Dynamically Rising and Falling Great Families

[WhyWhimsy]

The Problem
Your Great Families are almost entirely set in stone practically from the start of the game, with the potential of 1 to 2 new Great Families emerging over the course of the game. While there isn't any direct problem with this, it is not as interesting as the prospect of different families and individuals making an impact on your nation, which could be an interesting narrative to form over the course of a playthrough.

The Goal
Create a system that can dynamically change what families are considered 'Great.'

The Suggestion
I suggest we utilize the system back from where there were more families in each nation, however we should keep the same number of Great Families that we have now, with only those Great families needed jobs to not feel scorned. This could be displayed in the character menu under the families tab with the Great Families keeping their color coded names. I suggest using the prestige of all the families to determine which ones are Great, with the 3-5 most prestigious being Great.

Next we would need to give the player more direct methods of manipulating family prestige so that it feels interactive. I feel a good way to do this would be to tie prestige and prominence together more closely. By default I think prestige should have some decay rate per month, say -1%. Then each month the prestige of a family should increase based on the sum of the prominence of its members. Families with prominent characters (Mostly people with Office positions, governors and generals) could then usurp the status of Great Family over time. I suggest this method where prestige changes slowly so that families are not constantly shuffling, causing you to frequently have to juggle offices to prevent people from being scorned. This system would allow for families who no longer have important figures to slowly fade into the background and new families to rise, which I feel would be a fun an interesting narrative to unfold in play.

Example
Note: These numbers should be tinkered with until a good level of balance is achieved.
Family A has 300 Prestige, and its members have a summed prominence of 350.
Family A would lose -3 (1% of 300) this month and gain +3.5 (1% of summed prominence) for a net of +0.5 prestige this month.

Family B has 400 prestige, and its members have a summed prominence of 250.
Family B would lose -4 (1% of 400) this month and gain +2.5 (1% of summed prominence) for a net of -1.5 prestige this month.

In this example if you wanted to keep Family B as a Great Family you'd need to secure more positions for them to get their prominence up, or take some positions away from the up starts in Family A. You would have a good amount of time before the line up changes to manipulate the system to your liking.

Addition Notes
- To add more flavor to this system events could occur that are based on characters wanting to secure more prestige for their families. A character may offer the ruler a bribe in exchange for giving their mildly inept son or nephew an office position. Your choices would be:
A: Give them the position, giving you some money and you'd be unable to fire them for some time period.
B: Refuse them the position, giving them a loyalty penalty for some time period.
- Other queued events could take place involving character's offering to fund public works in exchange for an instant bump in prestige.

 

[Amlet]

Like the idea to make the great families system more dynamic.
A problem is that the minor families have usually 2 members, it's hard to help them increasing the prestige to surpass the last great families (which usually has 4-5 male members and children).
The dev should reintroduce a system where the male with job marry and have children, at least 2-3 eligible characters for jobs.

 

[Todie]

The Problem
Your Great Families are almost entirely set in stone practically from the start of the game, with the potential of 1 to 2 new Great Families emerging over the course of the game. While there isn't any direct problem with this, it is not as interesting as the prospect of different families and individuals making an impact on your nation, which could be an interesting narrative to form over the course of a playthrough.

There are some more things going on behind the scenes than you seem to be considering.

I did some forum google-fu to find this:

You can manipulate this in a few ways:

A: In a Republic it will always offer you up to 3 party leaders, OR if all party leaders are already part of families the minor character with the most powerbase within a party.
The fourth and last option, the "self made man" is always the Minor Character with the highest power base in the country.

B: In a Republic if you have a Minor Character with over 80 Statesmanship OR both 90+ popularity and at least 40 power base, then that Minor Character has a chance to oust one of the existing families and create his own. This can happen at any time and is not restricted to when you rank up or down.

C: In Monarchies the options are always going to be the Minor Characters in the country with the highest power base.

D: In a Tribes the game will make families for Clan Chiefs.

Tribes are the type of country where you have the least control over this, in Republics and Monarchies if you really want a particular Minor Character to rise to create his own family then you can make it so by making sure that Character has a very high Power Base (best option is to use governorships for this most of the time, and perhaps make sure no other minor characters have as much power base when you rank up).

There may still be problems to discuss & address here, but we’ll get further with it if we consider the full picture.

 

[WhyWhimsy]

There are some more thinggs going on behibd the scenes than you seem to be considering.

I did some forum google-fu to find this:




There may still be problems to discuss & adress here, but we’ll get further with it id we coniddr the full picture.

I see what you're saying, but I still feel that my gripe remains sound. How often have you had a situation where you're Great Families were changed? For me it has only ever happened once, outside of civil wars and going up/down a rank. What my goal with the suggestion is, is to create a more transparent system for us players to manipulate and have an impact on, while trying to be somewhat intuitive and reasonable.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

A problem is that the minor families have usually 2 members, it's hard to help them increasing the prestige to surpass the last great families (which usually has 4-5 male members and children).

But minor families currently don't exist.
All minor characters are considered one big special nameless family.
@WhyWhimsy adressed an extremely important issue. The game needs dynamic families and natural charcter growth.

Here's an idea:
marrying or adopting a character from a minor family should transfer a bit of prestige from the more prestigious family to the less prestigious.
The amount may depend on the character's stats.

minor families should have multiple characters, and great families should be reduced in size a little bit (for balance)
But minor families should face the risk to die out if no new children are born.