Evrard, Meginhard, and Gyrth need to watch out. There are no do-overs when dealing with an unhappy monarch.
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The Battle of Senlis, Part 1 (Narrative)
“After the meeting, the army began to march towards the residence of the Count of Valois, Senlis. The plan was simple - a decisive strike at Senlis would force the count to the negotiating table, allowing Count Herbert to make his demands. A successful capture of Senlis would hopefully lead to Valois’s surrender.
Count Herbert had full faith in this plan, but Evrard had pointed out a complication. He argued that a smart move would be a surprise attack on the Carolingian army while it was marching to Senlis, enabling them to take advantage of the confusion to score a victory and perhaps corner the count again.
It was this potential threat to his own person that convinced the Count of Vermandois to join his scouts in checking for potential military forces. He was - perhaps justifiably - worried about an ambush. At the moment, though, he saw nothing except the open valley. It seemed as if he would encounter no resistance on the way to Senlis. He even dared to hope that the war would come down to a mere siege.
That proved to be a vain hope. When the army arrived at Senlis, they found it guarded by a great army - it seemed as if the Count of Valois had decided to make one last stand - perhaps in protection of his family.
Count Herbert led a small group of scouts back to the main army as he spotted the great army. He called an impromptu meeting with his commanders and told them the news… and ordered them to stop the army from marching while they finalized their plan. They did so, and each army barely remained outside of the vision of the other.
The meeting itself was productive. It was agreed that the Swabian mercenaries would remain in reserve on the Nonette River, watching to ensure that no ships carried reinforcements to the area. For their part, the Anglo-Saxons under Captain Gyrth would guard the rear, ensuring that the main army wasn’t sandwiched between two attacking forces. Evrard would lead the main force besieging the city.
In any normal battle, that would’ve been the end of it, but Count Herbert remained proud. It didn’t sit well with him that he would not play a main role in the first step to reclaiming preeminence in West Francia, but he managed to swallow his pride, remembering the disaster at Laon where he had fallen for a trap because he wanted glory.
The soldiers took their positions and began to advance. As soon as the enemy army spotted the Carolingian force, their archers began to fire. His archers responded with their own arrows, and the army advanced.
Even so, most of his army reached the city walls, protected by the trees all around the area. Senlis, after all, was built in the middle of a forest. Unfortunately, many of those same trees seemed to be shooting arrows at him, and he was forced to dodge. Count Herbert wanted nothing more than to move behind those trees and slaughter the archers using them as cover, but he knew that such a plan would fail. Instead, he reminded himself to focus on his own plan - a plan that would ensure that this battle was over by dawn." - The Valois War
Count Herbert had full faith in this plan, but Evrard had pointed out a complication. He argued that a smart move would be a surprise attack on the Carolingian army while it was marching to Senlis, enabling them to take advantage of the confusion to score a victory and perhaps corner the count again.
It was this potential threat to his own person that convinced the Count of Vermandois to join his scouts in checking for potential military forces. He was - perhaps justifiably - worried about an ambush. At the moment, though, he saw nothing except the open valley. It seemed as if he would encounter no resistance on the way to Senlis. He even dared to hope that the war would come down to a mere siege.
That proved to be a vain hope. When the army arrived at Senlis, they found it guarded by a great army - it seemed as if the Count of Valois had decided to make one last stand - perhaps in protection of his family.
Count Herbert led a small group of scouts back to the main army as he spotted the great army. He called an impromptu meeting with his commanders and told them the news… and ordered them to stop the army from marching while they finalized their plan. They did so, and each army barely remained outside of the vision of the other.
The meeting itself was productive. It was agreed that the Swabian mercenaries would remain in reserve on the Nonette River, watching to ensure that no ships carried reinforcements to the area. For their part, the Anglo-Saxons under Captain Gyrth would guard the rear, ensuring that the main army wasn’t sandwiched between two attacking forces. Evrard would lead the main force besieging the city.
In any normal battle, that would’ve been the end of it, but Count Herbert remained proud. It didn’t sit well with him that he would not play a main role in the first step to reclaiming preeminence in West Francia, but he managed to swallow his pride, remembering the disaster at Laon where he had fallen for a trap because he wanted glory.
The soldiers took their positions and began to advance. As soon as the enemy army spotted the Carolingian force, their archers began to fire. His archers responded with their own arrows, and the army advanced.
Even so, most of his army reached the city walls, protected by the trees all around the area. Senlis, after all, was built in the middle of a forest. Unfortunately, many of those same trees seemed to be shooting arrows at him, and he was forced to dodge. Count Herbert wanted nothing more than to move behind those trees and slaughter the archers using them as cover, but he knew that such a plan would fail. Instead, he reminded himself to focus on his own plan - a plan that would ensure that this battle was over by dawn." - The Valois War
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Yep. Our dear protagonist has some... issues with pride. Let's hope that he can swallow it before it becomes too much of an issue.
Or they need to figure out how they can use his traits to their advantage...
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Mercs should always be in the front line and the first to die. You have to explain and apologize to families of your levies, but mercs come from far away and even their families may have forgotten them. Thanks
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The trees are speaking French...
I liked how you portrayed the battle situation here with the different movements and such. Though I agree with @Midnite Duke that keeping the mercs in reserve positions is not a good idea. It is a perfect way for them to betray Herbert, should they wish. Though perhaps Herbert is too trusting in that regard?
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The Battle of Senlis, Part 2 (Narrative)
'Restraining himself from attacking became more difficult with every arrow fired, but he managed, if only just. Instead, he advanced towards the city’s walls and was caught up in the melee that began when the two armies met. He dueled many men, but he managed to avoid injury or ambush - which was the important thing.
The battle lasted past dawn, and the rise and fall of the moon did nothing to stop the fighting. Finally, after hours of waiting, he saw his opening. A small gap had opened up between enemy lines. It was not a large gap - indeed, it was barely even noticeable, but it was wide enough for a human to move through. That was enough. It was enough to let him reach the walls.
He snuck over to the walls with only a few companions to cover him. The battle itself concealed their advance, but it also cut off their retreat. They would have to fight to successfully leave the battlefield without capturing Senlis, but that was fine. Count Herbert had no intention of ending the combat with anything other than a capture of the city… and, hopefully, an end to the war.
The wall was a daunting obstacle, though. Count Herbert’s initial attempts to scale it failed, so he turned to his companions, ordering them to lift him over the barrier. Even with their aid, though, the wall was too high, and a different man might have given up there and retreated. He had come too far, though, so he turned his blade upon the ancient wall and attempted to make an opening into the city. The blade slowly chipped away at the wall, but the old structure held. Perhaps it would’ve fallen eventually, but Count Herbert was soon forced to stop his assaults when his protection vanished.
He turned to see what was up, and he discovered that their attempts had been noticed. His companions were under attack. He removed his sword from the wall and attacked the men who were assailing his companions. A chaotic duel began, and the city’s walls were forgotten… at least for the moment.
Soon, he could no longer focus on the wider picture. He couldn’t focus on his scheme to seize the palace. He couldn’t focus on his failure to secure the wall. All he could focus on was his own survival… and, perhaps, the survival of his companions. He struck his opponent’s swords, and they parried. They struck, and he parried. Swords met for hours, and there was no change. And, then, finally, he saw an opening in one of his enemy’s defenses.
This man was defending against one of his companions, but his focus on just one person proved to be his downfall. He left his undefended side open, and that made all the difference. Count Herbert drove his blade into his enemy’s neck, and one enemy was vanquished.
Then, of course, things went back to business as usual. One party struck, and another parried. Eventually, only two men remained - Count Herbert and one of his opponents. Both of the count’s companions had died, but his opponent was out of allies as well. Things became a one-on-one duel." - The Valois War
The battle lasted past dawn, and the rise and fall of the moon did nothing to stop the fighting. Finally, after hours of waiting, he saw his opening. A small gap had opened up between enemy lines. It was not a large gap - indeed, it was barely even noticeable, but it was wide enough for a human to move through. That was enough. It was enough to let him reach the walls.
He snuck over to the walls with only a few companions to cover him. The battle itself concealed their advance, but it also cut off their retreat. They would have to fight to successfully leave the battlefield without capturing Senlis, but that was fine. Count Herbert had no intention of ending the combat with anything other than a capture of the city… and, hopefully, an end to the war.
The wall was a daunting obstacle, though. Count Herbert’s initial attempts to scale it failed, so he turned to his companions, ordering them to lift him over the barrier. Even with their aid, though, the wall was too high, and a different man might have given up there and retreated. He had come too far, though, so he turned his blade upon the ancient wall and attempted to make an opening into the city. The blade slowly chipped away at the wall, but the old structure held. Perhaps it would’ve fallen eventually, but Count Herbert was soon forced to stop his assaults when his protection vanished.
He turned to see what was up, and he discovered that their attempts had been noticed. His companions were under attack. He removed his sword from the wall and attacked the men who were assailing his companions. A chaotic duel began, and the city’s walls were forgotten… at least for the moment.
Soon, he could no longer focus on the wider picture. He couldn’t focus on his scheme to seize the palace. He couldn’t focus on his failure to secure the wall. All he could focus on was his own survival… and, perhaps, the survival of his companions. He struck his opponent’s swords, and they parried. They struck, and he parried. Swords met for hours, and there was no change. And, then, finally, he saw an opening in one of his enemy’s defenses.
This man was defending against one of his companions, but his focus on just one person proved to be his downfall. He left his undefended side open, and that made all the difference. Count Herbert drove his blade into his enemy’s neck, and one enemy was vanquished.
Then, of course, things went back to business as usual. One party struck, and another parried. Eventually, only two men remained - Count Herbert and one of his opponents. Both of the count’s companions had died, but his opponent was out of allies as well. Things became a one-on-one duel." - The Valois War
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Of course, but Count Herbert sees his levies as unreliable because of Laon. Whether or not that's wise is another matter entirely, of course.
Thanks! The Count does trust the mercs more than his men at this point, although that's less due to trust and more due to overanalyzing Laon (and only subconsciously admitting fault for it).
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One man facing Count Herbert is nine men short, unless he is a Capet then he is nineteen short. Thanks
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Count Herbert once again finds himself surrounded by enemies after moving ahead of his main force. Very reckless, though men with grand ambitions often need to lead from the front.
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The Battle of Senlis, Part 3 (Narrative)
"Count Herbert attacked, hoping to end this soon and figure out a new way to take Senlis. His foe dodged his blade and counterattacked, aiming for his face. Count Herbert raised his shield to block it and remained uninjured. They exchanged blows for a while, but neither landed any substantial hits. Their blades would hit the blade or the shield of the other, but it would never strike exposed skin.
As time passed, their blows grew more sluggish, and Count Herbert knew that he had to end the duel and escape as soon as possible. Unfortunately, his opponent had also reached the same conclusion. Both looked for as many openings as possible. Neither found any. It seemed as if that duel was locked in a stalemate, and neither man could focus on anything other than their immediate foe.
That was more of an impediment to Count Herbert. As far as he was aware, his opponent was not a high rank in his enemy’s army - it would be no great loss if he was ambushed and killed. If Count Herbert was killed or injured by a surprise attack, then the campaign would end. Even so, the count refused to disengage - perhaps he was too proud.
Regardless, the fight continued, and no one interrupted it. To an outside observer, it must’ve looked almost like a dance. Their blades crossed, their shields blocked, and they moved. Neither person noticed just how far they were moving away from the walls of Senlis - and neither noticed where they were going. They were entirely preoccupied with their private confrontation… Indeed, they were so preoccupied that they failed to notice when the battle stopped.
They continued fighting, heedless of any sense of time or the larger battle. Only the death of his enemy finally snapped Count Herbert out of his hyperfocus and ended the duel. It was then that he realized that he had managed to duel his way past both of the clashing armies and reached his own rear. He winced at that. His chance of surviving such a move must’ve been miniscule. Anyone in the opposing army could’ve killed him, and he would’ve barely even noticed until the deed was done.
That realization made him feel… some weird cross between humbled and annoyed. He decided not to think about it too much. Instead, he turned to Captain Gyrth. 'What’s going on with the battle right now? I… sort of got distracted.'
Captain Gyrth looked amused, but he answered his temporary liege’s question all the same. 'The battle will likely resume at sunrise or a bit after that. It is far too late for anyone to want to fight at the moment - except you, I suppose.'
He winced. 'I lost track of time - I was too busy trying to stay alive.'
Captain Gyrth shrugged. 'Regardless, you should sleep - and maybe avoid putting yourself in danger for little reason?'
Count Herbert raised an eyebrow. 'I have a better idea, actually. If my plan works, I will never have to put myself in danger again. If it works, this war will be over by dawn.'
Captain Gyrth frowned. 'Wasn’t that the point of your private mission that landed you here in the first place? Why do you expect this plan to work any better than that one did?'
For a brief moment, Count Herbert was tempted to tell Captain Gyrth the plan and have him double-check it. He dismissed that thought, though. For a mercenary captain, Gyrth had many morals. It was likely that he would see the count’s plan as dishonorable and cowardly. Therefore, he settled with a verbal, 'you’ll see' and walked away." - The Valois War
As time passed, their blows grew more sluggish, and Count Herbert knew that he had to end the duel and escape as soon as possible. Unfortunately, his opponent had also reached the same conclusion. Both looked for as many openings as possible. Neither found any. It seemed as if that duel was locked in a stalemate, and neither man could focus on anything other than their immediate foe.
That was more of an impediment to Count Herbert. As far as he was aware, his opponent was not a high rank in his enemy’s army - it would be no great loss if he was ambushed and killed. If Count Herbert was killed or injured by a surprise attack, then the campaign would end. Even so, the count refused to disengage - perhaps he was too proud.
Regardless, the fight continued, and no one interrupted it. To an outside observer, it must’ve looked almost like a dance. Their blades crossed, their shields blocked, and they moved. Neither person noticed just how far they were moving away from the walls of Senlis - and neither noticed where they were going. They were entirely preoccupied with their private confrontation… Indeed, they were so preoccupied that they failed to notice when the battle stopped.
They continued fighting, heedless of any sense of time or the larger battle. Only the death of his enemy finally snapped Count Herbert out of his hyperfocus and ended the duel. It was then that he realized that he had managed to duel his way past both of the clashing armies and reached his own rear. He winced at that. His chance of surviving such a move must’ve been miniscule. Anyone in the opposing army could’ve killed him, and he would’ve barely even noticed until the deed was done.
That realization made him feel… some weird cross between humbled and annoyed. He decided not to think about it too much. Instead, he turned to Captain Gyrth. 'What’s going on with the battle right now? I… sort of got distracted.'
Captain Gyrth looked amused, but he answered his temporary liege’s question all the same. 'The battle will likely resume at sunrise or a bit after that. It is far too late for anyone to want to fight at the moment - except you, I suppose.'
He winced. 'I lost track of time - I was too busy trying to stay alive.'
Captain Gyrth shrugged. 'Regardless, you should sleep - and maybe avoid putting yourself in danger for little reason?'
Count Herbert raised an eyebrow. 'I have a better idea, actually. If my plan works, I will never have to put myself in danger again. If it works, this war will be over by dawn.'
Captain Gyrth frowned. 'Wasn’t that the point of your private mission that landed you here in the first place? Why do you expect this plan to work any better than that one did?'
For a brief moment, Count Herbert was tempted to tell Captain Gyrth the plan and have him double-check it. He dismissed that thought, though. For a mercenary captain, Gyrth had many morals. It was likely that he would see the count’s plan as dishonorable and cowardly. Therefore, he settled with a verbal, 'you’ll see' and walked away." - The Valois War
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Count Herbert is quite good at fighting. He does have his limits, though, as Laon showed all too well.
Yep. Then again, he is a very arrogant man. Even so, he does delegate actual command of the army to someone else. Perhaps that means something...
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There's only so many times one can be lucky. How many times can the Count survive until his time is up?
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The Battle of Senlis Ends (Narrative and Historybook)
“Many men would later call Count Herbert’s plan insane and audacious. It was, however, just insane and audacious enough to work, and that was all that mattered.
Under the cover of the moonless night, he snuck back to the walls. This new plan carried elements of his old plan, but Count Herbert liked to think that he had improved it. For one thing, no one should attack him before he could get the walls down - everyone would be asleep.
Reaching the walls was easy, and even doing so unnoticed was relatively easy. The hard part was finding the specific portion of the wall that he had attacked before. That took many minutes, and it made more noise than he would’ve liked. Thankfully, it did not make enough noise to wake either of the sleeping armies.
Unfortunately, the army of Valois was not quite as stupid as he had hoped. They had placed sentries to keep guard over their camp, and these sentries heard his attacks upon the wall. They moved to confront him, and he was forced to kill them.
The sight of their blood proved surprisingly helpful, as it reminded Count Herbert that he had fought a battle at the spot where his sword had struck the wall. He thus realized that there should be blood there, and so he searched for the color crimson. Eventually, he found it, and he attacked the wall that was stained by that color.
The wall didn’t take long to break, and he could hardly believe his eyes when he saw an unguarded opening to the city. After spending a while staring at his goal, he snuck in quietly and headed straight towards the largest building.
It was nothing as ostentatious as a palace, but it was recognizable enough as the dwelling of a rich and mighty man. Count Herbert figured that the Count of Valois was there… but, even if he wasn’t, useful pieces of leverage were.
He searched the bedrooms, and he found the Count himself, his wife, and his heir there, undefended. He smiled at his luck.
Then, he drew his sword and placed it softly on the lady’s neck. Shortly thereafter, he slapped the count himself with his shield. The man twitched but refused to wake up. Annoyed, Count Herbert kicked him.” - The Valois War
“That did get him to wake up, which allowed the Carolingian to offer his terms. Count Herbert called the resulting conversation ‘peace negotiations’. The Count of Valois called it ‘an illegal demand that couldn’t be refused’. Regardless, the title of Count of Valois was transferred to Count Herbert, as was the land associated with it. Count Herbert then forced his fellow count to wake his wife up, and he took her as a hostage at bladepoint.
He made her follow him out of the city and justified it by saying that she would be returned if the peace terms were kept. Legend has it that he also made at least one threat about what would happen to her if they weren’t, including the famous story that he would make her fight in the amphitheater near Senlis. There is no evidence that this threat was ever uttered, but the point illustrates how much leverage Count Herbert had over his foe.
When the sun rose the next day, both counts announced the news to their armies, and the war ended.
Once he was secure in his power over Valois, Count Herbert did keep his promise, returning the spouse of his old adversary to the man who was now reduced to Count of Amiens.
The moment wasn’t a moment too soon, either. The rebellion that had permitted his aggression ended mere days afterward.” - Aggressive Negotiations: A History of Dishonor
Under the cover of the moonless night, he snuck back to the walls. This new plan carried elements of his old plan, but Count Herbert liked to think that he had improved it. For one thing, no one should attack him before he could get the walls down - everyone would be asleep.
Reaching the walls was easy, and even doing so unnoticed was relatively easy. The hard part was finding the specific portion of the wall that he had attacked before. That took many minutes, and it made more noise than he would’ve liked. Thankfully, it did not make enough noise to wake either of the sleeping armies.
Unfortunately, the army of Valois was not quite as stupid as he had hoped. They had placed sentries to keep guard over their camp, and these sentries heard his attacks upon the wall. They moved to confront him, and he was forced to kill them.
The sight of their blood proved surprisingly helpful, as it reminded Count Herbert that he had fought a battle at the spot where his sword had struck the wall. He thus realized that there should be blood there, and so he searched for the color crimson. Eventually, he found it, and he attacked the wall that was stained by that color.
The wall didn’t take long to break, and he could hardly believe his eyes when he saw an unguarded opening to the city. After spending a while staring at his goal, he snuck in quietly and headed straight towards the largest building.
It was nothing as ostentatious as a palace, but it was recognizable enough as the dwelling of a rich and mighty man. Count Herbert figured that the Count of Valois was there… but, even if he wasn’t, useful pieces of leverage were.
He searched the bedrooms, and he found the Count himself, his wife, and his heir there, undefended. He smiled at his luck.
Then, he drew his sword and placed it softly on the lady’s neck. Shortly thereafter, he slapped the count himself with his shield. The man twitched but refused to wake up. Annoyed, Count Herbert kicked him.” - The Valois War
“That did get him to wake up, which allowed the Carolingian to offer his terms. Count Herbert called the resulting conversation ‘peace negotiations’. The Count of Valois called it ‘an illegal demand that couldn’t be refused’. Regardless, the title of Count of Valois was transferred to Count Herbert, as was the land associated with it. Count Herbert then forced his fellow count to wake his wife up, and he took her as a hostage at bladepoint.
He made her follow him out of the city and justified it by saying that she would be returned if the peace terms were kept. Legend has it that he also made at least one threat about what would happen to her if they weren’t, including the famous story that he would make her fight in the amphitheater near Senlis. There is no evidence that this threat was ever uttered, but the point illustrates how much leverage Count Herbert had over his foe.
When the sun rose the next day, both counts announced the news to their armies, and the war ended.
Once he was secure in his power over Valois, Count Herbert did keep his promise, returning the spouse of his old adversary to the man who was now reduced to Count of Amiens.
The moment wasn’t a moment too soon, either. The rebellion that had permitted his aggression ended mere days afterward.” - Aggressive Negotiations: A History of Dishonor
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The Count is... certainly a risk-taker. It comes with being proud.
We'll see if it costs him his life.
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Good job by the Count. He knew just what to do to get the (former) Count of Valois to give up. Now he can plot his next move.
How old is Herbert by the way? Is the succession secure?
How old is Herbert by the way? Is the succession secure?
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A War for Legitimacy (Historybook)
“The theory was that the end of the two internal wars would lead to a new age of peace or, perhaps, an age of expansion. The rivalry of France and the HRE remained, and a new war over who was the true successor to Charlemagne could easily have erupted.
What nobody expected was what actually happened. King Philippe of France decided to celebrate his realm’s newfound unification by intervening in a civil war in a small kingdom in Ireland. That war didn’t last long, as one might expect.
Count Herbert was left unpunished for his aggression, and this encouraged his ambition. He sent his spymaster to Flanders in an attempt to fabricate a claim on that duchy. He extended the contracts of both of the mercenary companies that he had hired. All signs indicated that he was preparing for war.
The surprising thing wasn’t that he declared war soon after his victory in Valois. What was surprising, though, was his target. Instead of attacking Flanders or backstabbing his old friend in Clermont, the Count attacked his other neighbor - the Duchy of Champagne.
There were pragmatic reasons for this, admittedly. Both of these campaigns were symbolic. The city of Senlis in Valois had been an old capital of France. In fact, it had been the first center of the Capetian regime - it was in Senlis that the West Francian nobles first elected Hugh Capet as the king of France.
The symbolic significance of Reims was heavier, though. Senlis hadn’t betrayed the Carolingians, but Reims had. The archbishop of Reims, one Alberon, had asked the assembly of nobles to choose Hugh Capet as their king. Count Herbert thought that seizing the city (and the archbishopric) would avenge this. By extent, it would also help renew Carolingian legitimacy… and weaken the legitimacy of the Capets. Control of Reims would allow Herbert to appoint an archbishop who might be willing to back him in a struggle for the French crown itself.
The attack on Reims marked the beginning of Count Herbert’s attempts to seize supremacy within France.” - Capets and Carolingians: A Brief History of France
Short update today! I promise that the Flanders war will come soon. I just got a claim on Reims and felt that it made more in-universe sense to attack them first. Next update should be longer.
What nobody expected was what actually happened. King Philippe of France decided to celebrate his realm’s newfound unification by intervening in a civil war in a small kingdom in Ireland. That war didn’t last long, as one might expect.
Count Herbert was left unpunished for his aggression, and this encouraged his ambition. He sent his spymaster to Flanders in an attempt to fabricate a claim on that duchy. He extended the contracts of both of the mercenary companies that he had hired. All signs indicated that he was preparing for war.
The surprising thing wasn’t that he declared war soon after his victory in Valois. What was surprising, though, was his target. Instead of attacking Flanders or backstabbing his old friend in Clermont, the Count attacked his other neighbor - the Duchy of Champagne.
There were pragmatic reasons for this, admittedly. Both of these campaigns were symbolic. The city of Senlis in Valois had been an old capital of France. In fact, it had been the first center of the Capetian regime - it was in Senlis that the West Francian nobles first elected Hugh Capet as the king of France.
The symbolic significance of Reims was heavier, though. Senlis hadn’t betrayed the Carolingians, but Reims had. The archbishop of Reims, one Alberon, had asked the assembly of nobles to choose Hugh Capet as their king. Count Herbert thought that seizing the city (and the archbishopric) would avenge this. By extent, it would also help renew Carolingian legitimacy… and weaken the legitimacy of the Capets. Control of Reims would allow Herbert to appoint an archbishop who might be willing to back him in a struggle for the French crown itself.
The attack on Reims marked the beginning of Count Herbert’s attempts to seize supremacy within France.” - Capets and Carolingians: A Brief History of France
Short update today! I promise that the Flanders war will come soon. I just got a claim on Reims and felt that it made more in-universe sense to attack them first. Next update should be longer.
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An interesting look at the symbolic reasons behind Herbert's plans. I had no idea about Reims and Senlis and their roles in Frankish politics.
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The War for Reims (Historybook)
“The war for Reims was the first time that the weakened Carolingians fought against a duchy, and it was thus an effective demonstration of their returning power. Indeed, even the Capets took note of this - Count Herbert was invited to be King Philippe’s spymaster after Herbert seized the city.
At first, there were doubts about the war, even within the Carolingian family. Duke Thibault of Champagne, the nominal overlord of Reims, was Count Herbert’s brother-in-law, and Pierre, the Carolingian chancellor of Vermandois, had hoped to ally with him against more threatening enemies (such as the weakened rulers of Normandy or even the Capets themselves). Count Herbert knew of this discontent, and he intended to silence it quickly.
He thought that the best way to quiet such whispers was to win a quick victory. He thus ordered his army to march to Reims itself, hoping to take the symbolic area and force a quick peace. Initially, this appeared to be a viable strategy - Reims was under siege as soon as the army could reach it, and it seemed as if it would fall quickly. In the end, it did, but there was a brief scare. As Count Herbert attacked Reims, Duke Thibault had personally led his men in an attack on Vermandois itself, probably hoping to draw his foe away from his lands.
If that was his plan, it almost worked. Many members of the army were from Vermandois or owned lands that supplied the capital, and all of them were worried about their family members. Others who were less attached to the area (especially the new recruits from Valois) favored staying in order to ensure that the war was over as soon as possible. For a moment, it looked as though the army of Vermandois might split.
Count Herbert saw this, and so he took quick and decisive action. He declared that any troops caught deserting would be denounced as traitors and executed. Faced with a choice between an ignoble death and a possible honorable death, most of the soldiers doubled their efforts in their assault on Reims. The city fell in November, and Count Herbert took prisoners and had his army march back to Vermandois. The siege of the capital had only strengthened Pierre’s calls for peaceful negotiations, and Count Herbert intended to end any doubt about the wisdom of this war.
Once they arrived at their destination, he sent a letter to Duke Thibault, demanding overlordship of Reims and an end to the war. The duke refused, and, fearing that he could not defeat the Carolingian armies in battle, ceased his siege of Vermandois and fled. The Carolingian armies chased their foe across most of Valois and Vermandois until they finally cornered them at Marle.
Two battles, separated by half a year, occurred at Marle. Both were victories for Count Herbert, but Duke Thibault continued to refuse to surrender. His private letters indicate that he thought that King Philippe was raising an army to come to his aid against the king’s ‘treacherous vassal’. Unfortunately for him, King Philippe was unwilling to intervene in this war, insisting that border disputes weren’t any of his business. Thankfully, the victories did manage to silence Pierre’s calls for a peaceful resolution, and they ended any doubt about the war back in Vermandois and Valois, as everyone saw that victory was inevitable.
Even so, by the tail end of 1072, Count Herbert was getting tired of his brother-in-law’s intransigence, so he moved the battlefield back to the Duchy of Champagne itself by attacking Chateau-Thierry, a castle located near Reims. Duke Thibault followed them there, and, in October, the final battle of the war was fought. Chateau-Thierry was a resounding victory for the Carolingians, and the castle was put under siege.
It held out for a while, but, as 1073 dawned, it fell. In that castle was Duke Thibault’s son, and the ruler of Champagne finally saw that the war was lost. He surrendered Reims and its surrounding territory.
The successful end of the war meant that Count Herbert was already considering his next war. He thought of many targets - Flanders, as his family kept advising him, a betrayal of his old ally in Clermont, or even a brazen attack on the Capets themselves. Then, he read his mail, and none of that mattered. Some things mattered more than the temporal concerns of monarchs - and the news that was coming out of Provence was one of those things…” - Capets and Carolingians: A Brief History of France
Also, it's voting time again! The Flanders War still hasn't happened yet, but events created interesting scenarios, so here are the new options! Voting ends on September 17.
Here are your options:
Wait for an in-game claim and attack Flanders, hoping to get a claim to the duchy.
Try to change the succession so that my realm isn't shattered when Count Herbert dies. Attack Flanders after that's dealt with.
There are heretics near my realm! It is my holy duty to destroy them, root and stem!
At first, there were doubts about the war, even within the Carolingian family. Duke Thibault of Champagne, the nominal overlord of Reims, was Count Herbert’s brother-in-law, and Pierre, the Carolingian chancellor of Vermandois, had hoped to ally with him against more threatening enemies (such as the weakened rulers of Normandy or even the Capets themselves). Count Herbert knew of this discontent, and he intended to silence it quickly.
He thought that the best way to quiet such whispers was to win a quick victory. He thus ordered his army to march to Reims itself, hoping to take the symbolic area and force a quick peace. Initially, this appeared to be a viable strategy - Reims was under siege as soon as the army could reach it, and it seemed as if it would fall quickly. In the end, it did, but there was a brief scare. As Count Herbert attacked Reims, Duke Thibault had personally led his men in an attack on Vermandois itself, probably hoping to draw his foe away from his lands.
If that was his plan, it almost worked. Many members of the army were from Vermandois or owned lands that supplied the capital, and all of them were worried about their family members. Others who were less attached to the area (especially the new recruits from Valois) favored staying in order to ensure that the war was over as soon as possible. For a moment, it looked as though the army of Vermandois might split.
Count Herbert saw this, and so he took quick and decisive action. He declared that any troops caught deserting would be denounced as traitors and executed. Faced with a choice between an ignoble death and a possible honorable death, most of the soldiers doubled their efforts in their assault on Reims. The city fell in November, and Count Herbert took prisoners and had his army march back to Vermandois. The siege of the capital had only strengthened Pierre’s calls for peaceful negotiations, and Count Herbert intended to end any doubt about the wisdom of this war.
Once they arrived at their destination, he sent a letter to Duke Thibault, demanding overlordship of Reims and an end to the war. The duke refused, and, fearing that he could not defeat the Carolingian armies in battle, ceased his siege of Vermandois and fled. The Carolingian armies chased their foe across most of Valois and Vermandois until they finally cornered them at Marle.
Two battles, separated by half a year, occurred at Marle. Both were victories for Count Herbert, but Duke Thibault continued to refuse to surrender. His private letters indicate that he thought that King Philippe was raising an army to come to his aid against the king’s ‘treacherous vassal’. Unfortunately for him, King Philippe was unwilling to intervene in this war, insisting that border disputes weren’t any of his business. Thankfully, the victories did manage to silence Pierre’s calls for a peaceful resolution, and they ended any doubt about the war back in Vermandois and Valois, as everyone saw that victory was inevitable.
Even so, by the tail end of 1072, Count Herbert was getting tired of his brother-in-law’s intransigence, so he moved the battlefield back to the Duchy of Champagne itself by attacking Chateau-Thierry, a castle located near Reims. Duke Thibault followed them there, and, in October, the final battle of the war was fought. Chateau-Thierry was a resounding victory for the Carolingians, and the castle was put under siege.
It held out for a while, but, as 1073 dawned, it fell. In that castle was Duke Thibault’s son, and the ruler of Champagne finally saw that the war was lost. He surrendered Reims and its surrounding territory.
The successful end of the war meant that Count Herbert was already considering his next war. He thought of many targets - Flanders, as his family kept advising him, a betrayal of his old ally in Clermont, or even a brazen attack on the Capets themselves. Then, he read his mail, and none of that mattered. Some things mattered more than the temporal concerns of monarchs - and the news that was coming out of Provence was one of those things…” - Capets and Carolingians: A Brief History of France
Also, it's voting time again! The Flanders War still hasn't happened yet, but events created interesting scenarios, so here are the new options! Voting ends on September 17.
Here are your options:
Wait for an in-game claim and attack Flanders, hoping to get a claim to the duchy.
Try to change the succession so that my realm isn't shattered when Count Herbert dies. Attack Flanders after that's dealt with.
There are heretics near my realm! It is my holy duty to destroy them, root and stem!
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I don't know the exact age. The realm will fall apart due to Confederate Partition after Herbert dies assuming I don't grab a duchy title ASAP.
I literally learned about that while reading about Senlis for ideas about the Valois War plot. It seemed too fitting not to include, especially once an event fired giving me a free claim to Reims.
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I love that the army and battles in this AAR feel like living things. Most stories tend to just say "the battle was fought here, on year X, and the defenders won." Not criticizing that other style, but this is unique compared to others I have read.
While Flanders would be a nice boon, does the Count have enough men to currently challenge them? Herbert seems to be somewhat pragmatic (though also proud). Perhaps he won't settle for anything less than the full duchy, even if a quick county-claim war would be more effective.
The rising heresy might make the Count question his mortality/the afterlife and the coming succession.
Count Herbert doesn't seem to be overly zealous. He probably would like the Pope on his side (to strengthen his claim as Charlegmagne's heir), but wouldn't care too much if internal strife weakens Catholic authority. The Pope could just as easily be an enemy to the Carolingian cause or a friend.
Option 2 (succession law change) seems to be the best play.
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