Doomsday AI

[Invader_Canuck]

Yea, the AI doesnt seem to put enough emphasis on air power it seems. I guess the problem is, the AI just doesnt know how to use its airforce effectively. It fritters it away on useless attacks by constantly bombing. For smaller nations without a massive manpower reserve, this is a massive strain, in fact I doubt they can keep up with their losses at all. Combine this with the fact they tend to get them wiped out in the process and an AI that overspends on airpower is probably going to be easier to walk over than an AI that forgoes airpower and just mans up with added infantry.

I personally destroy alot of divisions with airpower. If you fight the enemy in 40 infra or less terrain, once you push them out of a province send your TAC or CAS in. By the time they finish retreating out of the province the chances are that division is completely combat ineffective for a good long while, and that is only if it still remains. The key to airpower however is using it at the right moment. If you just blindly set your tac bombers to interdict the british isles they are going to be a massive manpower strain on you. I like to commit CAS/TAC once the enemy is isolated from air cover and moving, either because i've flushed it out or just general movement.

 

[Paul_M]

I disbanded all of my starting divisions, and started moving towards standing army as soon as I was hawk/interventionist. I started long serials of 39 infantry in 38 (early research) by the time the Germans invaded in '41 I had just over 200 infantry divisions and over 30 fighter wings.

Why bother with this? It takes about 2 years to upgrade all infantry divisions to 36 standard depending on how much IC you throw at it. If you play with the slider settings signficantly then this will come down substantially. Unless things have changed its base 50% cost/25% time to upgrade which means you can upgrade a maximum of 8 divisions in the time and for the cost of building a single new one. Only the gearing bonus (which your move to standing army removes) makes the long serial builds "faster" but even with a 50% increase in upgrade costs...75%/37%...gives you around 4 divisions you upgrade for each you build droping down to 2 divisions you can upgrade for each you build versus a serial build at a gearing bonus of 40%.

(As a note I am NOT trying for exact 0.1 IC calculations here but simply doing estimates...as in 37% is much like 33% so you have 1.25x3 or 4 rather than 3.75)

And the other point is that the serial builds take time to see any gearlng bonus so although at full gearing bonus you are likely down to 2 or so divisions upgraded for each new one by the time you get to that point you will have upgraded something like 37 divisions instead of building 12 new ones.

You should have more modern infantry by a combination of serial builds and upgrades then you will have by serial builds after disbanding alone. Likely if you want to do the math you can detrine the optimal split between IC in refits and IC in new builds to get the maximum result.

And well, frankly, the soviets could not have done that without inviting every one of their neighbors to invade them.

EDIT: changed the numbers as I just found out it is 50%/25% upgrade cost not 25%/25%...changes the total number upgraded by a factor of 2.

 

[unmerged(17563)]

Hey Lothos the AI rocks.

Playing 3 GS as Germany Normal/Normal I had Raeder with 8 CVs and escorts in the Channel and the UK fleet comes out for me, not an overstack just 7 CVs for a 29 ships stack. We pound each other for a bit then after I sunk 3 CVs and a couple of other ships I head back to Kiel. But to my horror the 2nd UK CV fleet is waiting for me in the next province over. They pound me to dust I lose 3 CVs before I can retreat. Now that is a naval AI!

And the air AI, still not perfect but the UK started a massive strat bombing campaign against me and too me down almost 30 IC. In my stupidity I hadnt built an airforce cos usually the ai doesnt bomb me any. Now I am rushing ftrs off the assembly line b4 the UK does real damage.

AI in DD = awesome.

 

[unmerged(53922)]

AI has been greatly enhanced.

It's true but a few things have to be improved.

1. In DD 1.1 readme.txt in * AI Improvements * section is a line:
- Fixed problem with AI "forgetting" about some divisions after invasions

I have played DD scenario - hands off. 100 american units staying many months in Bremen and doing nothing ...

In my 36' GC ComChina game after how Japan created puppeted NatChina - Japan made a few strange stacks of 40 units on some beaches. In other 36' CHC after the war they made one strange 100 stack of units ... Something is still wrong with AI. Mayby hard coded limit of stacking units by AI is needed. For example max stack of AI units - 24.

2. Second. Mayby this is WAD but allied AI don't want to attack even with 5/1. Is this hardcoded passivity to human Allies ? I have played a few games as ComChi. Alone Japan AI always attacked NatChi with very good results. Only a few units leaving in Japan. But always when I allied them - they do not made any progress and always were pushed back by Nat to beaches ... 50 Japan divisions ahead 20 - 30 Nat .... In HO1 1.3 b the same. Puppeted and allied country always ( with a few exceptions ) don't want to attack even empty enemy provinces. 100 Indian divisions looking at a few Russians .... I've reloaded as my Japan DD and Indian Hoi2 1.3b . I saw that they can win almost every battle ....

Kristof
sorry for English

 

[Seten]

I'm too pleased with the ai exept usa ai

In fact as i see ai attack only when they can do at least from 2 area , the more area there is better it is.

Problem for usa or other invander from outer space , erm outer sea, are they just make a beach assault , load there then sit and sleep since they can attack only from one area (i play on agressivity set to normal ) so they stack

There's this island south of japan (hiroshima and i dont know the other) where they stack
Biggest problem is sicily
They stack too much there , and put most the troops in the area south instead of putting in north sicily
Also italy by this time got something like one sub , wich is never detect and go by the sea around italy , preventing usa army force in ita to enter mainland as they cannot cross... (the rare time they try)


Best thing to do for me is 3 thing :
-First , in an ai versus ai war they should go frenzy after invasion so they attack from one side only otherwise they will never move
-For ita , once usa manage to grab sicily they should make amphi invasion on the more beach they could
-There must be an ai event where once sicily is take and if ita got less then 10 or 5 naval they are all delete (its harsh , but from the game i play at this stage their navy is doomed )


Also with sov i have reach berlin , sit for waiting the usa dday but never see it
There's must be a trigger for usa , if berlin fall they should try to make an invasion asap (saving most of the world from communism ^^ )


For ww3 i was very please by english ai wich defend well asia as well as africa , but if in ww2 i manage to capture whole germany and dont create partition , only leaving france and the low country and ita to the allies they never help them when i attack , usa and eng should send exp force , as in history they know that soviet union will not occupied this country like germany , they would create puppet nation with all the communist from the resistance.

 

[Seten]

Yes , usa still forgot troops , mostly in north afrika once they conquered it (and it was hard for them with the ai ita really defending north afrika best then rommel , i have see them holding ground from usa and eng (mostly du to the passivity of usa , only english were doing all the job) in a 2 front war during 2years!!!


edit : also japan / nat chi war is really interesting to see , japan got hard time in the begining but they will always manage to grab all the costal province
Problem is that at this moment nat chi totally collapse because they still got a shitload of division but not enough ic to supply them , i have see them lack of supply during 2 years!
In fact its maybe the usa lend lease is bugged , i have see it triggered a lot of time but no pop up of natchi getting it (exept when first lend lease event for usa , when they choose to do it )

So i dont know , maybe an other ai event where is ic is really low nat chi disband some of his troop , enough to keep them supplied?

 

[ham79]

So far I haven't seen that greatly improved AI. Playing GC '36 as Germany, Normal/Normal.

Poland fell quickly, France too, Operation sealion succeeded with 4 transports. Soviet army was annhilated in the opening steps of Barbarossa'41 even with a way too small invasion army.

Currently it's January '42 and not counting USA it seems like a mopping up operation in Eurasia.

Of course, AI in general has played pretty well, Italy doing good work in Africa - about to annex South Africa soon.

There has been A LOT of improvements but still, as usual, there is much work to do.

I'm holding my final judgement for now though, as the game has been ahistorical so far ( Poland didn't join allies, SU dowed USA in '41 and so forth).

Weird though that SU is keeping large proportions of it's army still in Fareast even though I have annihilated the European army and conquered the last big industry provinces in the Urals.

I haven't used any gamey strategies as they take the flavor away and are almost impossible for the AI to counter. Only military controlling the puppets.

Not to derail the thread, but just making sure this doesn't seem like a one sided whining. I'm loving the other improvements in DD, Autosliders, allies sending expeditionary forces and so forth. The game is definetly worth the lowly price!

 

[tripp_trap]

Also , there should be new model of militia and garnison and hq
I don't think the first would stick with there ww2 weapon in 1942 if all the country build rifle and other stuff for there 1951 infantry and co
Where they will get the supplie? ^^
There's progress in communication at this stage etc etc
Worst is hq who don't benefit modern communication and co , introduction of copter , too bad they stick in 43, they seem so tiny between my main battle tank and co ^^

Uhm... What has that to do with AI? (maybe I misread)

 

[unmerged(44147)]

After reading all this I wonder where my first HoI DD game will go. I'm currently playing '36 scenario as GER in normal/normal. I haven't gone to war yet (since it's eary '38 in my game at this point adn I'm still building up my forces) But it seems to me the AI can give one a run for it's money every so often. I'm curious to find out how I'm gonna do in Poland and the lower countries. A bit of serious opposition would be nice I guess

 

[Seten]

Uhm... What has that to do with AI? (maybe I misread)

lol nothing , choose the wrong thread =/ i'm sorry , going to edit

 

[Kindjal]

Yeah I'm really in shock and awe about the AI.

Nothing like watching the Japanese sit on their asses after taking China and idly twiddling their thumbs. I thought they would dow the US itself after some point, but no they rather join Axis in Feb 42. So now instead of dowing the US themselves they are at war with everyone all at once. Not that I mind that, pro-active dissent management and all, but something is still nagging me.

Oh yes, I now remember: they continue to sit on their asses.

That surprise attack event was sure well used. I've seen 12 carriers sit in the Korean straight guarding convoys. Ya, must be real important that one.
Hm, what you say? Pacific campaign vs US? Nope, not here.
India? Maybe. They just started taking 1-2 provinces in Burma.

Oh wait, did I mention it is June 1942 now?

 

[Lothos]

If the AI has a huge stack it is because he is planning something. He didnt forget them. If you check the saved game and find the units in that province you can see the AI probably is planning an invasion.

 

[NikkTheTrick]

Yeah I'm really in shock and awe about the AI.

Nothing like watching the Japanese sit on their asses after taking China and idly twiddling their thumbs. I thought they would dow the US itself after some point, but no they rather join Axis in Feb 42. So now instead of dowing the US themselves they are at war with everyone all at once. Not that I mind that, pro-active dissent management and all, but something is still nagging me.

Oh yes, I now remember: they continue to sit on their asses.

That surprise attack event was sure well used. I've seen 12 carriers sit in the Korean straight guarding convoys. Ya, must be real important that one.
Hm, what you say? Pacific campaign vs US? Nope, not here.
India? Maybe. They just started taking 1-2 provinces in Burma.

Oh wait, did I mention it is June 1942 now?

Are you dissatisfied with Japanese AI now going after allies first, allying with Germany, keeping their fronts safe and not launching a suicidal war against you? I've noticed that AI does not do very-very stupid things anymore like Germany DoWing me as USSR when my troops were perfectly ready for action. However, I have once decided to check what happens if, as USSR, I disband all my army. Within a week of doing that, Japan DoWed me out of the blue. That was impressive

 

[Seten]

to lothos : he is planing something in sicily during 2years?
also i noticed he tried to attack once i reload.... he win , but then the italian crazy submarine came back and they stop... and they sleep again =/

 

[GAGA Extrem]

SO what do we do?
Autosave, load, play.
Reloading REALLY helps the ai!

Maybe its possible to write a script that empties the game 'memory' monthly?

 

[Spruce]

as Japan the US AI has stripped me from my navy o
I'm still fighting in Persia, but I consider to fall back as it's likely the USA will pick on me. I'm researching nukes to teach those yankees a lesson... I never bothered with the USSR fighting against Germany.

By the By Germany has been defeated and the last German divisions are being chased by the Communists. The US never invaded the Atlantikwall ...

but besides from that everything went along pretty historical...

ps = there's a minor bug where the Soviets put up a Stalinist puppet Romania but Germany gets the Romanian Dacau province - instead the Germans should occupy Dacau province - belonging to Stalinist Romania. So far the other Stalinist puppet events are working imho...

 

[Lothos]

to lothos : he is planing something in sicily during 2years?
also i noticed he tried to attack once i reload.... he win , but then the italian crazy submarine came back and they stop... and they sleep again =/

Thats because its a striaght crossing and as long as one enemy ship is their they cant cross. Makes perfect sense

 

[unmerged(53922)]

If the AI has a huge stack it is because he is planning something. He didnt forget them. If you check the saved game and find the units in that province you can see the AI probably is planning an invasion.

Any DD scenario hands off session:

1. super big US stack in Bremen 30-100 divs staying and doing nothing. They simply refuse to go into English territory. Even occupied by Russians with zero armies .... Lets do simple test and in save file change control country for these provinces from England to US. Probably they will tend to move in.
2. US stack in Frankfurt am Main surrounded by more then 100 Russians. I reloaded as US and their supply depot is changing every one day. From Paris to Frankfurt am Main, where there is no supply.
3. growing and growing US stack on Jeju Island at South Korea

They are in final invasion destination ... I saw many times such magic situation.

And production AI have to be tuned. In my last game in early Japanease - US war, american landed on some islands. But the US have only 50 convoys. And they died without supply. This situation don't bother AI and there was no any convoy in their production queue ...

 

[mbb]

Thats because its a striaght crossing and as long as one enemy ship is their they cant cross. Makes perfect sense

Yay, but a person would either give up on the idea after a while, or deal with those ships. A good demonstration of where a computer's limits lie in adaptability.

L, the AI is better than before, it seems to fight a bit harder but still is too easy for me.

In another thread I explained how Sealion was a cake walk, Barbarossa was too. However, on the second attempt

First time around, I went into the south too light and the north wasn't well enough defended. Second time around I did things properly and totally smashed the southern flank with 21 ARM divisions. That time I told them to truck on past Kiev rather than just before. From the its a left hook for Moscow and the Baltic coastline. The AI tried, it really did, but it was just too slow to react to the threat. The entire soviet front line was trapped and reduced by the end of '41.

OK heres a few pratical suggestions for the soviet AI:

1) It must never, ever leave Leningrad, Moscow, Kiev or Stalingrad undefended under any circumstances. It does from time to time and I am waiting for the AI to leave these cities undefended or lightly defended (especially Leningrad and Kiev). It probably should leave at least a garrsion of 3 divisions in these cities, probably more.

2) Teach the Soviet AI that it must defend its beaches, especially along the Baltic coast. If I get behind the front line and then make an amphibious landing to link up with the move, the AI is in deep, deep trouble.

3) Teach the Soviet AI that level 10 fortifications are doable with the right leaders and enough troops in waves! Easier said than done, no?

Having said all that, the Soviet AI is definitely performing better in the Far East againsts Japan. At one point I was worried that the Japanese might not get their end of the Bitter peace requirements!

 

[Invader_Canuck]

So far I haven't seen that greatly improved AI. Playing GC '36 as Germany, Normal/Normal.

Poland fell quickly, France too, Operation sealion succeeded with 4 transports. Soviet army was annhilated in the opening steps of Barbarossa'41 even with a way too small invasion army.

Currently it's January '42 and not counting USA it seems like a mopping up operation in Eurasia.

Of course, AI in general has played pretty well, Italy doing good work in Africa - about to annex South Africa soon.

There has been A LOT of improvements but still, as usual, there is much work to do.

I'm holding my final judgement for now though, as the game has been ahistorical so far ( Poland didn't join allies, SU dowed USA in '41 and so forth).

Weird though that SU is keeping large proportions of it's army still in Fareast even though I have annihilated the European army and conquered the last big industry provinces in the Urals.

I haven't used any gamey strategies as they take the flavor away and are almost impossible for the AI to counter. Only military controlling the puppets.

Not to derail the thread, but just making sure this doesn't seem like a one sided whining. I'm loving the other improvements in DD, Autosliders, allies sending expeditionary forces and so forth. The game is definetly worth the lowly price!

I just had the same experience. I played my first GC game as Germany and when I invaded in late may 41 the Soviets had roughly 100 divisions on my border. Considering i've given the AI a +40 bonus in the difficulty file for IC and manpower im curious why they had so few divisions in general. I'll have to load up as the soviets and see exactly what they are doing but this seems to be a trend in general. In all my hands off games the Soviets got absolutely steam rolled.