CK2 Development Diary #10: Live long [yet futilely] and prosper

[Darkrenown]

Hello all, it’s time for another DD! Today I’m going to tell you about the Prosperity system, which is a <secret DLC> feature. Prosperity is rather like the opposite of Depopulation, which I have mentioned in previous DDs. In essence, provinces which have not been sieged, raided, or ravaged by disease for a long time will begin to Prosper, and gain certain bonuses- such as extra tax income and faster replenishment of levies.

To go into a bit more detail, provinces will have a hidden value which increases every year based on things like random chance, the terrain of the province, the ruler’s stewardship, if the realm is at war, and if the province is the ruler’s Crown Focus. “Crown Focus? What’s that?” you ask? Well hold on, I’ll get to that soon. When this value hits certain thresholds the province receives a modifier and the owner is informed that the province is Prospering. If things continue to go well, there are up to 3 levels of Prosperity to be gained. On the other hand, if the province is sieged, sacked by raiders, or infected by an epidemic, the Prosperity level will be reduced. If a province is Depopulated, all Prosperity is wiped out.

Various other factors can also affect the Prosperity value of a province, many decisions and events which involve building things, deals with merchants, holding feasts and tournaments, and that kind of thing now also have a Prosperity increasing effect, typically in your capital if another province isn’t involved. For the Norse, there’s also an event which can trigger when a fleet returns with loot which gives the capital a small bonus.

And finally, there’s your Crown Focus. Independent rulers who are Dukes or higher, and of sufficient size can set one of their Demesne provinces to be their Crown Focus - somewhere the ruler is devoting more of their attention to, which causes an additional yearly increase in Prosperity. Further, if your Crown Focus province has achieved the maximum level of Prosperity there are some new beneficial events which can fire there. The Crown Focus is also the cause of the crowns seen on the map in some earlier screenshots, although we’re thinking of showing only your own Crown Focus icon to avoid map clutter.

That's all for now, but next week I'll mention the new Narrative events <secret DLC> will add.

 

[Darkrenown]

Bananas, only slightly anachronistic. Largely only grown in the Middle East during this time period.

The pumpkins are brought by Aztec traders

 

[blackninja9939]

Looks really nice, my only concern is there seems to be an awful lot of 3d models now on the map for the provinces now. Seems like that could get very cluttered and very annoying quite quickly.

 

[Darkrenown]

But oh dear god those plates. I love the way the map and the cities, and the construction animations look in this game. And I get that we already have giant councilors walking around.
...
The rest of it though just looks amazing. I really really hope that there is something related to culture or religion conversion with the crown focus though.

I think we'll scale them down, but I find it useful to see them on the map. And yes, conversions can be triggered by your Crown Focus.

 

[Darkrenown]

Will it be more gaining to raid or siege provinces, which are prospering? In my eyes it has to add something the other way?

The loot bar on a province is based on the tax income there, and a Prospering province has a tax bonus, so there's more loot. Other than that, there's just the satisfaction of de-Prospering them.

 

[Darkrenown]

Feasts and tournaments will then give prosperity to your capital only.
Would it not be nice if those events were held in a province that is your Crown Focus?

An interesting idea. Not sure I want to change it, but I'll think about it.

 

[Darkrenown]

Neat icons next to raise levies in province tab.

Will that be Prosperity level and Health level?

Prosperity and Hospital level. Or Depopulation would be shown instead of Prosperity if that was present.

 

[Darkrenown]

I notice that the event you get when your province prospers adds another holding.

Firstly if your province stops being prosperous does that holding then disappear with whatever was built on it? If so why would one ever want to use said holding when a random disease can cull it?

Secondly isn't there some bonus for you if the prospering already has 7 holdings?

That is just one of the possible events, not the only one. It will of course not fire if there can be no more slots added. The slot isn't removed if it stops Prospering either.

@Darkrenown will the prosperity/depopulation have a decay rate?

Depopulation decays, Prosperity stays until something removes it.

Good afternoon, Paradoxplaza.

Can I publish this in DD's topic?

Sure.

 

[Moah]

Love it except for the giant ugly crown and table models.

just have it in the province screen when you click on the province. Maybe put the "this character is currently focusing on:" in the character screen as well, to help find the AI's.

The models can be deactivated in the graphics options, and both prosperity and crown focus are shown in the province view.

 

[Darkrenown]

Sorry if this has been already mentioned, but has there been anything said of trying to fix some of the game performance. As all these things for the mid-late game sound cool, but when the game slows down that much in the mid game, then I normally start a new game, so these features will be wasted.

We always work on optimizations, but additionally the more deadly plagues we've made clear out a lot of characters which has a nice effect on game speed.

@Darkrenown @Divine Does the scripted effect to add more holding slots that appear there also mean we will get a scripted effect to destroy holding slots? If the answer is no, can we get that added in?

It should. I have not used it for anything myself, but I'll try to test it out at some point to confirm.

Will raising levies affect prosperity? Like through harvest season?

Nope. Sensible idea, but we don't want to make levy management extra detailed.

Devs, you're going to add resources to provinces as well yes?

Nope.

I know a good deal when I see one! *Throws ducats at the DLC*

(On a side note this probably has been mentioned but, I do hope prosperity doesn't decrease because raiders are on your province for a few days before you can raise forces to destroy them, that would be sad panda face here)

On a (brighter) side note: Finally the Orkney islands will be the metropolises they were always supposed to be!!!

No, raiders need to actually sack a holding to have an effect, if they don't get through your walls they'll just loot the unguarded loot as normal.

This makes me think of Mali. Historically wealthy due to gold mines, but in the game nearly all wealth comes from cities so Mali is poor. Solution? Have Mali start off prosperous and have events that give then prosperity for doing nothing.

Event: We have gold mines
Result: prosperous!

Event: We still have gold mines
Result: prosperous!

Ha, I love that!

@Darkrenown
Will there be other ways to ways to increase prosperity, for say merchant republics? such as keeping peace in your realm or building roads?

Also any chance there will be ways to reflect more government offices and postions that existed in a merchant republic such as Venice or Genoa? or the complicated venetian doge election?

I have not added any special effects for Republics in particular (although the presence of a Trade post does increase the chance of Prosperity gain for everyone). I may add something if time permits, but no promises.

Will massive amounts of Incest prevent prosperity? I am looking at you, Zoroastrians.

Quite the contrary, my friend!

Cheers for the DD Darkrenown . Have to say, this upcoming patch/DLC combo is sounding might tasty. The idea of prosperity rewarding rulers for keeping their realm safe is a great one, and it sounds like a great implementation to boot. One thought - is there the potential for a very low stewardship ruler (or one with an appropriate trait) to lead to a drop in prosperity (or am I thinking too cruelly)?

Too cruel, bad rulers will increase it more slowly, which in turn means it's more likely something will go wrong before it reaches a useful value, but they won't actively decrease it.

Event per province, large empire = many provinces = event spam?

Shouldn't be, there is enough random in the system you should not see much spam even if you keep every province safe. If it becomes an issue size scaling can be added.

Once again a great developer diary. To me, this seems to be the most exciting expansion in a while, providing incentives to work for peace along with the more 'human' illness system being introduced. I feel this expansion is going to greatly improve my immersion into my realm. I also have to agree that the plates are... jarring to say the least.

I do have one question regarding this diary: will the extra holding be added instantly once the payment has been made or will they require time to be 'built'?

As Moah mentioned, you can disable the onmap graphics.

For your other thing, do note that it's a holding slot which is added, not a holding itself. As such it is added instantly, but you need to build a castle etc in it as normal to make use of it.

You should add flavor things like wandering barbers, triangle of love, and family meetings.

Adopting orphaned relatives would be nice as well.

We have added some similar flavory things, a future DD will talk about them

 

[Darkrenown]

No.

 

[blackninja9939]

You can add holdings. But you can't add/remove new holding slots.

Well in the event picture you can see it adds holding slots, Darkrenown also said a page back that the command is in for modding along with a remove holding slot command.

 

[Darkrenown]

As far as I am aware we have 7 names defined for every province. But yes, adding slots can increase any province to up to 7 slots rather than being limited to the max scripted.

Actually, you can technically add more than 7 slots, the UI just doesn't show them - so we don't do that.

 

[Darkrenown]

There's a san check where I used it via a check of how many holdings there are - there's no inbuilt san check though, if someone mods it to add crazy numbers they could crash it if they don't add their own san triggers too.

 

[Darkrenown]

No, more is more.

I thought you were joking about Madagascar before, but there'll be no Madagascar travels.

 

[Darkrenown]

I used "Madagascar" as a joke referring to this:

in order to point out that a total quarantine was possible, and it had colossal effects on the history of Italy (shaping Milan up to be the Big Bad for a century afterwards).

Yeah I get the pandemic reference, but this is the third thread you've brought it up so I was starting to think you were serious.

 

[Darkrenown]

Which is the bigger number five or one?

Which is kind of my point, one mechanic well made is better than five half assed ones and lately you've been adding a shit ton of half assed mechanics.

Thus less is more.

More is still more. However, if you want less, the answer is not to buy the optional DLC adding more. That's fine too!

 

[Darkrenown]

It was not buying Conclave? I guess you actually mean some 2.5 non-Conclave stuff though, and in that case the option is using the previous patch, modding or getting a mod to change what you dislike, or waiting for 2.6 and adjusting the game rules.

 

[blackninja9939]

It was not buying Conclave? I guess you actually mean some 2.5 non-Conclave stuff though, and in that case the option is using the previous patch, modding or getting a mod to change what you dislike, or waiting for 2.6 and adjusting the game rules.

☐ Not REKT
☑ REKT

 

[Darkrenown]

Well, it's a well known reference and it gets the point across!
But yes, I am serious. Luchino Visconti was known as an ambitious, cruel man, but it's shrewdness and complete lack of empathy ended up giving Milan a huge upper hand in Italy in the century after. As I reported the first time, the infected and their families were ordered to be walled inside their own houses, all the pests were to be killed, and cities closed. And it worked.

Well, I don't think you can claim for sure his methods were the only factor, but you do have some possibilities with the Seclusion system and taking the... pragmatic choices in related events.

I'm affraid "better mechanics or more mechanics" is not a choice. First, "Perfect" mechanics are overrated, a large number of "good enough" mechanics is the path to victory!

I don't know if you know, but I added that text for the HoI IV doctrine tree

Darkrenown, can you take a look at the event where someone from another realm comes by and stays with you and then becomes your friend? I was playing as one of the tribal characters in the middle of Finland and all of the sudden the Byzantine Empress passes through and decides to stay and becomes my friend.

It doesn't make sense for characters that far away and of that importance to be passing through certain places all of the sudden. It should be regional if anything.

Sure.

Fair enough. Any hints on when thats out? I want to play ck2 but some of the things added with 2.5 destroyed the majority of my enthusiasm.

Sadly, no. It won't be too soon though, you certainly have time to play some 2.4.x if the fancy takes you.

Not really because the game is changed to cater to the new mechanics, and the DLCs serve a purpose it's just that the way you are implementing them in loads of small non interacting mechanics, works worse than it could if you actually took the time to make the mechanics interact.

If more is more then why did Paradox go for minimalism when it came to Stellaris. Is it because the other games have become horribly convoluted because you keep adding mechanics without removing/replacing/integrating with older mechanics.

In a way you remind of the character death from Discworld, if you have read the book soul music I point you to the swing he built for his granddaughter, "one logical step forward at the time".

Look I get why you are doing it, because DLCs fund the patching and you feel that adding mechanic x sells better than revamping a certain number of mechanics. And it probably does but if you keep adding several dlcs with new mechanics every year then the game becomes bloated.

THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS JUST US.