Very intriguing. Could there be more than one betrayal going on here perhaps?
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Why does the Countess hate her d-i-l? Is the Bimbo following a time-honored CK tradition and sleeping with her landed f-i-l instead of her unlanded husband? Thanks
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The Fall of Amiens (Historybook)
My apologies about the hiatus. It's been a busy week. In the meantime, let's jump a bit into the future...
“After the finalization of the alliance with Clermont, Count Herbert decided to wait on declaring war on Flanders. Instead, he moved to conquer Count Raoul’s last county, Amiens, in order to gain a border with Flanders. Once war was declared in early 1078, he sent a message to Count Renaud asking for military aid, which was agreed to.
The war itself was short, and the outcome was never in doubt. The only battle was fought just outside of the city of Amiens itself in May 1078, and it ended with a decisive victory for the alliance between Count Herbert and Count Renaud. A siege wasn’t even necessary because Count Renaud captured Count Raoul and forced him to surrender his last territory.
As Amiens fell, King Philippe watched. He refused to intervene and enforce peace. For centuries, historians have debated why. Perhaps he feared the power of the dukes in his realm and wanted a counterbalance to them. Perhaps he respected Count Herbert, especially given their future relationship. Perhaps he saw the conflict as too petty to be worth his attention. Whatever the case, he did nothing, and the Carolingians inched closer to reclaiming their former glory.” - Capets and Carolingians: A Brief History of France
“The fall of Amiens had repercussions far beyond that small city. Count Raoul was allied with a son of Duke Thibault of Champagne whose name is lost to history. What is known is that he was the Count of Blois and led his army to oppose the Carolingians outside of Amiens’s walls. His force was destroyed along with Count Raoul’s, and he only barely escaped.
Unfortunately, his family did not. His wife and daughter were captured by Count Herbert, who imprisoned them along with a few other courtiers. The Count of Blois soon realized this and sent a ransom offer to the Count of Vermandois, offering large sums of gold in exchange for the release of his family.
This move proved to be a mistake. It informed Count Herbert that he had valuable prisoners that he could use as bargaining chips. Furthermore, it let slip that the Count of Blois was the heir to the Duchy of Champagne. That gave Count Herbert an idea on how to increase his dynasty’s power. It was one of the most immoral plans ever made. It also worked better than anyone involved could ever have hoped… for the Carolingians. For the rulers of Champagne, it became the worst tragedy they ever experienced.
The plan relied on the fact that his daughter, Perinne, was very young and unbetrothed. She also remained a prisoner. Count Herbert offered to give her freedom in exchange for a favor, and she agreed. Soon after, the head of the Carolingian house offered to transmute her mother’s sentence to house arrest if she agreed to betroth Perinne to his son and heir, Prince Eudes…
After securing her agreement, he invoked the favor she owed him to get her to approve her own marriage. He then sent a letter to the Count of Blois telling him of these events and making it clear that he would never get any of his family back unless he agreed. Reluctantly, the man agreed to countenance the betrothal. Thus were the seeds of the Great Champagne Disaster planted.” - Butterflies of Doom: Small Events that Caused Great Destruction
“After the finalization of the alliance with Clermont, Count Herbert decided to wait on declaring war on Flanders. Instead, he moved to conquer Count Raoul’s last county, Amiens, in order to gain a border with Flanders. Once war was declared in early 1078, he sent a message to Count Renaud asking for military aid, which was agreed to.
The war itself was short, and the outcome was never in doubt. The only battle was fought just outside of the city of Amiens itself in May 1078, and it ended with a decisive victory for the alliance between Count Herbert and Count Renaud. A siege wasn’t even necessary because Count Renaud captured Count Raoul and forced him to surrender his last territory.
As Amiens fell, King Philippe watched. He refused to intervene and enforce peace. For centuries, historians have debated why. Perhaps he feared the power of the dukes in his realm and wanted a counterbalance to them. Perhaps he respected Count Herbert, especially given their future relationship. Perhaps he saw the conflict as too petty to be worth his attention. Whatever the case, he did nothing, and the Carolingians inched closer to reclaiming their former glory.” - Capets and Carolingians: A Brief History of France
“The fall of Amiens had repercussions far beyond that small city. Count Raoul was allied with a son of Duke Thibault of Champagne whose name is lost to history. What is known is that he was the Count of Blois and led his army to oppose the Carolingians outside of Amiens’s walls. His force was destroyed along with Count Raoul’s, and he only barely escaped.
Unfortunately, his family did not. His wife and daughter were captured by Count Herbert, who imprisoned them along with a few other courtiers. The Count of Blois soon realized this and sent a ransom offer to the Count of Vermandois, offering large sums of gold in exchange for the release of his family.
This move proved to be a mistake. It informed Count Herbert that he had valuable prisoners that he could use as bargaining chips. Furthermore, it let slip that the Count of Blois was the heir to the Duchy of Champagne. That gave Count Herbert an idea on how to increase his dynasty’s power. It was one of the most immoral plans ever made. It also worked better than anyone involved could ever have hoped… for the Carolingians. For the rulers of Champagne, it became the worst tragedy they ever experienced.
The plan relied on the fact that his daughter, Perinne, was very young and unbetrothed. She also remained a prisoner. Count Herbert offered to give her freedom in exchange for a favor, and she agreed. Soon after, the head of the Carolingian house offered to transmute her mother’s sentence to house arrest if she agreed to betroth Perinne to his son and heir, Prince Eudes…
After securing her agreement, he invoked the favor she owed him to get her to approve her own marriage. He then sent a letter to the Count of Blois telling him of these events and making it clear that he would never get any of his family back unless he agreed. Reluctantly, the man agreed to countenance the betrothal. Thus were the seeds of the Great Champagne Disaster planted.” - Butterflies of Doom: Small Events that Caused Great Destruction
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Not quite 30. The success will occur soon - but I have a plan for covering that.
Perhaps.
Indeed! I love writing intrigue.
She isn't, but the Countess has her reasons. Some of it's motherly love... but not all of it.
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Interesting developments. I always think figuring out how marriages will affect the process is intriguing, partially because the best laid plans do not always work out as predicted.
The count certainly knows how to use his leverage to enforce his will.
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Ominous foreshadowing. I look forward to seeing how this plays out.
Count Herbert is that rare breed: a great fighter AND a master at intrigue.
Was this an A Sound of Thunder reference?
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Fortunes vary greatly from OTL as Herbert is the last male Carolingians and Eudes is so bonkers that he is cast aside. The Blois of Champagne would acquire Navarra and later family members the French throne. Herbert, what a twisted web you weave. Thanks
Anger At Love (Narrative/Play)
“Scene: The castle of Clermont
(Ermengard is pacing in a private room inside the castle)
Ermengard:
Such a bad idea, such a shameful marriage.
No, the marriage was not merely shameful but harmful.
It had no benefit and knew no logic.
She had shared her opinions with her husband, of course,
But he had refused to change his mind.
Thus was this farce of a wedding about to proceed,
Despite how utterly nonsensical it was.
I cannot permit it to occur,
But I can do nothing to stop it.
(Enter Masked Man)
Masked Man:
My lady, what annoys you?
(Ermengard starts to smile)
Ermengard:
This farce of a marriage!
Who in their right mind would marry for love?
Masked Man:
If you disapprove of the marriage,
Why have you not challenged it?
Ermengard:
I have tried!
My foolish husband won’t listen!
Masked Man:
There is more than one way to deny a bride her husband.
There is more than one way to challenge a marriage.
Why have you not taken more… drastic… measures?
Ermengard:
Hmmm…
You raise a fantastic point.
I did not consider such a thing a possibility,
But I now realize such an oversight was folly.
This marriage can be so easily undone.
All it would take is a pinch of poison in her wine…
And yet I must tailor the demise to her.
Perhaps then my sentimental husband and my foolish son will realize that marriages for love are cursed above all else - especially now.
Masked Man:
Well… they surely aren’t wise.
Ermengard:
Tell no one of these thoughts and plans.
If you do, it won’t be difficult to put a pinch of poison in your wine.
Masked Man:
Did you seriously think you were the only one who saw the shame in this?
Don’t worry. I shall tell no one who would not be inclined to aid you of this exchange.
Best of luck, my lady.
Intrigue is a street that cuts both ways.
Ermengard:
I know it well.
Thank you for your advice.”
- Ermengard, Act 1
A/N: This idea fought me more than I liked. I'm not sure how it is now, but it does answer some questions about why the Countess of Clermont was willing to scheme with Herbert to kill her daughter-in-law. Of course, this is only one interpretation of events. We'll get to the others soon enough, although I will use this play as a source again.
(Ermengard is pacing in a private room inside the castle)
Ermengard:
Such a bad idea, such a shameful marriage.
No, the marriage was not merely shameful but harmful.
It had no benefit and knew no logic.
She had shared her opinions with her husband, of course,
But he had refused to change his mind.
Thus was this farce of a wedding about to proceed,
Despite how utterly nonsensical it was.
I cannot permit it to occur,
But I can do nothing to stop it.
(Enter Masked Man)
Masked Man:
My lady, what annoys you?
(Ermengard starts to smile)
Ermengard:
This farce of a marriage!
Who in their right mind would marry for love?
Masked Man:
If you disapprove of the marriage,
Why have you not challenged it?
Ermengard:
I have tried!
My foolish husband won’t listen!
Masked Man:
There is more than one way to deny a bride her husband.
There is more than one way to challenge a marriage.
Why have you not taken more… drastic… measures?
Ermengard:
Hmmm…
You raise a fantastic point.
I did not consider such a thing a possibility,
But I now realize such an oversight was folly.
This marriage can be so easily undone.
All it would take is a pinch of poison in her wine…
And yet I must tailor the demise to her.
Perhaps then my sentimental husband and my foolish son will realize that marriages for love are cursed above all else - especially now.
Masked Man:
Well… they surely aren’t wise.
Ermengard:
Tell no one of these thoughts and plans.
If you do, it won’t be difficult to put a pinch of poison in your wine.
Masked Man:
Did you seriously think you were the only one who saw the shame in this?
Don’t worry. I shall tell no one who would not be inclined to aid you of this exchange.
Best of luck, my lady.
Intrigue is a street that cuts both ways.
Ermengard:
I know it well.
Thank you for your advice.”
- Ermengard, Act 1
A/N: This idea fought me more than I liked. I'm not sure how it is now, but it does answer some questions about why the Countess of Clermont was willing to scheme with Herbert to kill her daughter-in-law. Of course, this is only one interpretation of events. We'll get to the others soon enough, although I will use this play as a source again.
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He does. This plan went well, but I doubt such things will last.
He likes to think that he is good at everything. Whether or not that's true... remains to be seen.
It wasn't an intentional reference - I was just using the trope.
That's the beauty of CK, isn't it?
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Two schemers, both alike in intrigue-y / In fair Vermandois where we lay our scene / From ancient claims break to assassin-ing / As peasant's blood makes royal hands unclean.
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Good to see the latest here. Realize you have a lot of other gardens to tend, but noticed this was off its usual cadence.
Sometimes the best results come from the ideas that fight you. Glad you fought through it and won. I like the idea of a play informing your story. Of course, it is a play based on the history of your story arc, so it works for me. (Could @Fool Esquire being challenging you to do it in iambic pentameter?)
Now, a bit of a tangent, but an important notice....
This and other AARs in this forum and elsewhere are eligible in two on-going awards polls.
First there is the 2023 Q3 AARland Choice Awards (ACAs). There's also the bigger 2023 Yearly AARland Year-end AwAARds (YAYAs).
As this is one of the best CKIII AARs, in my opinion, it will definitely show up on my ballots.
Please note: even those who don't usually comment are welcome to vote.
This is very clever @Fool Esquire ! A Shakespeare reference in the comments! I now wonder if I am high class enough to be reading this?
Sometimes the best results come from the ideas that fight you. Glad you fought through it and won. I like the idea of a play informing your story. Of course, it is a play based on the history of your story arc, so it works for me. (Could @Fool Esquire being challenging you to do it in iambic pentameter?)
Now, a bit of a tangent, but an important notice....
This and other AARs in this forum and elsewhere are eligible in two on-going awards polls.
First there is the 2023 Q3 AARland Choice Awards (ACAs). There's also the bigger 2023 Yearly AARland Year-end AwAARds (YAYAs).
As this is one of the best CKIII AARs, in my opinion, it will definitely show up on my ballots.
Please note: even those who don't usually comment are welcome to vote.
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I liked it a lot. It gives us some sense of how the world views these events. Very interesting.
The only question is, how the play ends and whether Ermengard succeeds.
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You are too kind, my poetry skill is almost nil.
I will check out those polls!
I will check out those polls!
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The Scheming Continues (Narrative/Play)
“(Ermengard is waiting outside a window at the Castle of Clermont)
Ermengard:
My son’s new and shameful bride has proven resilient.
She refused to drink the poisoned drinks,
And she is never alone.
I cannot end this shameful farce alone.
(A bird flies by, dropping a letter in the window. Ermengard picks it up and reads it.)
Ermengard:
This strategy could work,
But it will require a lot of effort and cooperation.
Even a single betrayal could destroy it.
I must meet with the others.
First, though, I must ensure that I am not caught.
(She lights a fire in the hearth and throws the letter into it. She then watches the evidence burn with a smile on her face.)
(Enter Masked Man)
Masked Man:
No one else is present here, correct?
Ermengard: Don’t worry.
My husband is busy touring our realm.
My foolish son is enjoying his time with his new wife away from me.
We can safely talk as long as the servants don’t tattle.
Masked Man:
How necessary is it that they hear this conversation at all?
I would prefer to keep this as secret as possible.
Trust is not something that I have in spades.
Ermengard:
That won’t be an issue.
The only servants with a chance of hearing this conversation are mine.
I am no fool.
Masked Man:
Excellent.
Do you know who I speak on behalf of?
Ermengard:
You speak for the Carolingian, and I can well guess why.
Fortunately, our interests are the same.
I will not betray this cause -
Not even under torture.
Masked Man:
That is good news indeed.
Now, shall we scheme?
Poison and ambush have failed,
Yet I believe that I have found a new means to bring about our goal.
Your daughter-in-law is lowborn.
I hope that she knows the ways of the ruling class…
Ermengard:
You wish to use diplomacy?
(Servant #1 enters and gives Ermengard tea.)
Ermengard (as an aside to Servant 1):
Thank you, my dear.
(Servant #1 leaves while Ermengard offers the Masked Man a cup of the tea. The man gratefully accepts. Both drink.)
Masked Man:
I wish to use the ceremonies of our glorious kingdom.
Count Herbert wishes to speak with your husband in private.
He hopes that such an engagement will open up an avenue of assassination.
Ermengard:
I doubt that will succeed.
My son spends all of his time with his new wife.
Even if my lord were no longer an obstacle,
I must find a way to keep this act a secret from my son.
He will never forgive me if I relieve him of his marriage,
And I worry that I might injure or even kill him by accident.
Masked Man:
Can you think of any reason to separate them?
Ermengard:
I can think of plenty of reasons.
My lovesick son will reject all of them like the fool he is.
Masked Man:
Does her family have any other enemies within your lord’s county?
It wouldn’t take much to pass it off as an accident.
Ermengard:
If I could convince them not to implicate me,
Using other lowborn people would work excellently.
It would be a fitting way for her to go out -
She tried to ingratiate herself amongst the nobles,
But, in the end, her peasant enemies killed her…
That would send a perfect message.
Masked Man:
Can you gather the information, then?
Ermengard:
Yes. No one has to know that I was involved at all,
And the plan could outlive both me and your master.
It would not be so reliant on cooperation.
Masked Man:
The Carolingians thank you, my lady.
(Masked Man exits.)
- Ermengard, Act 3
A/N: The scheme continues. Sunday's update should cover the end of this play, and next Wednesday's update should conclude this arc about the assassination of Ermengard's daughter-in-law... and next Sunday's update might continue the entire arc reimagined as a comedy. I haven't decided yet.
Ermengard:
My son’s new and shameful bride has proven resilient.
She refused to drink the poisoned drinks,
And she is never alone.
I cannot end this shameful farce alone.
(A bird flies by, dropping a letter in the window. Ermengard picks it up and reads it.)
Ermengard:
This strategy could work,
But it will require a lot of effort and cooperation.
Even a single betrayal could destroy it.
I must meet with the others.
First, though, I must ensure that I am not caught.
(She lights a fire in the hearth and throws the letter into it. She then watches the evidence burn with a smile on her face.)
(Enter Masked Man)
Masked Man:
No one else is present here, correct?
Ermengard: Don’t worry.
My husband is busy touring our realm.
My foolish son is enjoying his time with his new wife away from me.
We can safely talk as long as the servants don’t tattle.
Masked Man:
How necessary is it that they hear this conversation at all?
I would prefer to keep this as secret as possible.
Trust is not something that I have in spades.
Ermengard:
That won’t be an issue.
The only servants with a chance of hearing this conversation are mine.
I am no fool.
Masked Man:
Excellent.
Do you know who I speak on behalf of?
Ermengard:
You speak for the Carolingian, and I can well guess why.
Fortunately, our interests are the same.
I will not betray this cause -
Not even under torture.
Masked Man:
That is good news indeed.
Now, shall we scheme?
Poison and ambush have failed,
Yet I believe that I have found a new means to bring about our goal.
Your daughter-in-law is lowborn.
I hope that she knows the ways of the ruling class…
Ermengard:
You wish to use diplomacy?
(Servant #1 enters and gives Ermengard tea.)
Ermengard (as an aside to Servant 1):
Thank you, my dear.
(Servant #1 leaves while Ermengard offers the Masked Man a cup of the tea. The man gratefully accepts. Both drink.)
Masked Man:
I wish to use the ceremonies of our glorious kingdom.
Count Herbert wishes to speak with your husband in private.
He hopes that such an engagement will open up an avenue of assassination.
Ermengard:
I doubt that will succeed.
My son spends all of his time with his new wife.
Even if my lord were no longer an obstacle,
I must find a way to keep this act a secret from my son.
He will never forgive me if I relieve him of his marriage,
And I worry that I might injure or even kill him by accident.
Masked Man:
Can you think of any reason to separate them?
Ermengard:
I can think of plenty of reasons.
My lovesick son will reject all of them like the fool he is.
Masked Man:
Does her family have any other enemies within your lord’s county?
It wouldn’t take much to pass it off as an accident.
Ermengard:
If I could convince them not to implicate me,
Using other lowborn people would work excellently.
It would be a fitting way for her to go out -
She tried to ingratiate herself amongst the nobles,
But, in the end, her peasant enemies killed her…
That would send a perfect message.
Masked Man:
Can you gather the information, then?
Ermengard:
Yes. No one has to know that I was involved at all,
And the plan could outlive both me and your master.
It would not be so reliant on cooperation.
Masked Man:
The Carolingians thank you, my lady.
(Masked Man exits.)
- Ermengard, Act 3
A/N: The scheme continues. Sunday's update should cover the end of this play, and next Wednesday's update should conclude this arc about the assassination of Ermengard's daughter-in-law... and next Sunday's update might continue the entire arc reimagined as a comedy. I haven't decided yet.
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Nice! Technically they're in Clermont, but that's a minor detail.
I already have one poetic AAR that I need to finish. Also, the necessary syllables required for iambic pentameter would almost certainly fight me too much.
Glad you liked the update!
Thanks for advertising the ACAs and the YAYAs. I kind of forgot to do that. My bad.
It's nice to know that this worked!
Those questions will be answered soon... and the reader might want to think on whether or not the ending counts as a "success".
Thanks!
The poetry that you posted was good. I appreciate it!
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Good to see you continuing down this different path @HistoryDude . Yes, definitely a challenge to make this a comedy.
I think it is a bit awkward to advertise these in your own story thread. I haven't done it in my AAR, but thought it would be a service to others if I could post it in their comment section. Voting for the ACAs closes in five days (at this writing) by the way.
(King Þorolfr has stumbled in here to give you a blessing and wish you well in the voting.)
Looking forward to the next update.
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Son: "Mom, are you planning to kill my wife?"
Lady: "What?! Of course not!! I would never even think of doing such a-"
delivery guy walks in "I gotta box of poison for uhhhh Lady Ermengard?"
moment of silence
Lady: "...I can explain" laugh track
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Not only a poet but a comedy writer too! The talent abounds here. I am definitely in company beyond my station.
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I wonder how far removed this play is from the events of our story. Is it meant to show the Carolingians' genius or their talents of deception?
! Sounds very interesting!
I for one would be open to that
! Sounds very interesting!- 1
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