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Cold War Tech Tree Extension Project

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Plans for next version:
The Soviet Union needs strengthening. The main part of the plan is to give the Warsaw Pact the IC it deserves. In the next version:
1) On a province by province basis, Germany (East and West) and the Warsaw Pact (Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Romania and Bulgaria) will have ALL the ic they had in the 44 scenario. This will allow them to sport:
Poland: 3 tech slots
Czechoslovakia: 2 tech slots
Hungary: 3 tech slots
Bulgaria: 3 tech slots
East Germany: 3 tech slots
Romania: 2 tech slots
West Germany will have 5 tech slots
The only catch is that the IC won't be created in Germany proper (East or West) until the nations are actually released. The massive rebuilding certainly took some resources and it seems to me that simulating it by depriving the occupiers of the German IC is a good way.
2) Occasional blueprint thefts will occur, routing through the USSR, DDR, Bulgaria and PRK
3) The Soviet Union will have 2 additional technologies
--Advanced Air Transport. They actually had the named model in prototype testing in August 1945 and it entered service in January 1946 with a change of engines. Since in HOI2 it takes several months to actually build a plane, they should have the technology in September 1945.
--Turbojet engine (the industrial tech). Since they had about 4 months plus to study German designs plus some BMW and Jumo engines in hand, it is inconceivable for them not to have this technology. This will allow them to research Practical Turbojet Engine.
4) Added blueprints for the Soviet Union (about 8) representing their haul from Germany for a slew of jet technologies. The West actually collaborated in this somewhat, even shipping some captured rockets to the USSR.
5) If Clement Atlee is in power (he is) then the British give the Soviets blueprints for Improved Turbojet Interceptor and Improved Turbojet Multirole once they get the technologies and the Soviets research the prerequisites. This represents the historical transfer of the Rolls Royce engine technology.
6) Addition of the tech teams suggested by danielshannon and others to the Soviet Union and DDR.
7) A naval base will be added in Rostock so East Germany doesn't waste its time researching Great War ships.
8) East Germany will also get a research mod increase, representing its historic infiltration of the West German government. In effect it will be able to research like a 4-slot power.
9) Some of the above benefits to the Warsaw Pact will be erased if there is a war.

danielshannon,
In truth the US, UK, France and a few other countries should have a peacetime IC mod, which will eventually need to be inserted into the inc files. But right now I'm just worried about technological advancement rate so that won't go in right away. Also Britain seems to me to be massively overpowered in IC.

Ringwraith_JP
Your comments on the Soviets are appreciated. At times Stalin was as brutal as you say and at times he was more accommodating, depending on his purpose at any given time. When the White Russians lost, they went into exile, and one of their more active hideouts was Manchukuo. In fact, one of their leaders finally decided to go over to Stalin and was rewarded for his faith in Stalin by being executed. I forgot his name. As for game relevance, the possibility of a divided Japan is one of the biggest reasons I have persisted in some of my other projects--it seems almost nobody else has a good Japanese surrender event which takes into account the very real possibility there was of a divided Japan. Take a look at my New Revolters mod the that.

Supervixians,
Glad to know you got it to work. Clarify something for me please--in order to get it to work did you have to ONLY remove from TRP the events creating nation-specific units (Waffen-SS or whatever) or did you have to find and remove events locking the ability to build tanks as well?
 
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Don't you think that the IC count is a bit disproportionate?

CZE should have 3 tech slots.
HUN should have 2 tech slots.
BUL should have 2 tech slots.
ROM should have 3 tech slots.
 
Nomonham, one thing you need to check is: during the Yalta arrangements Soviet Union was able to convince the remaining allies that they should be paid by Germany by seizing some of the heavy industry present in the East German territory and shipping it to the USSR. I'll check this information.

And, one more thing. One thing that bothers me with the vanilla's events for the VE day is that they create both Germanies immediately. That was not what really happened. They were under occupation for years before the republics were proclaimed. For years they discussed what to do with germany. Reunited the country under a neutral government, split it into two, they should be a member of the new formed NATO?

Another thing. If i'm not mistaken, the occupation of germany was not based on the ending front lines of the war. The occupation was planned long before (in Tehran if i'm not mistaken). Indeed i think that the allied troops had to RETREAT and give terrain to the soviets in northern Germany, near Denmark. Some events reflecting this would be nice. Having either of the sides refusing to accomplish the arrangements could surely turn the cold war into something really hot.
 
Nomohan, I just wanted to let you know that there is a spare tech component 'slot' that is not used by any tech or techteam in the normal game (or any mod that I am aware of): 'large_unit_focus'. I have modded it, and included it as a tech team skill for a couple of teams and techs (I created a seperate techskill for Jet Propulsion, as it always irked me how it got lumped under a 'Rocketry' skill), and it appears to work normally.

The name can be editted in \config\tech_names.csv. The icon (which is currently two stickman soldiers on a red background), can easily be changed with some minor graphic editting to the following file in paint:

\Doomsday\gfx\interface\tc_icons.bmp


I bring this up, as having a 'blank skill slot' might give you a bit more flexibility in differentiating the tech tree. For example, you mentioned you wanted to keep the Soviet's Computer research abilities limited: if you used the above spare slot to create a new 'Computers' skill, and didn't give the Soviets any teams with this new skill (or kept them at a low skill level), this might accomplish this, without having to limit their electronics/chemistry teams, which might inadvertantly penalise them in other areas.

The above is just an example though. You may wish to do something else with the spare skill slot: I am just trying to illustrate an option that you may not have been aware of, as I am really looking forward to this mod. :D
 
Also, one suggestion for the Secret Weapon tree: MIRV ICBMs. These were introduced in the late 1960s I think, so fall toward the latter end of the mod.


I would suggest that the tech grants an advanced V2 model, and possibly increase the strength of Nuclear Attacks (like the Fusion Bomb tech does, for example)
 
Tigey,
Thanks for the information. It might be in long range plans but there are more immediate issues.

Ringwraith_JP,
The Cold War scenario should be thought of as a prototype, whose main intent right now is to test the tech tree. In the setup option you get to choose whether to "Create Now" or "Wait for the historical dates" for Germany, Japan and Korea. For prototype testing this is necessary to make sure things work right. In the final version these will be strictly on the historical dates.

The starting date of the Cold War scenario is Sept 2, 1945, nearly 4 months after V-E day. It is assumed that any immediate disagreements over Europe have been ironed out. The control zones were pre-negotiated and not based on the battle lines at all. This scenario will assume upholding of the Yalta and Potsdam agreements. I think that disagreements about whether to proceed according to Yalta or not is appropriate in surrender events, but I'm assuming these decisions have already been made.

The USSR carted away IC from many of the locations it conquered. Plus the allied bombing destroyed a lot. I'm representing this as zero IC in all of Germany, to be restored upon DDR's and DFR's rebirth. The fact is that IC is needed in order for tech teams to research, and if the military output is too great this can always be factored out.

Crush3R
IC is based upon 44 scenario. It may be that the 44 scenario is inaccurate and I would have also thought the tech teams would come out as you say. But that's the way it is for now. The major issue in the next version is the ability of the Soviets to at least keep within striking distance of NATO. Also peacetime IC mods will be implemented so as to keep the game from slowing down after a few years.

I'm assembling the next version which should be out in a few days.
 
nomonhan said:
Tigey,
Thanks for the information. It might be in long range plans but there are more immediate issues.

Ringwraith_JP,
The Cold War scenario should be thought of as a prototype, whose main intent right now is to test the tech tree. In the setup option you get to choose whether to "Create Now" or "Wait for the historical dates" for Germany, Japan and Korea. For prototype testing this is necessary to make sure things work right. In the final version these will be strictly on the historical dates.

The starting date of the Cold War scenario is Sept 2, 1945, nearly 4 months after V-E day. It is assumed that any immediate disagreements over Europe have been ironed out. The control zones were pre-negotiated and not based on the battle lines at all. This scenario will assume upholding of the Yalta and Potsdam agreements. I think that disagreements about whether to proceed according to Yalta or not is appropriate in surrender events, but I'm assuming these decisions have already been made.

The USSR carted away IC from many of the locations it conquered. Plus the allied bombing destroyed a lot. I'm representing this as zero IC in all of Germany, to be restored upon DDR's and DFR's rebirth. The fact is that IC is needed in order for tech teams to research, and if the military output is too great this can always be factored out.
Click to expand...

Yup, i only inted to remember you that the division of germany is important to take into account the IC and tech slots available for each alliance. 3 years make a huge diference.
 
The Japanese Atomic bomb was never a serious possibility, and is not recognize as such in any scholarly cycles, they Japanese nuclear program mainly looked at the atom as an energy source (and for some as a way to keep brilliant young students out of the army), not as a weapon.

That been said, a Soviet invasion of northern Japan is pretty implausible, but hey, this is a game, not a simulation.
 
Crush3r said:
If you need any IC influencing events, check out the SovRoms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SovRoms
Click to expand...

Are you implying an effective increase in Romania's IC after 1956? Would you care to create and post an event?

Ringwraith_JP said:
Yup, i only inted to remember you that the division of germany is important to take into account the IC and tech slots available for each alliance. 3 years make a huge diference.
Click to expand...

To create the nations and ensure no bugs in nation release the option to create now is present. To test the tech tree, all nations should be created on their historical dates. For the two Germanys that was not until 1949. The best way to represent the Soviet Union's haul before that time is with blueprints. They did capture their own share of scientists, even including some members of the German atomic bomb project. I consider it important for the USSR to be able to get the MIG-15 in time for the Korean War--that's improved turbojet interceptor, and possibly improved turbojet multirole as well. Yugoslavia was temporarily part of the USSR alliance though I believe this broke up sometime between 1947 and 1949.
 
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EDIT: Never mind.

A quick suggestion: the Advandced MBT III and IV models for the DFR could be Leopard 1A1- and A2.
 
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nomonhan said:
Yugoslavia was temporarily part of the USSR alliance though I believe this broke up sometime between 1947 and 1949.
Click to expand...
I'll check on this one.

edit: Ok, that's what happened.

After the creation of the Marshall plan, when the communist countries were invited to join the plan (Czechoslovakia and Poland attended to the meetings), Stalin ordered all of his satellites to refuse the american help. As an alternative he created the Cominforn in September 1947, the soviet version of the Marshall Plan and ordered all the communist countries to join his plan rather than American's. Tito was not dependent of Stalin to stay in power (as were all the other communists of eastern europe), so his feelings about being 'commanded' from another head of state motivated him to, in late june 1948, to break up with the soviets. From this moment on Tito received economic aid from the US.
 
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danielshannon ETA 24-48 hours. I'm putting in a few models and packaging it up.

Ringwraith_JP. Event to have Tito leave the alliance in 48 will eventually be put in but not right away. Historically he teamed up with Nasser, Sukarno and Nehru to eventually launch the "Non-Aligned nations" which I think should ultimately go in the game as "Axis".

trekaddict: Thanks will add that for both DFR and GER.
 
nomonhan said:
danielshannon ETA 24-48 hours. I'm putting in a few models and packaging it up.

Ringwraith_JP. Event to have Tito leave the alliance in 48 will eventually be put in but not right away. Historically he teamed up with Nasser, Sukarno and Nehru to eventually launch the "Non-Aligned nations" which I think should ultimately go in the game as "Axis".

trekaddict: Thanks will add that for both DFR and GER.
Click to expand...


Not quite. The Non-alignment was not an alliance, it was a non-alignment at all. They kinda supported each other politically but not that much. And, for in-game reasons, that would have some problems. For example, in 1956, with the Suez Channel Crisis, with France, UK and Israel with war against Egito, the non-aligneds would war enter the war, not smart. The non-alignement never really worked like an military alliance.
By the way the non-aligned movement only began in 1955 in the Bandung conference, it was not right away after the Yugoslav break up with the soviets.
 
Ringwraith_JP
Thank you for your comments. Yes, the real beginning of the Nonaligned movement was at the Bandung conference. It might evolve into a military alliance but not right away. Or it could be just Indonesia, India and Yugoslavia. If nothing else a way has to be found to enable tech sharing at least--perhaps additional blueprint events amongst the Bandung countries. Possibly if China is involved (either Nationalist or Communist) it could be considered an alliance.

Oh wait--even better would be just an Asian alliance and separate Arab and African alliances with some cooperation between them.

Anyway folks, Version 0.12 is out and ready for testing. I've made the changes I believe most relevant to testing, plus some others promised. I'm aware that there are still many things to be done.
 
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nomonhan said:
Ringwraith_JP
Thank you for your comments. Yes, the real beginning of the Nonaligned movement was at the Bandung conference. It might evolve into a military alliance but not right away. Or it could be just Indonesia, India and Yugoslavia. If nothing else a way has to be found to enable tech sharing at least--perhaps additional blueprint events amongst the Bandung countries. Possibly if China is involved (either Nationalist or Communist) it could be considered an alliance.

Oh wait--even better would be just an Asian alliance and separate Arab and African alliances with some cooperation between them.

Anyway folks, Version 0.12 is out and ready for testing. I've made the changes I believe most relevant to testing, plus some others promised. I'm aware that there are still many things to be done.
Click to expand...
The only thing i can see as an full alliance will have no impact into the game. The Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance (the Rio Treaty) was born 1947 and ratified by all the American Countries if i'm not mistaken. It is basically: If you declare war on any american country, then all of them will answer. It never led to a war but, for a Cold War scenario, it must be present if not like an alliance, as a chain of events. If was invoked, for example, in 1962 during the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Falklands war and the 9/11.

Again, I dont think it would work as an alliance. Not that important, most things in Cold War happen in the proxy wars in Asia and Africa.
 
The USA had the Monroe Doctrine for well over 100 years and would have responded in force to any invasion by a foreign power. In practice, it also intervened in force on several occasions to effect regime change if it believed a hostile leftist government would emerge. I see no reason why South America shouldn't be part of the US alliance with maybe some departures here and there.

It would be nice to have an alternative alliance but according to your posts the only logical third choice I can think of is a COMPLETELY UNIFIED China, which could be the sole member of the "Axis" and might try to form its own alliance. Still some smaller alliances are possible, especially the historic anti-Israel "front-line Arab" states, which also includes Iraq. Anyway we're getting off track.

Actually--wait--after the Sino-Soviet split China started going its own way but I believe that was not complete in the time period of the mod.
 
The events for the UK to hand over blueprints to the USSR seem bugged. They keep popping up and I keep getting the same blueprint over and over again. Why not just have 1 event for Britain to chose to send the blueprints and one event for the USSR to get all of the appropriate blueprints?

Also Kalashnikov's picture is too big, he goes outside of his tech team box. This may be a mistake of MODNN.
 
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