly takes time, which they apparently don't have, or else you have to write the manual using special software that can help index it for you, which they probably don't have and don't really know how to use. The fact that the book will be appareing in many different languages also complicates the indexing a great deal. You can't just translate the index from one book because words will move between pages or change in other ways once the main body is translated.
 
Translation

Please, I only ask Paradox guys to be sure the manual translations will be as good as the English one. Or, at least, a fair one. The Portuguese EU2's manual (I mean the country. I bought the game in Portugal, because it started to be sold in Brazil only few weeks ago, I think) is a disaster!:mad:
 
A living rules manual would be a better way to go - latest version burnt with game - then leave it on the web site and update as needed. The pretty version in teh box perhaps should be the basics that let you play and shouldn't change plus philosophy.

A living rules may help with pregame awareness so that noone should say they didn't know what teh game was going to be like
 
Perhaps they should make a "Special Edition" with a encyclopedia--like book on the period, its states and the different families included in the game? It would be a nice touch...
 
ive done some thinking and rethinking

we want 2 different things, we want the "how to play the game".

and we want the "immerse me in historical richness and subtleties of the design".

we all learn by a mix of doing and theoretical instruction. many people also think we only learn by making mistakes.

so therefore, my perfect manual:

i would like to know how to play the game in 8 pages. how to start it, how to work around the interface, the basic, remedial game concepts, like how to move, how to reorganise armies, how to build a castle, how to board a ship (took me some time my first EU game, no kidding), how to declare war...

what i want is to get into the game within minutes of loading it on the harddrive.

then after i get thumped, i want to read the rest of the manual to learn how to play the game "well".

we also learn from teachers of course. and thats what these boards are all about. going much beyond what a manual is capable of. thanks.
 
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