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Sir 25 fps in 1920 resolution on low is not what we call "smooth" this is what we call BARELY.

I didn't say fast, I said equally smooth. For me, as long as there are no stuttering and the movements are fluids, it's smooth, independently of the FPS.
I did see that the FPS are fairly low, but it's not a first person shooter, personally it doesn't bother me. When simulation goes to 0.1x, that is bothering... and I would say, to anyone.
 
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We'll keep working on the game as planned. Eventually we'll see what comes out of it. We still won't tolerate toxicity. Constructive criticism and feedback is always welcome. I'll write something about the feedback process in the next word of the week, thanks for the suggestion!
It's not toxicity, it's realistic.

There are lots of positive things on CS2: graphics (quality, detail, seasons,...), road tool and potential (and I am being optimistic and having faith in you after many years following and playing CS1)

But there are still lots of negative things on CS2, but the key point is that feel that the game is more basic and has less options than we had on EARLY CS1. And that many things that came up in CS1, hasn't come to CS2. For example, why there is no zone selection or modification like appeared lately on CS1? Because building path, remove them it's not an option, and also it doesn't work right sometimes. Why there is no props for decorations? A few trees and a path, that's it. And we have to put each tree, we can't make lines for example. Why there are no official support for mods, assets, maps FROM THE BEGINNING? CS1 was great and keep alive thanks to it (like happened in the past to other games of the same kind like SimCity 4). People outside the company has already, despite all, create some mods in a couple of months that work with the game using a third-part platform! Still the new options, like the cut/fill option for road is incompleted and doesn't look good (always shadow, and when you look closer the terrain disappears, same for tunnels). Speaking of tunnels, it's a pain to build one, specially if you had a high mountain, and the video you released explained how make it, it's a shame more than a solution. We had mods on CS1 (and they have already appeared on CS2) that we could choose between bridge, elevated, stick to terrain or tunnel, why not something similar adding the cut/fill and pier options, which would make things much easier and realistic, like the mods?
We can also talk about the economy, which our only option is move a sliding bar ot taxes that affect the whole city, at least we could have some more control if we adapt it to districts, because it feels like we don't have any real control over it at all. I think that adding special buildings or more different zoning will be too complex, but would be the only way to thing we actually can do something to have some kind of industry or commerce in the city.
Even European and American Style are much more simple than was in CS1. We only can choose 1 service building (we had two in CS1) and there is almost no difference between the residential / commercial buildings of the styles, they can be in both, maybe only in the mix used we can say we have different styles. In CS1 an European City looked very different from an American one.
We had LUTs on CS1, and this was missing in CS2

Not even a terrain editor/creator tool at release, and the quality of the maps included is by far, very low. Look at the last CC of maps you released on CS1 and look at the maps you released, it's a big step backwards! Railways that looks like a rollercoaster, for example.

And of course, delaying CC that was already paid (Ultimate Edition of the Game). Sorry but I don't get the "we don't release more paying content for the game until is fixed" when you already sold it with a release date.

For all those reasons it's why my review on Steam is Negative.

And a bad feeling I am having about DLC is that we will have to buy the very same as we bought in CS1: Airport, for more freedom to create airports, Park Life, for more freedom to create parks (another thing we can discuss about CS2), Campus, for more freedom to create university campus... and so on. But this is not on the negative side of the review, but would be in the positive side of a review if at least come of the mechanics of those DLC where in the game itself. Because the mechanics expanding buildings can't be related or similar to what we have on the DLC. We don't have any options or creativity to expand buildings, just add more capacity or possibility attached to main building, and finally all buildings look almost the same.

Finally I won't say performance (as everyone was complaining about it and it's still complaining) is one of the bad things. I have a computer just a little bit under the recommended specs and I run it at 50-60 fps with everything in high up to 60k population cities (at this point I just abandoned the game until it's finally fixed, sorry). Even on release, that I would criticize the bad look of LOD, but the game ran ok on my setup, back then using medium-high settings for graphic quality (i5 12400, SSD, 32 GB RAM and RX6750XT).

Finally we would like to know, beyond fixing the game and releasing what should have the game (Mods and Editor), what's planned to add to the game.
 
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I have a computer just a little bit under the recommended specs and I run it at 50-60 fps with everything in high up to 60k population cities (at this point I just abandoned the game until it's finally fixed, sorry).
Indeed, my setup is fine up to 100k, beyond that it's an agony. But 100k is a fraction of the available map and you haven't even finished the progresses of the city.
Which raises an interesting point, I think.
It looks like the architecture behind the simulation is actually fine, it runs well in principle. The issue seems to be the scalability, it's just not sustainable when it grows too much. Which is why I think there should be some sort of hybrid simulation as I suggested in this thread https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/suggestions-to-improve-simulation-speed.1624786/ to cope with the limitations of the machines where the game is running.
 
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Indeed, my setup is fine up to 100k, beyond that it's an agony.
Which raises an interesting point, I think.
It looks like the architecture behind the simulation is actually fine, it runs well in principle. The issue seems to be the scalability, it's just not sustainable when it grows too much. Which is why I think there should be some sort of hybrid simulation as I suggested in this thread https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/suggestions-to-improve-simulation-speed.1624786/ to cope with the limitations of the machines where the game is running.
I am almost sure they have not used even such basic thing as LOD of 3d models. Every model in game is always at full mesh density....that why it works bad, and that is why I offer my 3d services to them because I could teach them a lot. But for them and their level it like I am talking about flying cars ^^
 
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I am almost sure they have not used even such basic thing as LOD of 3d models. Every model in game is always at full mesh density....that why it works bad, and that is why I offer my 3d services to them because I could teach them a lot. But for them and their level it like I am talking about flying cars ^^
On my setups (Ryzen 7 5800, 3070, 128GB ram and i7 alienware area51 with 2070) the bottleneck are the queries, that is what is slowing down the game up to the point of stopping the simualtion.
 
Yes, sure they use LoD. You can switch off the transition between the detail levels in the graphics options and you'll see how the assets visually change their appearance when zooming in/out. Watch the trees! There's also some LoD related visual bugs which have been reported (truck trailers, car tires, roof structures).
Or you can set the detail level to maximum in developer mode and see what happens. ;)
 
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On my setups (Ryzen 7 5800, 3070, 128GB ram and i7 alienware area51 with 2070) the bottleneck are the queries, that is what is slowing down the game up to the point of stopping the simualtion.
Quite the same here.
Ryzen 5 5600, RTX3060, 32GB.
No problem with the graphics but with populations over 300k the game becomes really slow.
 
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Quite the same here.
Ryzen 5 5600, RTX3060, 32GB.
No problem with the graphics but with populations over 300k the game becomes really slow.
I wish I could reach 300k... What I have noticed is that each city seems to hit the CPU limit at a different point, which would make sense if the bottleneck is due to the path-finding queries, which would be related to the road and transportation layout of the city itself. I guess my idea of best road layout doesn't match with the one of the game :D
 
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At this point I really hope some competing game does a suprise launch and takes the genre by storm. Our Palworld/Helldivers of city building.

Some competition in this genre would benefit everyone short and long term. Putting out rushed out releases with tons of bugs and missing features would't be an option anymore. Neither would terrible communicationa and roadmap strategy.

But even if the game improves, I think the harm it did to the community as a whole, trust in the developers, content creators etc will never be the same again.
 
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Anyone asking for increased patch cadence, should aske themselves, how it would actually help?

That is a serious question. Game has many issues and requires many, many fixes and updates.
Here we have seriously consider what kind of time scope we are looking at. It is not weeks or even months, it is much more.
Having increased patch cadence will just slow down this process, less fixe, less updates overall for a very small short-term benefits. Do we really want that?

The small, regular patches might sound great, but how much are they actually worth if they do not address major issues and actually slow down work on those?

Let's ask ourselves, do we want the game to be reasonably patched or updated in 1 year time or 2 years time? Yest, that's the time scale we are working here with.
Myself I would prefer lower patch cadence, but overall better game in 1 year, than weekly small updates and waiting another year or 2 for actual, measurable improvements.

I follow a lot of early acces games (including builders) and also games from smaller studios than even CO.

Yet when they are pressing issues they sometimes manage to curn out a patch per week for bigger issues (and CS2 has many of those) and sometimes stuff is hotfixed within 24 hours across different platforms.

The only reason why they are slowed down patches is because it takes a lot of effort testing, communicating, certification etc that takes away manpower for churning out paid DLC and the console version, cause they need the revenue stream before the holidays. More patches would only delay those and don't bring in new money.

I was fooled by EA, but this hurt me. Paradox and CO.. Shame on you !

Same. I will check out game updates in the future but I will not spend money on DLC

And I really hope all the people who are angry actually keep their wallets closed as well. It is the only thing we as consumers can do to show our unhappiness. It is is the only way to make change happen.

Luckily the past months it seems a lot of gamers are fed up by the game industry. While games like Palworld, Enshrouded and Helldivers take over the world by storm. Other big names are in huge troubles with playercounts or players spending money. Skull And Bones, Suicide Squad, Destiny 2 etc. People are finally all started to vote with their wallets.
 
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The game has solid bones, but there are issues that destroy any sense of reward or progression. The worst part is that they show up many hours into one city. Simulation speed is a good example. But for my city, other issues have cropped up too. The worst, because it is both aesthetic and functional, is the fact that I have had 0 demand for medium residential areas in 2 in-game years. I can only build high-rise. And I do not want to. People would rather be homeless than move anywhere else though. I won't start a new city because I have 0 guarantees that something won't wreck the next one too.
 
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At this point I really hope some competing game does a suprise launch and takes the genre by storm. Our Palworld/Helldivers of city building.

Some competition in this genre would benefit everyone short and long term. Putting out rushed out releases with tons of bugs and missing features would't be an option anymore. Neither would terrible communicationa and roadmap strategy.

But even if the game improves, I think the harm it did to the community as a whole, trust in the developers, content creators etc will never be the same again.
CS2 release was a dumpster fire in terms of performance, simulation etc. But dumpster fires can be easily put out if done right. Basic humility, actual transparency over what happened and what they are doing to resolve it and keeping the promises they made would have gone along way in starving the fire of oxygen.

CO’s response was throwing in litres upon litres of gasoline and then threw in a few hydrogen bombs for good measure, then proceeding to argue with the residents of the building that they were at fault for the fire knocking out the entire city.

I just hope CO is able to rebuild the city again.
 
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We'll keep working on the game as planned. Eventually we'll see what comes out of it. We still won't tolerate toxicity. Constructive criticism and feedback is always welcome. I'll write something about the feedback process in the next word of the week, thanks for the suggestion!
I hope this question is not toxic:

Why do we have to wait for DLCs until you release patches for the broken / non working stuff?
 
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CS2 release was a dumpster fire in terms of performance, simulation etc. But dumpster fires can be easily put out if done right. Basic humility, actual transparency over what happened and what they are doing to resolve it and keeping the promises they made would have gone along way in starving the fire of oxygen.

CO’s response was throwing in littes upon litres of gasoline and then threw in a few hydrogen bombs for good measure, then proceeding to argue with the residents of the building that they were at fault for the fire knocking out the entire city.

I just hope CO is able to rebuild the city again.
This analogy made me laugh out loud. Thanks

I think CO is just too slow to actually make up for all the promises they made before release and to fix what is broken.

No matter what the CEO says or doesn’t say the company doesn’t seem to have enough manpower, time or skill to put out all the small fires when they appeared. We are 4 months after release and they barely moved the needle. We also have no roadmap either.

I hope some other developers or company sees an opportunity to fill this hole there is left from this debacle. Competition is good for everyone and will keep CO on their toes in the future.
 
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They haven't charted anything though, there's no roadmap and CO/PDX refuses to release one, it's been 5 months since release and the game has only progressed from "very broken" to "fairly broken," and we have no idea what they're working on.
Those of us who knows how to count the number of months from October to February, and have read the words of the week regularly have some ideas about what they are working on.

We also have no roadmap either.
What would you put in such a roadmap? PDXmods, bug fixes, and performance improvements? It's not like wasting time making a roadmap is going to tell us anything we don't already know.

I think CO is just too slow to actually make up for all the promises they made before release and to fix what is broken.
Due to the current city builder market being pretty much only the CS franchise I don't see any way they can be too slow other than being so slow than an actual competitor to CS 1 and 2 emerges. CO took a couple of years to slap together a pretty bare bone game when SimCity crashed and burned. And that was with large parts of the traffic stuff already covered from their previous games. I wouldn't expect any half decent competitor to emerge any time soon.
 
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I find quite funny that there so many people more interested in seeing a 0.1x simulation with cars crawling through streets and people moving like zombies in slow motion and simulation time going at 1 minute each 30 of real time, but at 60FPS, rather than a playable game running at the desired speed at 30FPS, which is more than enough for fluid animations :D I guess everyone has bought the game for a different reason.
 
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We also have no roadmap either.

I think there are 2 main reasons why we have no roadmap:

1. CO doesn't have roadmap either. I strongly suspect that they do not have even rough idea how long it will take to address many of the issues.

2. If they showed their own internal roadmap, the players would be even more unhappy, after seeing how far away are the real improvements.

Just have a look at asset mods, it went from "close to release", to "delayed" to "hopefully in fall".
Same for console release.

The only thing that they could probably put on the roadmap with approximate release dates, are the DLCs, as those are mostly (3/4) asset packs and are unrelated to fundamental game issues.

In short, their current roadmap probably looks so bad and is no unreliable, that publishing it would cause even more backlash and more disappointment.
At the same time, openly admitting that they have no idea how long certain issues will take to sort out, would also cause a lot of backlash.
It is lose-lose situation for CO either way.

I think that at thins point, many posters here, expect or actually demand some kind of miracle to happen.
The game can improve a lot, but it will take a very long time, not a month, not a quarter, maybe not even a year, but a lot longer.
 
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Only Paradox is authorized to publish a roadmap.

Someone recently published a Reddit post (or a screenshot of it) from PDX regarding a roadmap. I can't find it right now, but maybe someone knows what I'm talking about.
 
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