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I am also curious will we still be talking that everything is still ok ? Or maybe we finally acknowledge problems and start managing this product like proper product management should be ? And also want to remind about my 3d modeling services proposition still in place 
kind regards.
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Yeah it's in a bit of a mess at the moment, to put it kindly
I'm not sure how CO are going to get out of this death spiral - I am sure though that ignoring players' legitimate concerns by handwaving them away as "toxicity", and rehashing old dev diaries as Word of the Week posts, is emphatically not helping.
@co_martsu - time for a rethink Mariina?
I'm not sure how CO are going to get out of this death spiral - I am sure though that ignoring players' legitimate concerns by handwaving them away as "toxicity", and rehashing old dev diaries as Word of the Week posts, is emphatically not helping.
@co_martsu - time for a rethink Mariina?
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We'll keep working on the game as planned. Eventually we'll see what comes out of it. We still won't tolerate toxicity. Constructive criticism and feedback is always welcome. I'll write something about the feedback process in the next word of the week, thanks for the suggestion!
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Modding, asset importer, map editor. Needs to be released ASAP if this game has any chance of future life. Should NEVER have been released without it. The only reason I pre-ordered and didn't ask for a refund was because we were all informed that modding was days/weeks away, we are now near the five month mark. Frankly.. not acceptable for a game whose franchise depended on the lifeblood of the modding community to extend its lifespan by years and years.
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@co_martsu, thank you for the response and you're welcome.
I do think you're making a mistake here, carrying on regardless - it's not working Mariina, you're failing your paying customers by refusing to countenance an increased patching cadence. I understand you're a small team trying to get to grips with some very large problems, and all the negativity surrounding the game must have come as an unpleasant surprise after the positivity CS1 engendered, but surely you have to change course at some point and implement a new plan to get out of this mess?
Honestly, I admire the way you're sticking to your guns in the face of such an onslaught, but it can't carry on like this.
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Simulation speed is the main problem, it's always been that.
With a proper simulation speed i would still playing my city, instead, after 500k was a disaster, i managed to reach 900k, but it was frustrating to play at that simulation speed (0.1-0.4)
To see that even on threadripper it's unplayable.... it was sad.... cause it means that without optimizzation we need to wait a looot of time to play big cities.
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As long as it is only the recent reviews which are mostly negative it doesn't really matter. Those will be replaced by better reviews if/when the game improves.
I don't see a death spiral at all. I see a lot of players who wants CS2 to be good, but have gone back to CS1 while waiting for that to happen. For the long term life of the game it likely won't matter a whole lot if it takes one week, 3 months or 9 months as long as there is no real competition to the CS franchise by the time CS2 becomea a good game.
No. Those have to be released in a working condition, but for the long term it doesn't really matter if that is today or a couple of months from now. A completely broken release of those features on the other hand would likely make matters worse. Performance also needs to be improved ASAP, but that really isn't something which can easily be done well with feequent patching. Modding support doesn't really matter a whole lot if people stop having fun a few hours into a new city because performance tanks.
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Nobody will agree on what is the main problem. For some like you, it's the terrible performance. Others will blame the hundreds of bugs. Others will blame the lack of editors and modding support. Others will blame the failsafes and a simulation so easy you can't fail, which makes the game a city painter (not a bug but a feature).
Positive Steam ratings have tumbled since last year. Now at 39%, when will the fall stop? It's been 4 months already. People are sick waiting for a mostly bug-free, reasonably optimized, somewhat challenging game, something everybody expect from any game (and add the official modding support, this game being the sequel to one of the most modded games ever).
Buying a game isn't buying long-term promises.
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And others again would say CS1 was a city painter which was so easy you couldn't fail. There are many things wrong with CS2, including the failsafes, but it being an easy city painter isn't one of them. That is what people have been playing for the past 9 years.
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I find it really interesting that some people on here are very, or largely, negative about the game while others think that it is the best game ever produced. While we all have differing expectations, it's almost as if some people are playing a totally different game to others.
I have confidence that CS:2 will be improved into something that meets the requirements of many. The size of "many" will depend largely upon how long that takes and how much patience there is in the customer base. Much of that comes down to how CO/PDX manage the coming months.
I only played CS:1 for about 29,000 hours and, in the end, work and a certain amount of boredom stopped me then. CS:2 was an exciting opportunity to kick start my interest in the game and I was really up for it. I gave the game 600 hours or so of road testing and really wanted it to work for me. However, with what I want from the game and the direction that CO appear to be taking, I just don't see it ever being the game that I want, or expected, to play.
I've gone back to CS:1 but I miss the (few) advantages that CS:2 offer (sharper graphics, better road tools, that sort of thing). I now feel like I am left out on a limb - neither title quite give me what I want. I suspect that many other long term city builders are in the same position as I am and that this is some of the reasons why so many are turning their backs on Cities Skylines in all forms.
I have confidence that CS:2 will be improved into something that meets the requirements of many. The size of "many" will depend largely upon how long that takes and how much patience there is in the customer base. Much of that comes down to how CO/PDX manage the coming months.
I only played CS:1 for about 29,000 hours and, in the end, work and a certain amount of boredom stopped me then. CS:2 was an exciting opportunity to kick start my interest in the game and I was really up for it. I gave the game 600 hours or so of road testing and really wanted it to work for me. However, with what I want from the game and the direction that CO appear to be taking, I just don't see it ever being the game that I want, or expected, to play.
I've gone back to CS:1 but I miss the (few) advantages that CS:2 offer (sharper graphics, better road tools, that sort of thing). I now feel like I am left out on a limb - neither title quite give me what I want. I suspect that many other long term city builders are in the same position as I am and that this is some of the reasons why so many are turning their backs on Cities Skylines in all forms.
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* Very few people have played CS1 for 9 years.
* CS1 is not challenging enough for some but it's still way more challenging than CS II. The traffic alone was a headache for lots of people.
* Anyway, just because someone wasn't challenged enough by CS 1 (and possibly got tired of it in a matter of weeks) doesn't mean they can't blame CS II for not offering a greater challenge.
I'm a detailer, always playing with unlimited money and lots of mods, so I don't care about this kind of challenge, but contrary to you, I perfectly understand people who does.
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I would never devote as many hours to a game, any game (CS II 5 hours a day for 4 months ? Seriously?
) but I'm one of these long term city builders you're talking about. Though I'm regularly tempted to reinstall it, CS1 isnt enough anymore for me. As for CS II, it's a complete bore. So I don't play any CS. Waiting and waiting and waiting... and disappointed (sometimes downright insulted) by CO's communication.- 7
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The reviews and player counts are going downhill and you can't see a death spiral? <insert "This is fine" dog in burning building meme>
You're right though, more half baked buggy features will not help this game.
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Eh TBH at this point, having spent 60+ hours in the game and watching 90% of things people complain about just turn out to be things they saw after 5 minutes and were then too lazy to pay attention to see that it actually works fine, or they were too inattentive to notice the depth and complexity of the simulation.
Must be grueling for CO to have to listen to 90% BS complaints and have to suck it up because they made some mistakes on launch, and the game has bugs.
Far better that CO ignores the children still whining and whinging, and focuses instead on fixing what remains to be fixed, and implementing features to unlock the games vast potential.
Must be grueling for CO to have to listen to 90% BS complaints and have to suck it up because they made some mistakes on launch, and the game has bugs.
Far better that CO ignores the children still whining and whinging, and focuses instead on fixing what remains to be fixed, and implementing features to unlock the games vast potential.
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That would certainly explain why people had such high expectations for CS2
The traffic jams didn't really cause you to fail though. The game was simply to easy for it to really matter.
People can blame CS2 for whatever they want. They can however not expect everyone else to share the same complaints, nor for CO to listen to those complaints. CS1 should be evidence enough that people do not primarily play the CS franchise to be challenged. It is therefore very reasonable for the devs to make CS2 as an easy city painter.
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For sure each one will have its own preferences, but I think it's fair to say that there are issues that are more details and wishes, and other issues that are making playing impossible.
Personally, I find the speed the biggest one. Yesterday I had a look in developer mode and my simulation with 150k was running between 0.15x and 0.25x most of the time, with the biggest queries being material distribution and taxis, and my PC is not exactly a wheel cart. This makes the game just unplayable.
I do love the game, I'm one of those who tried to go back to CS1 but, even with all mods and expansions, after "tasting" CS2 it's just not good any more. And I really love it while it's running, but from 100k onward it has been an agony.
So I would definitely put performances at the first step, with no doubt. Once the game is playable, then everything else can come.
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Quite right, I never really had any major bugs on my rig, other than simulation speed once my city started reaching around 300k. I probably had one crash to desktop.
Obviously my earlier comment about releasing asset importer, modding and map editing was clearly intended as release bug free, despite brynjars insinuation that I'm advocating for yet another bug riddled mess.
The point is, people are leaving/not playing for a wide variety of reasons. Some of those reasons is the complete lack of being able to personalise and customise your cities.
This is why I, and for many others in my position, state that releasing those tools will go a significant way for player retention.
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People expected a finished game. People often do that, unless they see "early access". These silly people with their high expectations...That would certainly explain why people had such high expectations for CS2
Lots of things mattered, like evidenced by the hundreds of tutorials and threads asking for help. When you need help in CS II, that's because you tripped on a bug.
Nobody said that they did. In fact, I did the contrary, exposing how subjective are the priorities for each player and how it's impossible for everybody to agree.
As for CS having more success as an easy city painter... well, look at how succesful it is.
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Anyone asking for increased patch cadence, should aske themselves, how it would actually help?
That is a serious question. Game has many issues and requires many, many fixes and updates.
Here we have seriously consider what kind of time scope we are looking at. It is not weeks or even months, it is much more.
Having increased patch cadence will just slow down this process, less fixe, less updates overall for a very small short-term benefits. Do we really want that?
The small, regular patches might sound great, but how much are they actually worth if they do not address major issues and actually slow down work on those?
Let's ask ourselves, do we want the game to be reasonably patched or updated in 1 year time or 2 years time? Yest, that's the time scale we are working here with.
Myself I would prefer lower patch cadence, but overall better game in 1 year, than weekly small updates and waiting another year or 2 for actual, measurable improvements.
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