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Sadly I have to say both are great in their own ways (darn cliches). If you like to get into the intense battles of 10,000 men and organizing military units without worring TOO much about strategy with only 12 factions, get MTW. Now if you are into the strategic portion like me, having your troops battle for you while you manage diplomacy with MANY countries and is historically accurate, get CK.

This is pretty much like choosing between a King vs a General, do you want to control your realm or do you want to take charge of your battles?
 
Originally posted by Idiotboy


Things are progressing. That´s great. Now about that beta......:D

Looking forward to trying to get into the exclusive gruop of testers...:)

how small the chance may be...
 
Good to hear the great news! :)

If the Alpha is finished tonight, it means that betatesting is indeed not that far away. But expect it nether this week or the next.

Yet I can't wait either... I want to know more! More! More!!! :D

Drakken
 
Originally posted by Avenger
MTW is out now in retail. Lots of people have it. Any impressions on MTW? Was it as good as you expected?

--Avenger

It's great. :D Much better than Shogun in the strategic game,and the amount of unit types.Teutonic Knights and the Order foot rock.Also it gets fun crusading,then trying to hold on to what you have seized when the computer starts a jihad to regain it's territory.Plus when you crusade,You usually get some interesting units like Knights Templar and Hospitlier to play with.

Only flaws so far,is that the AI can get little too aggressive for it's own good and the Mongols seem weak when they show up(they only last a couple of turns before the AI bumps them off).Plus the strategic map gets too "busy" sometimes and crowded with units.

Some tips:

1)Don't piss off the pope.Excommuication is not fun,especially when the pope calls for a crusade against you.Either follow what the pope says,or bump him off. :p

2)Peasants are worthless.Really all they are good for is absorbing arrow fire and the enemies first charge.Then they run.

3)Once you get a spare heir,get the Heir Apparent into an army and get him into a few fights.I have noticed they generally pick up fewer bad vices if they are active,instead of sitting in a castle till the king dies.

4)Build up a network of assassins and spies in each of your provinces.Send assassins after inqusitors and priests of opposing faiths.Have assassins and spies follow your armies into enemy territory.It sucks when your high ranking commander gets bumped off by an assassin or an Inquistor gets him because you leave the saftey of your own provinces.
 
Hmmm....

.... tried it and I must say that it is Total War and rather similar to Shogun. The tactical battles are basically the same. Some tweaks on flanks, unit AI etc, but in most the same thing.
The strategic part has been made deeper. Still a bit boardgame over it, but a clear improvement.
The game will not make you disappointed if you like Shogun. If you hated Shogun, don't even think of Medievel... :D
The only bad thing as I see it is the huge hardware demands. My notebook grapic card don't cut it out... :( Even though Shogun does..... With a 32Mb graphic card it is still not 100%. So you need some good hardware to even consider the game....
A very good game, well worked and definetly worth the money.....
 
Re: Hmmm....

Originally posted by bmolsson
....
A very good game, well worked and definetly worth the money.....

...of a brand new PC??:D ;)
 
Originally posted by kurtbrian


As far as I can tell

wouldn't comparing these two games be a bit like comparing EU with a RTS game?
Actually, it would be like comparing something (RTS game) with something that is completely different (EU engine) and doesn't yet exist (CK).

Let's compare modern soft drinks with 22nd-century fashion clothes, instead :eek: :D
 
I only have a 750mhz processor and the game runs smooth as silk. The secret to the game running well is a good graphics card and lots of RAM.
 
My friend got the game as well. Tried it out at his house (ca 7 hours of gameplay, cigarette breaks not included).

My conclusion: naaaaaah.

Strategic part deeper then Shogun. Still, feels a bit vague and hunting that darn princess over the map is plain pain in the ass.

Not to mention that things get pretty crowded on the map: my beloved heirs, princesses, assassins, spies etc etc running around the map. I usually lose sight of them over a few turns. Or they gather into one province and live there happily ever after, blocking my view. Not to mention when enemy decides to join the party as well- you cannot find anything in the map. By the other words- yadda yadda, interface, yadda yadda.

Feels like a boardgame, moving buttons all over the place. A 3D boardgame without much depth.

One thing i never understood- neither in Shogun or MTW- why the hell can we have info only about adjactent provinces. And i don't mean detailed info- i mean small little things like who in the bloody hell owns that darn province. Come on, to know the exect borders of your neighbouring country, you don't need to have a spy or something. And the bother of checking if your opponent is a nice 2-province country or does it's belongings extend to the Black Sea...

Too many "special units", too crowded map (i didn't even dream of playing with "show opponent's moves" on), AI leaves a bit desired as well.

Tactical part. Well, tactical part looks nice. Units act the way they perhaps would have acted in real life. Dunno. Not much complaints there. Just that i don't fancy tactical combat, i prefer to turn my attention to grand strategy. Sometimes i fight, but usually prefer to let my generals do the fighting. I'm happy if they tell me the outcome and even happier if they tell me that we won.

Overall: i don't intend to buy it. My friend loves the game. It just depends, i guess. Just not for me.
 
Originally posted by Martinus

Actually, it would be like comparing something (RTS game) with something that is completely different (EU engine) and doesn't yet exist (CK).

Let's compare modern soft drinks with 22nd-century fashion clothes, instead :eek: :D

I think you're pretty unfair with Boyard's point, as harshly as he put it.

CK and MTW are both about medieval strategy. While there are technical big differences, on a marketing point of view, they'll strike similar audiences - and are competitors, far more than CK will be with Counter Strike for example.

So grand strategy in CK has to be more interesting than in MTW, if not because of MTW's battles. This way, many players will buy CK for its more satisfying strategy.
 
MTW

MTW is a big improvement on STW and is just a couple of fixable problems away from being a huge improvement and a great game.

The biggest problem has already been noted in this thread: there just gets to be too damned many spies, assassins, bishops, inquisitors, emissaries, etc., which are counters that clog up the game map. If a small province like Navarre winds up on the border between two important nations--which is not at all improbable--there will be so many unit counters crammed into the province that it will be virtually impossible to find the one you want. The "solution" is that you can use your mouse wheel to zoom in on the province until a small part of the province covers the entire screen, but even so it is sometimes hard to pick out the one you want, and all I can say is that is basically a laughable solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

If MTW could take the entire "special agent" system and reduce it to spreadsheet-style places where players can allocate funds and choose special actions the game would be 100% improved. As is, by the time you get to the latter stages of a campaign the map gets so crowded with soecuak units and micromanaging them all gets to be so tedious that the game virtually becomes unplayable. Basically, the game encourages you to constantly purchase strategic units throughout the game--and the AI does this as well. There get to be literally hundreds of them on the map.

That said, it is undeniable that the strategy game in MTW is GREATLY improved over the strategy game in STW, which was indeed more than a little bit reminiscent of Risk, IMHO. Building the type of economy that can support tech upgrades and the building and support of a huge high-level army requires a lot of thought and attention, good building choices and careful attention to which leader is assigned which province and which office. Diplomacy is certainly not up there with EU-style diplomacy, but it is much more significant than was diplomacy in STW. The strategic AI also leaves something to be desired--once you are at war, it is virtually impossible to get a peace, and the AI will attack you sometimes with suicidal odds.

The tactical battles are still the meat and potatoes of MTW. If you hated the tactical battles in Shogun, don't buy MTW because they are basically the same. The AI is spiffed up a little but not a lot, but the most significant change is that there are probably 10 times as many troop types as there were in Shogun, and there is a lot of replayability in experimenting with different factions and different troop types.

If you HAVEN'T played Shogun, then I will just say that the tactical battles are excellent, the 2nd-best tactical combat simulation of any computer game (Combat Mission is the best). It is true that things happen way way too fast, but you can give orders while paused, so as long as you are willing to hit pause frequently, you can pretty much maintain full control over the battle. (In fact, for realism purposes, you pretty much have TOO MUCH full control, since you can instantly change the orders of any unit on the battlefield. I saw the phrase "telepathic generals" used earlier in this thread, which accurately describes the only way you could get that kind of control in reality. However, I must say I would rather have too much control than not enough. The game system certainly allows the player to create elegant tactical victories.)

An interesting sidenote on my personal experience: I played a fair bit of EU, but I always played either as England in the Grand Campaign or as Iroquois in Fantasia. I think that was at least partially because, although I think I know more about medieval history than most Americans, I found all these "Mainz joines Wuertemburg and Muenster in their war against Aragon" messages to be incomprehensible and confusing. MTW has much larger provinces and only about 1/3-1/2 as many provinces as EU, so it was a good learning aid in starting to get a grasp on the geography of medieval Europe.

I originally gave up on EU, not because I was tired of it, but because other games came along and I didn't feel totally comfortable about plunging into the mess of Continental politics and war. I bought EU II but never played it! However, MTW made me want to play some EU II and I have been having a lot of fun with it the last week and a half. I definitely miss the great tactical battles from MTW, but EU II is certainly a superior strategy simulator when compared to the strategy portion of MTW.

I AM into warfare and combat, though, so I am not really satisfied by EU combat. I think a full tactical simulation a la MTW would be a bit too much for a game of EU II's scope--hell, it may be too much for MTW--but I would like to see something in between that at least allowed the player to choose battle tactics and level of force commitment (i.e., probe to desparate assault). I would also like to see some differentiation between melee units and ranged-combat units, with a combat resolution process that took that into account. (What comes to mind is Conquest of the New World-type combat resolution, which I do not remember in detail but I do remember allowed you to set up your troops in a front rank and second rank.)