Development of AoD 1.11

[Radomir.Canaris]

>then we need that a minister can speed up the construction of infrastructure

They already exist, if only as national ideas. But changing ministers to achieve the same is possible for modders already, just copy the entries from ideas to ministers..

oh, is that really possible? super!!!

So?



personality = {
personality_string = "administrative genius"
name = "NPERSONALITY_ADMINISTRATIVE_GENIUS"
desc = "DPERSONALITY_ADMINISTRATIVE_GENIUS"
minister_position = ArmamentMinister
#modifier = { type = production_category_mod value = production modifier_effect = 0.100 }
modifier = { type = province_project_mod value = infrastructure modifier_effect = 0.050 }
modifier = { type = province_project_mod value = ic modifier_effect = 0.050 }
modifier = { type = supply_consumption_mod modifier_effect = 0.1000 }
modifier = { type = retooling_time_mod modifier_effect = 0.1000 }
}


how can a minister affect the industrial capacity of a country ??? (modifier = { type = production_category_mod value = production modifier_effect = 0.100 })
I think it can only influence the economic growth (industrial / infrastructure capacity development)

what is your opinion?

 

[Radomir.Canaris]

>Also most buildings can be constructed outside a province and be placed into one afterwards.

yes, this is the problem, and it is not relistic!

then deactivate the production of province developments (infra, ic, anti air, radar, fortress,...) in the production menu!

infra cant be constructed outside a province. Or?

>I tend to agree that constructing buildings at higher infra will be cheaper
not much cheaper, but faster

what is the difference between 1 and 2?
1. modifier = { type = production_category_mod value = infrastructure modifier_effect = 0.100 }
2. modifier = { type = province_project_mod value = infrastructure modifier_effect = 0.1000 }

1 build of infrastucture is 10% cheaper?
2 build of infrastucture is 10% faster?

Or?

 

[Radomir.Canaris]

a hardcoded bug?

all sprites (stand, move, fire) for light tanks for Czechoslovakia is always the same as for France.

ex.
T-L_PANZER A-STAND C-CZE L-1.spr >>>>
Sprite = {
Bitmap = "T-L_PANZER A-STAND C-CZE L-1.bmp"


T-L_PANZER A-STAND C-FRA L-1.spr >>>>
Sprite = {
Bitmap = "T-L_PANZER A-STAND C-FRA L-1.bmp"

In the game i always see the sprite T-L_PANZER A-STAND C-FRA ....bmp for Light tanks of CZE ( not this T-L_PANZER A-STAND C-CZE....bmp), and this for each level (model) of light tanks of CZE.

(in all Versions of AoD)

please help

 

[Radomir.Canaris]

After a nuclear strike in a province with enemy units we saw decrease org of these units

Not sickness and death from radiation? Why the troops in the province are not destroyed after the atomic bombing?

Is it a bug or a feature?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

oh, is that really possible?

Yes. The enterprise focus social policy decreases the days for infra by 10% and for factories by 5%. The entries you quoted increase the needed days.

how can a minister affect the industrial capacity of a country ?

By increasing the ratio of effectice ic to base ic.

effective ic = base ic x (1 + tech modefier + ministers modefier + slider modifier)

So with +15% from techs, +25% from ministers and ideas and +25% from central planning effective ic can reach 1.65 times base ic.

what is the difference between 1 and 2?
1. modifier = { type = production_category_mod value = infrastructure modifier_effect = 0.100 }
2. modifier = { type = province_project_mod value = infrastructure modifier_effect = 0.1000 }

2 increases days needed to build infrastructure by 10%. 1 increases the days needed to repair buildings by 10%. That totals to 21% more days needed to repair infrastructure.

 

[Radomir.Canaris]

Y
how can a minister affect the industrial capacity of a country ?
By increasing the ratio of effectice ic to base ic.

ok in the game, and in reality?

1. modifier = { type = production_category_mod value = infrastructure modifier_effect = 0.100 }
increases the days needed to repair buildings by 10%. That totals to 21% more days needed to repair infrastructure.

2. modifier = { type = province_project_mod value = infrastructure modifier_effect = 0.1000 }
increases days needed to build infrastructure by 10%.

A) why increases day (time) and not cost?
(in the file minister_modifiers.txt from patch 1.10 is "infra repair cost", not time!)

B) But why 21% more days needed to repair infrastructure??? why not 10%:
modifier = { type = production_category_mod value = infrastructure modifier_effect = 0.100 }

C) Is a negative modifier at production_category and province_project_mod not always better?
ex. modifier = { type = production_category_mod value = supply modifier_effect = -0.2000 }

modifier_effect negative (= -0.2) = better = less time to build / less cost???

Is it right?:

# modifies production types
# value = production/consumer/supply/upgrade/reinforcement/infrastructure
# <no value> = all production types >> negative modifier_effect is always better?
# value = production (time to repair IC or IC repair cost?) >> negative modifier_effect is better or not?
# value = supply (time to produce supply) >> negative modifier_effect is better or not?
# value = consumer (consumer goods need) >> negative is better)
# value = upgrade (upgrade cost) >> negative is better
# value = reinforcement (reinforcement cost) >> negative is better
# value = infrastructure (infra repair cost) >> negative is better
production_category_mod = additive

but look here, is there something wrong???

personality = {
personality_string = "administrative genius"
name = "NPERSONALITY_ADMINISTRATIVE_GENIUS"
desc = "DPERSONALITY_ADMINISTRATIVE_GENIUS"
minister_position = ArmamentMinister
modifier = { type = production_category_mod value = production modifier_effect = 0.1000 } # positive!!! = better !!! A GENIUS can't be worse!
}
(from Patch 1.10)


D) Less time or cost to build IC??
modifier = { type = province_project_mod value = ic modifier_effect = -0.0500 } #
(from Patch 1.10)

 

[Pang Bingxun]

ok in the game, and in reality?

By decreasing corruption und increasing the utilization of resources including human resources. Bad adminstration results in idling of parts in applied split of labour. Better adminstration does it better.

IRL bad administration had been purposefully induced via espionage.

A) why increases day and not cost
(in the file minister_modifiers.txt is cost, not time!)

The thing is that for buildings ic does not vary, only days vary.

B) But why 21% more days needed to repair infrastructure??? why not 10%:

+10% for building infrastructure and +10% for repairing buildings total to +21% for repairing infrastructure.

C) I dont undestand:
is a negative modifier at production_category and province_project_mod not always better?
ex. modifier = { type = production_category_mod value = supply modifier_effect = -0.2000 }

A negative modifiers is better for input, a positive modifier is better for output. Effective ic, supply production, resource production and money production are output. province_project_mod however is always input. Also at costs for units negative modifiers are better. But there it applies to ic and days, so -10% actually totals to -19% icd.

D) Less time or cost to build IC??
modifier = { type = province_project_mod value = ic modifier_effect = -0.0500 } #
(from Patch 1.10)

Less time needed for factories.

 

[Radomir.Canaris]

production_category_mod >>> modification of time to repair / need / output (produce)
province_project_mod >>> modification of time or mod of cost to build / produce

you makes us difficult understanding the calculation

Is it right?:

# modifies production types
# value = production/consumer/supply/upgrade/reinforcement/infrastructure
# <no value> = all production types
# value = production (produce IC = output) >> positive is better
# value = supply (produce supply = output) >> positive is better
# value = consumer (consumer goods need) >> negative is better
# value = upgrade (upgrade time) >> negative is better
# value = reinforcement (reinforcement time) >> negative is better
# value = infrastructure (infra repair time) >> negative is better
production_category_mod = additive

 

[Pang Bingxun]

province_project_mod >> modification of time or mod of cost to build / produce

Like stated above only time is changed.

production_category_mod >> modification of time to repair / need / produce_supply

That is not so. It depends on whether input or output are meant.

# value = production (produce IC) >> positive is better
# value = supply (produce supply) >> positive is better
# value = consumer (consumer goods need) >> negative is better
# value = upgrade (upgrade cost) >> negative is better
# value = reinforcement (reinforcement cost) >> negative is better
# value = infrastructure (infra repair cost) >> negative is better

That is so. Please note that upgrades and reinforcements refer to units, thus both days and ic are effected. I have not seen any ministers that effects reinforcements, so i cannot confirm on that.

 

[Radomir.Canaris]

i think your team must could / should make better declaration in ideas.txt and minister_modifiers.txt:

Original from 1.10 patch (minister_modifiers.txt):
# modifies production types
# value = production/consumer/supply/upgrade/reinforcement/infrastructure
# <no value> = all production types
# production = IC
# consumer = consumer goods need (negative is better)
# upgrade = upgrade cost
# reinforcement = reinforcement cost
# infrastructure = infra rebuild cost
production_category_mod = additive

And in ideas.txt no explanation for effects.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
very confusing:
# infrastructure = infra rebuild cost
modifier = { type = production_category_mod value = infrastructure modifier_effect = 0.100 }
>> increases the days needed to repair buildings by 10%. That totals to 21% more days needed to repair infrastructure.
>> +10% for building infrastructure and +10% for repairing buildings total to +21% for repairing infrastructure.


we must differentiate between cost and total cost:
time x cost = total cost
more time x more cost = more total cost (multiple effekt)

you have a total time:
more time x more cost = more total time (multiple effekt)

infrastructure is buildings and cost is time

 

[Zsar1]

Fair enough. Documentation has arguably been a weakness at any point in the lifetime of this program, predecessors well included.
... Guess when I'll get the time, I'll implore about whether we can get a spot in Paradox' posh new Wiki project.

Of course, all the time spent documenting existing things has to be subtracted from the time spent on changing them. And then they eventually do change and so does the documentation, subtracting more time. Alas.

 

[Radomir.Canaris]

I undestand. But you have 2 problems.

A)
This is a big logic problem for me: time x cost = total time (or days x cost per day = total days)

Why do you change / modify the total time / total days, and not the total cost???
(days x cost per day = total cost)

From AoD Handbook:
.............................................................
We also integrated a new slider called "Repair provinces", here you can assign IC to repair destroyed buildings, Installations and Infrastructure. A small amount of all this always gets repaired for free (about 5%), but investing some spare IC into this area might speed it up around 50x times. I urge you to take care that you always spend some on repairing or you might just wake up one day with your country laying completely in ashes because no one cared to do some rebuilding.


It now costs more IC to rebuild constructions quickly. There is also an integrated a small rebuild-for-free modifier. So if your country is completely wiped out and you either don’t want or can’t invest anything in rebuilding, the full IC, Radar, AA, Port and Infrastructure Capacity will recover completely and for free over the time span of 10 years.
Repair Provinces

New for AoD is a new slider for repairing provinces. Here you can assign IC to repair destroyed buildings, Installations and Infrastructure. A small amount of all this gets always repaired for free (about 5%), but investing some spare IC into this area might speed it up around 50x times. I urge you to take care that you always spend some on repairing or you might just wake up one day with your country laying completely in ashes because no one cared to do some rebuilding.


B)
Also, if you say
"type =production_category_mod value = production" is the modifier for output (value) of IC
and
"type = province_project_mod value = IC" is the modifier for building time of IC in provinces

Wich is then the modifier for repairing (rebuilding) time of destoyed IC in provinces?
This?
"type = production_category_mod value = infrastructure"

If I understand this correctly:
"1. modifier = { type = production_category_mod value = infrastructure modifier_effect = 0.100 }
increases the days needed to repair buildings by 10%. That totals to 21% more days needed to repair infrastructure."

Becouse IC in a province is a building (=factory)

I mean:
"type =production_category_mod value = infrastructure
What is here the infrastructure? = All buildings, Installations and Infrastructure in all provinces?

Pleas help me to undestand your concept

 

[Radomir.Canaris]

Let us make all together very slowly AoD 2.0

 

[ifail]

im kinda lookign forward to this as well as playwith iron cross is there a beta or something?

 

[fabfeingold]

Hi Zsar,

How complicated would it be in your opinion to add a production_category_mod value for metal, electricity,oil and rares? I've always wondered why they didn't exist. That would dynamic resource modeling so much easier.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

we must differentiate between cost and total cost:
time x cost = total cost
more time x more cost = more total cost (multiple effekt)

That is why i prefer the term days, ic and icd. Cost can be interpreted as an equivalent of $ and thus icd, therefore using the term like you did might be confusing.

ic x days = icd

you have a total time:
more time x more cost = more total time (multiple effekt)

actually it is 110% days x 110% days = 121% days.

Why do you change / modify the total time / total days, and not the total cost?

Well, icd is changed at constant ic by changing days. Ic for buildings and trade transports and trade excorts does not vary.

Wich is then the modifier for repairing (rebuilding) time of destoyed IC in provinces?

The modifier for the infrastructure sliders refers to all building needing repairs.

Also note that those are relative to the time needed for constructing them in the first place. So to answer your question there are 2 modifiers doing that. And sliders of course also apply.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

How complicated would it be in your opinion to add a production_category_mod value for metal, electricity,oil and rares? I've always wondered why they didn't exist.

That is because they do exist:

personality = {
     personality_string = "resource industrialist"
     name = "NPERSONALITY_RESOURCE_INDUSTRIALIST"
     desc = "DPERSONALITY_RESOURCE_INDUSTRIALIST"
     minister_position = ArmamentMinister
     modifier = { type = resource_mod value = energy modifier_effect = 0.0500 }
     modifier = { type = resource_mod value = metal modifier_effect = 0.0500 }
     modifier = { type = resource_mod value = oil modifier_effect = 0.0500 }
     modifier = { type = resource_mod value = rare_materials modifier_effect = 0.0500 }
     modifier = { type = production_category_mod value = production modifier_effect = 0.0500 }
     modifier = { type = tech_group_mod value = industry modifier_effect = -0.1000 }
   }

 

[fabfeingold]

Pang. I am sorry you are absolutely right. I actually meant to write that I wished that could be implemented also for techs.

 

[Radomir.Canaris]

we wait for A07, let surprise us from Tsar

Pang, i think, it is good to implement all an the same modifiers for tech, ideas and ministers and events.

All for all.

 

[Radomir.Canaris]

im kinda lookign forward to this as well as playwith iron cross is there a beta or something?

alpha