DD Tech tree and Naval Combat Improvement mod

[egslim]

18/11 Minor update: http://egslim.nl/tech-DD061b.rar
Changelog 0.61b:
Minor fixes

11/11 New version available:
Changelog 0.61:
Added manpower cost for building IC
More realistic assembly line tech effects: Increased buildtime, decreased buildcost, decreased overall IC*days
Until the 1940-1942 Land doctrine techs all paths except Blitzkrieg now have lower MaxOrg for Arm divisions than for Inf and other types. So until then only the German player can effectively use Armoured divisions.

08/07 New version available
Changelog 0.60:
Added compatibility for '41 scenario.
Some minor balance tweaks
Changed Allied naval AI to be much more aggressive.

DD-SMEP4.5d is also available, and fairly low on bugs.

26/06 Minor version update:
Changelog 0.51
Some minor bugfixes and issues solved

Alpha release of unofficial SMEP for DD: http://egslim.nl/DD-SMEP4.5d.rar
I'm in no way affiliated with either the original SMEP or the "unofficial SMEP for Doomsday" project.
More info in the other thread, since this is really a completely separate project from tech-DD.

09/06 New version:
Changelog for 0.50
Adjusted CAG research difficulty
Progressively increased IC cost for all late unit models - '51 Infantry costs twice as much IC compared to '36 Infantry
(Hopefully) improved AI's counter-intelligence
Tweaked research AI
Reduced sub org/increased morale and naval attack (C.O.R.E - system)
Removed "Long Range Gun" tech
Added "Napalm" and a "Ballistic Missile" techs

01/06 Minor version update:
Changelog for 0.41
Decreased Nav cost
Increased Nav naval detection
Renamed Nav "Naval Patrol"
Modified AI files to reflect these changes
Copied HOI2 Esc-F country specific names to DD Esc-F brigades
Works with 39 scenario
Added country specific names and pictures for Canadian Navy

30/05 Version for Doomsday 1.2:
Changelog for 0.40
Works with DD 1.2
Works with 38 scenario
Added several country specific model names and pictures
Changed SSM effects
Fixed Stealth stats
Removed Weserübung flottilas
Increased research difficulty for CAGs
Gave Navs stats more suitable for a maritime patrol bomber instead of a shipkiller
Lowered range for jetaircraft compared to their propellor driven predecessors

25/05 New version
Changelog for 0.30:
Added 20 new Air Doctrine techs for turbojetaircraft
Added 2 new Secret Weapons (mid-air refuelling)
Added tech-pictures for all techs.
Added country specific model names and pictures for the US Navy.
Fixed unit naming bug (new units would receive country tags).
Changed stealth aircrafts to more realistic dates and stats.
Rearranged SS/SSN models.
Checked/balanced all convoy raiding stats.
Added appropriate CAG techs to US, UK and JAP in '36 scenario.
Added unofficial DD autopromote fix.

18/05 New version:
Changelog for 0.21:
Some minor bugfixes.
Added several tech-pictures.

Changes for 0.20:
Lots and lots of bugfixes.
Changed naval ranges, since the game has trouble with doctrine-driven naval ranges.
Added 4 new models of TP's - you need naval doctrines to unlock them. Base Strike does so quickly, Sealane interdiction slowly.
Added Secret Weapon techs, and new Industrial techs.

About this mod:
This mod aims to do two things:
1) Add new techs to existing branches, to cover the increased timespan offered by DD.
2) Rework both the naval tech system and stats to improve the realism of naval combat.

If you would like to help, I appreciate any of the following:
Feedback on (possible) bugs.
Feedback on the outcome of naval battles, to check balance. AI vs AI seems to work ok, but human play may be different.
Additional unit/country-specific model/minister/leader names, and likewise pictures that can be added to the Paradox-provided ones.


To give an example:

For Infantry, Armor and Aircraft I added mostly one additional model to every branch. Plus an alternative branch to Motorized Infantry: Armored Cavalry. It is weaker, especially on the defensive, but also has higher speed and hardness - makes a nice combination with Armored, like a modern armored cavalry regiment.

New manufacturing techs, each gives a 15% bonus - down from the Vanilla 20% bonus per tech, but these are twice.
Additional radar techs, the early ones increase naval detection too. I gave the Agriculture techs a more gradual flow, with a period of three years.

Each doctrine path has two added techs. No spectacular changes, though. German and US doctrine now both end with 100org/90mor. Mass Assault grants the same bonus Art receives to SP-Art with the second tech.

Major changes. Pocket battleships can only be built by countries with the Sealane Interdiction Doctrine. Specialised ASW ships are like the frigates and sloops of the RN used for the battle of the Atlantic. They are weaker compared to destroyers, but also cheaper and allmost as effective against subs.
Super Heavy Cruisers are like the Alaska class. Not visible here but also added is a pre-Dreanought class of battleships. AA-Cruisers are CL's with their surface armament replaced by AA guns. There are nuclear power ships too - with higher range, but much more expensive.
Stats are completely reworked. Battleships were loaded with AA-guns - a US battleship shot down 26 aircraft in a single day during the Battle of the Solomons, their air-attack now reflects this. Cruisers were used to operate in remote areas, where it was too difficult to send sufficient supplies for larger ships. This is now reflected by their longer range. DD's are the only vessels useful against subs, all other ship types had their sub-attack stats nerfed.
Light carriers now carry CAG's. Newer CV's and CVL's have improved combat stats, so CV1's plus latest model CAGs lost much of their attractiveness.
Researching a BB4 not only gives acces to the BB5 tech, but also to DD3, CA3, etc. And vice versa. So it is no longer necessary to research every branch from scratch, if you have to play catch-up with the naval powers.

Again, major changes. If Germany is succeslful at land the Mahanian techs give Sealane Interdiction the ability to rival the Allied navies. Until then, German CV's and TP's suck - no more amphibious assaults in South Scotland or Canada in '40, the English Channel is enough of a challenge with 200km TP range. For the landing in Narvik Germany starts out with one more advanced TP with higher range, but won't be able to build more until they research the necessary doctrines.
Schnorkel gives a decrease in visibility, at the cost of lower speed. This only concerns the first 4 sub models, the later ones had higher underwater speed.
After completing a nuclear BB or CV tech the Nuke Escort techs give increased range to CL's and DD's to accompany the Capital Ships.
Finally, the "Efficient Shipyard" techs represent a slight, historical edge for some countries. Japan excelled at night surface combat, USA had the advantage of reading both the German and Japanese code and Britain produced ships at lower cost than anywhere else.

Several new secret weapons! Most of them are based on a suggestions thread I opened a while ago, though I only used the somewhat realistic ideas.

 

[Spricar]

http://egslim.nl/DIM01.zip

About this mod:
This mod aims to do two things:
1) Add new techs to existing branches, to cover the increased timespan offered by DD.
2) Rework both the naval tech system and stats to improve the realism of naval combat.

To give an example:

Major changes. Pocket battleships can only be built by countries with the Sealane Interdiction Doctrine. Specialised ASW ships are like the frigates and sloops of the RN used for the battle of the Atlantic. They are weaker compared to destroyers, but also cheaper and allmost as effective against subs.
Super Heavy Cruisers are like the Alaska class. Not visible here but also added is a pre-Dreanought class of battleships. AA-Cruisers are CL's with their surface armament replaced by AA guns. There are nuclear power ships too - with higher range, but much more expensive.
Stats are completely reworked. Battleships were loaded with AA-guns - a US battleship shot down 26 aircraft in a single day during the Battle of the Solomons, their air-attack now reflects this. Cruisers were used to operate in remote areas, where it was too difficult to send sufficient supplies for larger ships. This is now reflected by their longer range. DD's are the only vessels useful against subs, all other ship types had their sub-attack stats nerfed.
Light carriers now carry CAG's. Newer CV's and CVL's have improved combat stats, so CV1's plus latest model CAGs lost much of their attractiveness.
Researching a BB4 not only gives acces to the BB5 tech, but also to DD3, CA3, etc. And vice versa. So it is no longer necessary to research every branch from scratch, if you have to play catch-up with the naval powers.

Again, major changes. Range is now the most important difference between the doctrines. Base Strike gives good positioning, but poor range until the RN begins operating in the Pacific - 1944. Sealane Interdiction gives large range to some shiptypes - Pocket Battleships have an operating range of 10,000km. If Germany is succeslful at land the Mahanian techs give Sealane Interdiction the ability to rival the Allied navies. Until then, German CV's and TP's suck - no more amphibious assaults in South Scotland or Canada in '40, the English Channel is enough of a challenge with 250km TP range.
Schnorkel gives a decrease in visibility, at the cost of lower speed. This only concerns the first 4 sub models, the later ones had higher underwater speed.
After completing a nuclear BB or CV tech the Nuke Escort techs give increased range to CL's and DD's to accompany the Capital Ships.
Finally, the "Efficient Shipyard" techs represent a slight, historical edge for some countries. Japan excelled at night surface combat, USA had the advantage of reading both the German and Japanese code and Britain produced ships at lower cost than anywhere else.

For Infantry, Armor and Aircraft I added mostly one additional model to every branch. Plus an alternative branch to Motorized Infantry: Armored Cavalry. It is weaker, especially on the defensive, but also has higher speed and hardness - makes a nice combination with Armored, like a modern armored cavalry regiment.

This looks great!!! How come nobody replied yet?

 

[unmerged(54975)]

WARNING it dosn't work well with the new picture cards

 

[jamius]

This looks very cool. Does it work?
How do you add this mod to DD? I mean, how do you install it?

 

[Spricar]

This looks very cool. Does it work?
How do you add this mod to DD? I mean, how do you install it?

just overwrite the vanilla DD files with those in the mod

 

[Spricar]

Just one question...I tried the mod and it feels great! The only problem I found is, that I somehow can't abandon certain naval doctrines. As Germany I wanted to choose other than sealane interdiciton. I abandoned all its doctrines up to the basic sealane interdiction which I couldn't. Any idea why? Maybe the pocket BBs are the reason...

 

[Maximilian I]

http://egslim.nl/DIM01.zip
no more amphibious assaults in South Scotland or Canada in '40, the English Channel is enough of a challenge with 250km TP range.

sounds good all in all.

however, how do you land in Norway/Trondheim/Narvik with that range?

 

[Jebus]

Is the AI modified to be able to handle all these changes?

 

[Eldin]

I love this, are you going to be modifying more?

 

[Stoppelhopser]

Very nice mod!

I like to split between the CV and CVL. Did you think on including CVEs - which could be represented by the original DD CVLs. The escort carriers were important for the successful Hunter-Killer groups. I would suggest to improve their ASW capabilities and reduce defence and sea attack values. As they became quickly obselete, since newer and larger planes could not use them, 3 types would be enough (i.e. the remaining CVL slots).

Some more general comments:
a.) I always wondered, if it is logical to have an upgrad path from the Me109k to the Me163 (rocket interceptor), which was a (almost pointless) point defence weapon. It was most deadly to its own test pilots...

b.) I would like to see an artillery division. Slow moving, heavy consumtion and high SA value. The Soviet had these and all other armies created concentrations, where they needed to punch a hole. The French HoI MOD33 is already using free garnision slots for Soviet siege infantry and French fortress infantry

Okay, my 2 cents...

Cheers
PS: I'm translating the models.csv to German

 

[Barkdreg]

Looks nice. I do see one problem with this mod. The AI will always build the latest available version, this means it will only build AA light cruisers once it researched those techs. Same with destroyers and ASW destroyers

 

[Jebus]

Looks nice. I do see one problem with this mod. The AI will always build the latest available version, this means it will only build AA light cruisers once it researched those techs. Same with destroyers and ASW destroyers

Not only that, but the AI would obviously have to be modified as to research this new techtree properly: as to not ignore vital techs for that nation, or rush techs that they do not need. Secondly, the build prorities and fleet composition AI's would have to be modified too. Until then, this mod will most likely only be playable in multiplayer.

 

[Burning]

Hi egslim!

Your mod is really... awesome.
How long did it take to rewrite the techtrees(espcially the navy & navy doctrines)?

After playing a bit, i found 2 small bugs
Default range, of the PocketBB is 8000 oO (should be 800 i think?)
in db\units\divisions\battlecruiser.txt (line 119)
As germany, in the GrandCampaign your start with the Pre-Dreadnought(Graf Spee) in your buildingqueue. It should be a Pocket-BB (change model = 5 to 4)
in scenarios\1936\germany.inc (line 853)

thanks again for your addon!

edit: wow, after 2 years & 2 months reading the fourms, my fist post

 

[unmerged(54975)]

this mod is not that good i don't think cos the ships have ranges similar to that of rowing boats

 

[syphy]

this sounds really interesting. any idea if it will work with DAIM?

 

[egslim]

Wow, I had almost forgotten about this thread - after a week without any replies I didn't expect any more. Apologies for the long wait!

Meanwhile I've done a _lot_ of updates and bugfixes. Download the new version: http://egslim.nl/tech-DD02.zip
(May be a bit slow)

WARNING it dosn't work well with the new picture cards

What picture cards do you mean? I used the standard DD pictures, with a few new ones in the same style for the new models.

This looks very cool. Does it work?
How do you add this mod to DD? I mean, how do you install it?

Thx I've done a lot of hands-off testruns. The mod (new version, linked to in this post) doesn't crash or something like that. Only the '36 scenario is complete, the others haven't been modified yet.

however, how do you land in Norway/Trondheim/Narvik with that range?

Good question. In the new version I made some changes to the range, because the game doesn't seem to like increased ranges through doctrines - it didn't apply them to all ships.
Now what I have done is made 5 different types of TP, each with a different range. You need advanced naval doctrines to unlock all types - Base Strike does so fastest, Sealane Interdiction slowest.
For Norway there is an event to give you 3 TP's, I plan to mod that event to make them TP3's - even though the German player at that time will only be able to build TP1's.

Is the AI modified to be able to handle all these changes?

Upto a point. The AI doesn't know how to deal with ASW frigates and AA cruisers, which shouldn't be used in surface engagements. So it doesn't build them. I also made some changes to research priorities, to do some more useful techs.

I love this, are you going to be modifying more?

I plan to add new unit and modelnames as they come along, finish the tech-pictures, add new "jetfighter" air doctrines, and add bugfixes (like the suicide aircrafts, which is fixed) as they are found.

I like to split between the CV and CVL. Did you think on including CVEs - which could be represented by the original DD CVLs. The escort carriers were important for the successful Hunter-Killer groups. I would suggest to improve their ASW capabilities and reduce defence and sea attack values. As they became quickly obselete, since newer and larger planes could not use them, 3 types would be enough (i.e. the remaining CVL slots).

I don't think that's possible, since they would be equiped with CAGs like all other CVL's. I'd have to use another battlecruiser slot for them.

a.) I always wondered, if it is logical to have an upgrad path from the Me109k to the Me163 (rocket interceptor), which was a (almost pointless) point defence weapon. It was most deadly to its own test pilots...

Yeah. Personally, I wouldn't even research the Me163 - unless I got bored. But if a person is serious about developing and building rocket interceptors, I think they should be given the opportunity to ruin their 109's.

b.) I would like to see an artillery division. Slow moving, heavy consumtion and high SA value.

Unfortunately, I'd have to sacrifice an existing type of division for that.

Looks nice. I do see one problem with this mod. The AI will always build the latest available version, this means it will only build AA light cruisers once it researched those techs. Same with destroyers and ASW destroyers

Thx. I know, that's why I put those techs under 'ignore' in the AI files for most large countries.

Not only that, but the AI would obviously have to be modified as to research this new techtree properly: as to not ignore vital techs for that nation, or rush techs that they do not need. Secondly, the build prorities and fleet composition AI's would have to be modified too. Until then, this mod will most likely only be playable in multiplayer.

I changed several AI files some for tech priorities and ignores. Because the AI weighs each field this problem is already lessened.
Build priorities/fleet composition are a different issue. But from what I observed during hands-off testgames the AI is too dumb to make intelligent use of shipabilities, wether they are standard DD stats or my modified stats.

Your mod is really... awesome.
How long did it take to rewrite the techtrees(espcially the navy & navy doctrines)?

Thx. I began the day the DD demo was released

Default range, of the PocketBB is 8000 oO (should be 800 i think?)

8000 is correct. You can only build PocketBB's if you have Sealane Interdiction, and I want the German player be able to raid the South Atlantic.

As germany, in the GrandCampaign your start with the Pre-Dreadnought(Graf Spee) in your buildingqueue. It should be a Pocket-BB (change model = 5 to 4)

Yeah, I found that one too. What you missed was Italy began with four nuclear powered battleships. All fixed now.

this sounds really interesting. any idea if it will work with DAIM?

Not very well, since DAIM doesn't match the added techs in this mod.

 

[egslim]

this mod is not that good i don't think cos the ships have ranges similar to that of rowing boats

The idea was to have players research doctrines for them to be able to operate over long ranges. And I want to force players to do island hopping/frog leaping. You may even need to build new naval bases - the US did so during WWII.
Unfortunately, range increases through doctrines aren't always applied to every appropriate ship. So I had to revise the system.

Additional readme:
General bugfixes/adaptions:
Fixed aircraft suicide missions
Fixed Ulithi/Truk as a staging base for Japan/USA ai
Changed some ports to their actual seazone
Modified Spanish AI/unit list slightly, to give Nationalist Spain a somewhat better chance in the Spanish Civil War.

Infantry:
Added one or two additional techs to each of the unit branches
Added a completely new "Armoured Cavalry" branch
Added three additional "Supply" techs, with a construction bonus for infrastructure

Armoured:
Added one or two additional techs to most of the unit branches

Aircraft:
Added an additional tech to each of the 5 bomber techs
Decreased aircraft naval attack. CAS is most effective against ships, Nav second.

Industry:
Lowered the construction bonus from "Assembly Line" techs from 20 to 15%, added a second series of "Assembly Line " techs with another 15% discount
Added additional Agriculture techs
Added additional Radar techs
Added three additional Encryption/Decryption techs
Increased ships' detection ability through industrial radar techs

Secret Weapons:
Nuclear powered ships have much better range and slightly higher speed, but also higher cost and their other stats are equal compared to their conventionally powered brethren.
Ultimate Super Heavy Armour is extremely slow

Land Doctrine:
Added two additional techs to each doctrine path
Added "Commando" branch, which gives a bonus to intelligence

Naval:
Modified air attack of all shiptypes to more realistic values. Battleships and heavy cruisers are up, light cruisers down. AA-cruisers have the best AA, but weaker naval attack.
Added ASW frigates, only effective against subs, but cheaper than destroyers.
Added Pocket battleships, with appropriate stats, they can only be built with Sealane Interdiction (listed as battlecruisers)
Changed battlecruiser stats: Same size/cost as a contemporary battleship, but weaker defense and higher speed. BC4 (Scharnhorst) has better defense but weaker attack.
The BC5 branch is continued as a form of "Super Heavy Cruiser" - Alaska class.
Added "Modernised Great War Battleship" class, with higher speed. Italian battleships. (Classified as battlecruiser)
Added pre-dreadnought for German BC1. Very weak.
Changed research prerequisites: To research a CL4 you need to have research either CL3, or one of the following: DD5, CA5, BB5.
Ship IC cost is halved, buildtime doubled.
CVL's carry CAGs. The ships themselves have improved stats, so CV1 + CAG9 is much weaker compared to a CV7 + CAG9
CAG's are researched independently
Added a branch of transports. Each generation has improved range. All of them are '36 techs, but wether they can be researched depends on your naval doctrine. Base Strike unlocks long range transports fastest.
Changed all ranges. DD, BB, BC, CV, CVL vary between 500 and 2000km. CA, C 1000 to 4000km. Subs upto 4000km. Pocket Battleships 8000km.
TP's have between 200 and 2200km.
Decreased all ships effectiveness against subs, improved destroyers

Naval doctrine:
Redid all positioning values. The different paths first diverge, then somewhat converge again after 1944.
Added additional techs for each branch.
Added Schnorkel tech, which decreases visibility for subs at the cost of less range and lower speed.
Added "Naval Tradition" techs, which give a small bonus to countries with a long naval tradition. They are 1946 techs - I imagine it takes some 10 years to build a tradition.

Changed some AI research priorities to make them research more important techs.

 

[unmerged(54975)]

if the biuldtime of ships has been doubled then some sips will take almost 6 years to build.

"Added Schnorkel tech, which decreases visibility for subs at the cost of less range and lower speed." so what are the benefits of this tech?

 

[egslim]

The longest buildtime is 1200 days, but that does not include discounts - Upto 30% with manufacturing techsalone , and not including the Hawk or Free Market bonusses.

Destroyers take more than 420 days to build, though.

Decreased visibility means the subs are harder to spot for enemy vessels, thus less likely to be engaged during convoy raiding missions.

 

[unmerged(48204)]

first of all, very nice idea's and great work egslim. i'm interested in any change which makes naval warfare more realistic. so it seems like you know how to modify some things. i'm especially very annoyed about the handling of subwarfare in general. i posted the following in another thread.

the point is, that subs and convois/escorts are treated completely different.
in reality, most subs were sunk by convoi escorts,naval bombers and hunter killer groops. in the game, the escorts and transports are only existent as numbers. so i would see the following system:
subs which are given the anti convoi duty task should NOT be detectable by ANY surface fleet. this way sub's should avoid fleet battles completly. on the other hand, subs should take much damage when fighting good escorted convois (this was the case in hoi I 1.05 or so). now (if i'm right) the escorts only decrease the number of convoi's sunken,but don't sink any subs. hunter killer groups can be modelled by an increase in escort number or effeciency.
if you want to gain naval supremacy, you have to sent your subs on patrol missions or whatever. this should be very ineffective with high losses for the earlier subs, but when modern or nuclear subs are developed, the should be very deadly (this subs should be much more expensive) against surface fleets.

what do you think about this? makes this sense, and of course is it mod-able. especially the damage of subs taken from convoi duty. would be kind if you could tell me your opinion on this.