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Crusader Kings II

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For me (and speaking without any expectation of another CK game), I think it isn't a matter of whether there should be mini-games or not, but how well they fit into the general character of the game, and whether they're good. For example, King of Dragon Pass has a mini-game in which you must choose the right successive responses for an initiatrix who is seeking the benefit of a god, and it fits in seamlessly. On the other hand, KotoR wasn't merely a dull RPG (in my opinion), it's mini-games were desigend for the arcade set, which wasn't its core audience. There was a lot of negative of negative response to these, and they were cut out of the followup title.

What sort of mini-games would fit into a turn-based CK followup, though? Heal the Leper, as lepers shoot down on you from above like a medieval version of Asteroids? Defend the Witch, having you play king of the hill against attacking guards? ;)
 
Bertouch said:
For me (and speaking without any expectation of another CK game), I think it isn't a matter of whether there should be mini-games or not, but how well they fit into the general character of the game, and whether they're good. For example, King of Dragon Pass has a mini-game in which you must choose the right successive responses for an initiatrix who is seeking the benefit of a god, and it fits in seamlessly. On the other hand, KotoR wasn't merely a dull RPG (in my opinion), it's mini-games were desigend for the arcade set, which wasn't its core audience. There was a lot of negative of negative response to these, and they were cut out of the followup title.

What sort of mini-games would fit into a turn-based CK followup, though? Heal the Leper, as lepers shoot down on you from above like a medieval version of Asteroids? Defend the Witch, having you play king of the hill against attacking guards? ;)
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QFT

Now, as a player (and lover) of Romance of the Three Kingdoms I can say that they incorporated the mini-games well enough for it to not become tedious quickly; however, a mini-game in a paradox title? It just comes off as gimicky and detracts from the overly strategy :S
 
Personally, I loved the dynastic aspect of CK. It's actually why I always come back to CK. What I'd really love to see though is an option. I'd like to control both a nation AND a dynasty, that way when my dynasty dies out I can continue playing. I know that EU:Rome has pretty much the same thing, but from what I've heard the dynastic aspects of it are pretty shallow compared to CK.

So in other words, I'd like to play as a Kingdom/Duchy/County but focus on a dynasty rather than the other way around :p.
 
It would be great to "play" also characters of your dynasty in other courts (as long as they are loyal to their dynasty leader ...)
Would be cool ... playing your cousin in the Vatikan, your knight brother who serves the king of Polan or your widowed mother who is an ambassador at your rival's court.
 
Count Lake said:
Second, even though CK has been shown to be a weak seller, an expanded market presence created by the great success both Rome and EU3 have enjoyed would ensure improved viability for CK 2's success. Building off the fan base generated by these two recent games, Paradox can be assured of a strong built in audience and tons of preorders.
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I only started playing paradox games since EU3 was released and got into CK from there so there should be a greater fan base 2nd time around.Having said that i bought EU:Rome of the back of EU3 and CK DV and i was bitterly disappointed.CK is by far my favourite of all my paradox games.
Hopefully CK2 will also have a EU3:IN converter and be less buggy
 
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L'Afrique said:
Deus Vult (Latin 'God wills it), the expansion to CK. You can download it at gamersgate.
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Thanks for sending this link to me!! I will get it once I master the current version I have of this game. Was a boxed vesion of this game ever made, or is it just downloadable?


BTW, my 2cents on the question of changing the graphics to 3d: I hope they keep the graphics 2d because this is one of the few great strategy games out there (IMHO) that concentrates on game play and not on over the top graphics.

I'd love to see a CK2!!!
 
ManOnTheMoon said:
Thanks for sending this link to me!! I will get it once I master the current version I have of this game. Was a boxed vesion of this game ever made, or is it just downloadable?
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Yes, but the orginal game was released in 2004. So you will have to search hard to find a boxed version.

Though a boxed version of CK+DV has been released recently, look here
 
ManOnTheMoon said:
Thanks for sending this link to me!! I will get it once I master the current version I have of this game. Was a boxed vesion of this game ever made, or is it just downloadable?


BTW, my 2cents on the question of changing the graphics to 3d: I hope they keep the graphics 2d because this is one of the few great strategy games out there (IMHO) that concentrates on game play and not on over the top graphics.

I'd love to see a CK2!!!
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It's only available for download. If you're worried about losing the game because of GG going down or just want a CD, it's quite simple to simply copy the entire CK-DV folder to a disc after installing. You would need to update this disc with every patch, but other than that there shouldn't be any problems.

EDIT-I meant DV only, but apparently it's been released as well. Never mind then. Typing with a French keyboard takes too long. :(

There's no need to worry about 3D graphics being detrimental to gameplay. Despite what some people might say, EU3's complexity is easily on par with its 2D predecessor unless you desperately want historical events and monarchs. Seeing as how you're a CK fan, I doubt this is the case. Admittedly Rome is rather dull, but I think it's just a one-off failure if IN is anything to go by.
 
timetogetaway said:
Now, as a player (and lover) of Romance of the Three Kingdoms I can say that they incorporated the mini-games well enough for it to not become tedious quickly; however, a mini-game in a paradox title? It just comes off as gimicky and detracts from the overly strategy :S
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Agreed. And let me just add, it's nice to see another follower of the RotTK titles, which will be returning to the PC with an English-language version, at the end of the month. :D
 
timetogetaway said:
Now, as a player (and lover) of Romance of the Three Kingdoms I can say that they incorporated the mini-games well enough for it to not become tedious quickly; however, a mini-game in a paradox title? It just comes off as gimicky and detracts from the overly strategy :S
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What you seem to miss is that most Paradox games are a bunch of mini-games melded together. In EU2, for example, you've got a colonization game, a trading game, and a war game. Vicky has a war game and an economic/industrial development game. CK has a little bit of war game, RPG, empire management, and so on. Most of the time, these games are seamlessly connected, but they can often have very little to do with each other. By their very nature, grand strategy games combine multiple disparate elements.

So, I don't have a problem with Paradox including other elements. Obviously, Bertouch's silly examples would not fit. But why not mini-games related to spymaster activities or court intrigue? Additional RPG or social sim elements? A simple trading game ala EU2? CK's war elements could probably do with some added complexity, too, since they're very light compared to other Paradox games.
 
Calanctus said:
What you seem to miss is that most Paradox games are a bunch of mini-games melded together. In EU2, for example, you've got a colonization game, a trading game, and a war game. Vicky has a war game and an economic/industrial development game. CK has a little bit of war game, RPG, empire management, and so on. Most of the time, these games are seamlessly connected, but they can often have very little to do with each other. By their very nature, grand strategy games combine multiple disparate elements.

So, I don't have a problem with Paradox including other elements. Obviously, Bertouch's silly examples would not fit. But why not mini-games related to spymaster activities or court intrigue? Additional RPG or social sim elements? A simple trading game ala EU2? CK's war elements could probably do with some added complexity, too, since they're very light compared to other Paradox games.
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No, no. What you seem to miss is that those are essential elements to and, when combined all together, form a strategy game, not some shoddy RTS where you amass a ton of units then rush something, but a game that attempts to simulate real-world politics. Which just so happens to include industrial, war, and colonial elements in Vicky (and to a lesser extent EU:3), RPG-Elements to the Dynasty based CK, and.... Well, I do not touch HOI:2.

Mini-games related to spymaster/court intrigue comes in the form of events. Additional RPG or social sim elements comes in the form of events. A simple trading game ala EU2 belongs in EU2. As for added war complexity? Well, it is rather complex if you break it down and think about it, but yes I will agree with you on that I would not mind seeing a little more beefing up of the war system.
 
timetogetaway said:
Wait, you cannot do that now?
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If this was addressed at me, then no, not really. I could save at a certain date, load and play as the man who inherits my ill-fated dynasty, then just wait until I actually do inherit, but I'd prefer it to be less of a hassle and for it not to feel like cheating, if you can get what I mean.

To be honest I'm less interested in playing as a medieval dynasty than I am playing as a dynasty in 1453 - 1821, EU3's time frame. It'd be interesting to see dynasties fall to Republics/Democracies and the like. But this is the closest I can get and I am happy with it.
 
L'Afrique said:
There's no need to worry about 3D graphics being detrimental to gameplay. Despite what some people might say, EU3's complexity is easily on par with its 2D predecessor unless you desperately want historical events and monarchs. Seeing as how you're a CK fan, I doubt this is the case. Admittedly Rome is rather dull, but I think it's just a one-off failure if IN is anything to go by.
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Historical events as missions and decisions came back with In Nomine expansion ;)
 
Take a little of Rome's character system and population dynamics, and combine it with the In Nomine engine... and you have the perfect framework to build CK 2 on :)

I hope Paradox will do it, CK is after all these years still my favourite Pdox game.
 
timetogetaway said:
No, no. What you seem to miss is that those are essential elements to and, when combined all together, form a strategy game
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They're not "essential," because plenty of strategy games do without them. EU2 and CK have no industrial development model. It's outside of the period. CK doesn't even have trade, and while I would like to see trade implemented in a future installment of the series, I can't say it's not a strategy game because it lacks a real economic dimension.
Mini-games related to spymaster/court intrigue comes in the form of events. Additional RPG or social sim elements comes in the form of events.
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Fond of events, aren't you? ;) There's a lot you can do with them, but events are not a mini-game (how do you "win" at events?) and often they are an inelegant brute force solution. I would rather see these things integrated organically into the game.
A simple trading game ala EU2 belongs in EU2.
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Why do you say that? Do you think that trade was some wondrous invention that people did not discover until after the Middle Ages?
 
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