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Do not prevent World Conquest

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Paddy234 said:
No forum represents the more average gamer but steam is as close as it gets as there is less effort. It's why so many threads descend into politicial and social rants. Half the people on there are only casual minded (myself included) and so aren't as passionate as the more hardcore fansbase who have put in thousands of hours
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Paddy234 said:
To be fair the fact that he mentioned it on there and not here among the "special fanbase" kind of proves my point. This forum doesn't represent at all the average EU gamer who just likes to build empires or attempt to.

How do you think his comment would have been recieved on here with such a passionate and niche outlook?
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after stacking so much Ls and taking a win from something the devs said that only confirm what we say you now cope by saying that we the 6 digit peoples who interact with the devs are our unique faction and do not represent the peoples somehow .
do you even know how sampling and estimating work ? you cant estimate an opposite result when the entire sample you have say otherwiseyou gave example of youtubers but those challenges are what youtubers do , speed runners too are popular online but they dont represent how peoples play .
sorry but this disgusting argument of yours is but yet another copium mechanic from you to keep going after being surrounded you now think that we are but a minority but i invite you to the discord or facebook or reddit pages and say that here and watch the ratio again
 
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szmik said:
I've never done WC in EU4 despite other people finishing it in under 100 years, so I completely miss the point of "let's prevent WC in EU5, because reasons".... I think it's personal playstyle thing more than anything... I know I'm capable of WC in eu4, but I don't like the idea or amount of work I'd have to put into it
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its funny how you simplify the removal of wc as an illogical and intentional act when in reality its just the natural result of depth added that expose how shallow older games were.
in older games you had nothing to worry about you could rule without problems and revolts were easy to beat.
now since the game have control , have population , have food , have factions , ethnicities , religions better represented and actually working estates , this gave the game a layer of depth that made your shallow RISK playing outdated .
but you ignore ALL OF THIS and cope with the " they just removed it like that because they got influenced by us the toxic niche players of the forum" as your other friend like to say .
 
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Paddy234 said:
EU has always been a map painting game primarily. It's never going to change.
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well... maybe, but...
Johan said:
Simulation, not Board Game.
Mechanics should feel like they fit together, so that you feel you play in a world, and not abstracted away to give the impression of being a board game.
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and about hardcore simulation:
Johan said:
What if you have ... stay with me... BOTH ?
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and about the opinion on simulation:
Pavía said:
Not at this moment, we've gone with a more simulation-based approach for this game, with fixed Raw Goods.
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Johan said:
One of the primary goals of Project Caesar has been the simulation aspect of things, and this is one of these things.
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So...Idk...
 
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Lord Lambert said:
You will try to.
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OP says he plans to play hundreds of years after the end date. Has anything in your play experience given you the impression that given the lack of an end date, a world conquest is a matter of if rather than when? Just curious because the only things I've heard about stopping wc; things like integration and truces are time gated.
 
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JacceDON said:
If WC is possible then everyone who isn't a casual noob will steamroll the AI at every point and turn in the game (which is a shame).
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That's not true. WC is clearly only possible IF you extend past the timeline which i do. If you like to stick to the timeline this game is based in then WC isn't possible. Therefore everyone is happy
 
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Average Horde Gameplay lol
Playmaker Timurids.png
 
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Monty is staring at me said:
Asking for WCs to be possible is like asking for jetpacks in a Call of Duty game.

You can implement that, but it will very obviously change what the game is.

We have EU4 for blobbing and map painting. What I think most of us want for EU5 is an immersive game recreating the world from 1300-1800.

World conquests are fantastical. To allow a game world in which world conquests are possible is to implement systems that completely contradict reality. In the real world, conquering and occupying other peoples was difficult and impossible in the long term.

Honestly, I not only want WCs to be impossible in EU5, I want to see boom and bust cycles for empires. Empire-forming should only be possible when a certain nation gains some advantage or exploits a certain situation; with time, that advantage should diminish, and the nation should not be able to hold onto that empire for long, and should eventually retreat into its core territories, just like any historical empire.
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All of this.

As long as paper tiger empires fall apart on ruler death or similar disturbances, I think blobbing is fine - but if it's not even challenging to keep half that new territory, then this game will have massive problems with keeping people interested in continuing to play.
The AI doesn't have to be your most difficult obstacle; your internal affairs should be it instead, for an empire. Whether this be separatists, unruly Estates, slave revolts, cultural upheaval or religious uprisings, I don't care as long as they pose meaningful challenges.
 
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Paddy234 said:
Very true. If you look at EU content creators, their efforts to create large Empires are some of the most popular streams and Paradox knows this.
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Three things:
This is the curse of EU4; first of all this set a precedent that you weren't really good at the game if you didn't achieve a WC at least once, and the achievements supported this high bar.
Secondly, EU4 is a simplistic system where land is money and money is power and armies, and trade flows in a fixed pattern so if you didn't have a capitol in an end node you were heavily incentivised to expand into one, and why not take all land while doing so?
Thirdly, a video about a WC is interesting, but I watched several streams of a (failed) WC and at some point there's nothing fun in the game because it is won and the rest of the game is just cleaning up the pieces you didn't take earlier. It's just awful to play and watch, and it takes so many, many hours.
 
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SirTickleBear said:
I'm fine with that as long as it collapses after Timur death, or shortly after. Can be a fun early expansion playthrough followed by the descendants of Timur trying to rebuild the Empire
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doubt it. If a player can do that, a player can keep it together. Seeing that map in that year is the biggest disappointment after the first round of 3D characters for me.
 
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Koopatin said:
doubt it. If a player can do that, a player can keep it together. Seeing that map in that year is the biggest disappointment after the first round of 3D characters for me.
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Timur is meant to go crazy with his conquests. He is essentially Temujin lite. I'm usually against hard scripting events/collapses, but letting Timur conquer a heap and then scripting a collapse is probably one of the only times I'd be in favor of that because it would be a fun playthrough that would change the landscape of the world each game depending on what regions he conquers during his lifetime, much like real life.

Keep in mind that part of what makes it easy for him to conquer this much is that hordes conquer land on siege, something non-hordes don't have access to. Not saying people aren't eventually going to world conquest with other tags, but they would have more challenge than being presented with this image.
 
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SirTickleBear said:
I'm fine with that as long as it collapses after Timur death, or shortly after. Can be a fun early expansion playthrough followed by the descendants of Timur trying to rebuild the Empire
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Timurids are more powerful later on (as Timur starts as Horde not Empire)

IMG_9435.png
 
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SirTickleBear said:
Timur is meant to go crazy with his conquests. He is essentially Temujin lite. I'm usually against hard scripting events/collapses, but letting Timur conquer a heap and then scripting a collapse is probably one of the only times I'd be in favor of that because it would be a fun playthrough that would change the landscape of the world each game depending on what regions he conquers during his lifetime, much like real life.

Keep in mind that part of what makes it easy for him to conquer this much is that hordes conquer land on siege, something non-hordes don't have access to. Not saying people aren't eventually going to world conquest with other tags, but they would have more challenge than being presented with this image.
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Yes, I do not completely disagree with that. But I just doubt it will happen. ck 3 style (and I cannot believe I would EVER look at CK3 for anything), collapse at death in that case would be neat. But... no...a player will keep it together. and will stay a horde until everything is under control, and WC in 1440 will come, and everything we were promised is down the drain already. :p

And if AI can do the same as in that picture (because you mentioned he is meant to go crazy). HF playing anywhere in that region.
 
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