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unmerged(6905)

unmerged(6905)

Retired EU gamer
Dec 18, 2001
832
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attilio.freeblog.hu
Greetings to all Paradox Forum members.

I would like to ask Paradox if some Cuman events will be included in Crusader Kings. THhe Cumans nomadic East Turkic people, identified with the Kipchaks (or the western branch of the Kipchaks) and known in Russian as Polovtsi. Coming from NW Asian Russia, they conquered S Russia and Walachia in the 11th cent., and for almost two centuries warred intermittently with the Byzantine Empire, Hungary, and Kiev. They founded a nomadic state in the steppes along the Black Sea, and were active in commerce with Central Asia and Venice. In the early 12th cent. the main Cuman forces were defeated by the Eastern Slavs. The Mongols decisively defeated the Cumans c.1245. Some were sold as slaves, and many took refuge in Bulgaria and also in Hungary, where they were gradually assimilated into the Hungarian culture. Others joined the khanate of the Golden Horde (also called the Western Kipchaks), which was organized on the former Cuman territory in Russia.

Cumans were important in Hungarian history because after the Mongols invation, the population of Hungary was very low and IV. Béla needed settlers to increase the population. Cumans were such, after they arrived as refugees they were given the central part of Hungary


sites about the Cumans:


http://historymedren.about.com/library/prm/bl1mongolinvasion.htm

http://www.idg.hu/expo/hosok_tere/gero/BelaIV.html

http://www.komondor.org/html/history.html by the way Köten khan was also called Köpen...

P.S.: I hope there is still time to discuss this until the release:(
 
Originally posted by Hrv123
Yeah, Im guessing Cummans will be in, they must be in.
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Of course they will be in - they owned a huge section of land in southeastern Europe in 1066. Whether they will be playable is a different matter entirely...
 
i think in terms of colonization the german arrival after the mongol invasion was more important for the character of the hungarian kingdom at the time. maybe youll be able to invite people after the mongol invasion at some cost to stability or something alike, since they were an alien people.
 
Originally posted by Attila
I would like to ask Paradox if some Cuman events will be included in Crusader Kings.
Click to expand...

Yes, indeed, the Cumans (Polovtsi) are in, and they've got a rather nice setup in 1066. Thanks Lord they are not Christian, or else World Conquest (wonder how you will be calling it in CK?) would be too easy :cool:.

Btw, the Cumans actually were not the first to flee into Hungary and Wallachia, first they threw remnants of Pechenegs there in 1080s.

Duke in Red
 
Originally posted by Attila
Thanks!

But, will there be a Cumanevent for Hungary to invite them to the plains ? (After the Mongol invasion IV.Béla invited them to settle in the region of Szolnok and Kecskemét)event.
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will there be events in EU2 sense in CK at all? I am not sure.
 
Originally posted by Endre Fodstad
I sure hope so, or it will be a rather dull game!

EF
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Why would that be?? :confused:

We are making our own history with this game. With EU2 as an example, if Portugal or Spain do not exist at the time of the ToT then it doesn't happen. So in CK with things not necessarily following a specific historical path there is more chance that things like this would not happen. There are of course things over which a player has no control (merchant republics, Muslims) which could follow history pretty closely and have events of their own. :)
 
AFAIK there will be events, but they might be a bit different than the EU2 events.

The EU2 events as they appear in the standard GC are "historical" in such a way that they happend more or less no matter what. In CK e.g. since there are no historic persons once we get past the first generation(s) there can't be any person-dependant event...
 
Originally posted by Havard
AFAIK there will be events, but they might be a bit different than the EU2 events.

The EU2 events as they appear in the standard GC are "historical" in such a way that they happend more or less no matter what. In CK e.g. since there are no historic persons once we get past the first generation(s) there can't be any person-dependant event...
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Well, not necessarily. For those persons not of noble houses (like Peter the Hermit of Bernard of Clairveaux) there may be events concerning them...
 
Originally posted by Sonny
Why would that be?? :confused:

We are making our own history with this game.
Click to expand...

Because we do not make our own history with this game. The potential variable in any "what if" situation are too many to handle for any human brain or computer and cannot be efficiently be simulated by CK -except- in the case of easily simulated geopolitics. Besides, extraeuropean developments must be simulated by events. In addition some events must occur to provide any illusion of development. The superiority of the relatively small number of events in EU2 to EU1, with three events, is marked.

Without events, no Black Death, no mongol invasion, etc etc.

EF
 
Originally posted by Endre Fodstad
[B....................
Without events, no Black Death, no mongol invasion, etc etc.

EF [/B]
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O.K. I'll agree that non-personal events would be included. But to have an event where Hungarians invite Cumans to settle in their lands would seem to me to be too dependent on things that may not happen. WHo are the Hungarians? They are a dynasty and who knows who would rule that dynasty at any specific time in CK history?

:)
 
With a small bit of research, CK can be chock full of events without becoming person-spesific. I mean, we're talking about the period that more or less set the standards for future western civilization here!

EF
 
Originally posted by Sonny
O.K. I'll agree that non-personal events would be included. But to have an event where Hungarians invite Cumans to settle in their lands would seem to me to be too dependent on things that may not happen. WHo are the Hungarians? They are a dynasty and who knows who would rule that dynasty at any specific time in CK history?

:)
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Yes but the dinassty leader should have the opportunity to invite Slovak, Saxon, Cuman, Romanian et cetera refugees after the mongol invasion, shouldn't he ?
 
Originally posted by Attila
Yes but the dinassty leader should have the opportunity to invite Slovak, Saxon, Cuman, Romanian et cetera refugees after the mongol invasion, shouldn't he ?
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Maybe. If the mongols don't wipe the Hungarian dynasty out.:D
 
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