E3 Map

[Fürstbischof]

Only thing lower TC-IC ratio makes is that it's easier to have overloaded TC when you're going for large offences (or you have tons of units moving and\or fighting at once), which have some effect in ESE as long as it's overloaded but here's the beef:

TC -> IC ratio with default 1.5 http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/64/tcic1.jpg

TC -> IC ratio with 1.25 http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7966/tcic2.jpg

Even with positive TC (and only having 'roughly' 60 less TC with lower TC IC ratio, ignoring the hit caused by dissent) the ESE is under 50% there and if I were to move it in swamp it would drop slightly and if it were swamp + heavy fighting fighting it would easily go under 20% once the infastructure is damaged, regardless of your TC. You would have eventually the same problem even with vanilla AoD + E3 on certain areas that your units are consuming more supplies than you can supply due to the aforementioned reason + ESE depends on your supply routes' infastructure, not just the province the unit is stationed in.

Sorry, Mjarr, I meant my proposal exactly the other way around: rise the TC-IC ratio, so that you get a higher TC. In your mod all nations have less divisions than usual. Combine this with the increased number of provinces of the E3 map. This leads to a higher pressure on the TC of the ai (and the player) because the number of ungarrisioned provinces is higher than in vanilla. Therefore you'll have to help the ai (and the player) to alleviate the higher pressure on his TC by slightly increasing the TC-IC ratio.

 

[bestmajor]

you can also improve those things by adding a new minister type like a transportation minister (wouldnt call him 'railroad tycoon'), as ai seems to be able to react on problems (at least with ministers).
for GER this could be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Dorpmüller

 

[Mjarr]

This leads to a higher pressure on the TC of the ai (and the player) because the number of ungarrisioned provinces is higher than in vanilla. Therefore you'll have to help the ai (and the player) to alleviate the higher pressure on his TC by slightly increasing the TC-IC ratio.

You're right about that and I was wondering about it myself. I'll be experimenting it with the following week and try another testgame to see how it works out.

you can also improve those things by adding a new minister type like a transportation minister (wouldnt call him 'railroad tycoon'), as ai seems to be able to react on problems (at least with ministers).
for GER this could be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Dorpmüller

I was thinking about something similiar some time ago but I have to admit: I'm just tad too lazy to find any remotedly corresponding minister for all major (and even some minor) countries

 

[Fürstbischof]

you can also improve those things by adding a new minister type like a transportation minister (wouldnt call him 'railroad tycoon'), as ai seems to be able to react on problems (at least with ministers).
for GER this could be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Dorpmüller

Good idea! That might indeed be a proper solution. It even seems to be preferable to add this minister trait in addition to a minor tweak of the TC-IC ratio. By the way, why do you dislike 'railroad tycoon'? Contrary to several other traits almost everyone would immediately know which function his trait has.

 

[Titan79]

By the way, why do you dislike 'railroad tycoon'? Contrary to several other traits almost everyone would immediately know which function his trait has.

It's good since it links immediately the name and his actual task, though I concur that it sounds a bit weird (maybe because there was a game named "railroad tycoon" ).

Hence, a better solution might be "(rail)road manager".

 

[Amallric]

The idea of a new kind of minister is not bad in itself, but it would make much more sense to adjust the misc.txt variables to get the same outcome in an E3 game as in vanilla before any other changes are applied rather than to force all countries to change their current minister.

 

[Calad]

Hi. I can say that old problem still exist: Englands AI abandons her homeisland. It is quite pointless to play when you can simply walk into London without any resistance.

 

[Amallric]

How do you expect the new map to fix this? It's still the same vanilla game.

 

[bestmajor]

It's good since it links immediately the name and his actual task, though I concur that it sounds a bit weird (maybe because there was a game named "railroad tycoon" ).

yes that was it, but i dont care much as long as it works.

The idea of a new kind of minister is not bad in itself, but it would make much more sense to adjust the misc.txt variables to get the same outcome in an E3 game as in vanilla before any other changes are applied rather than to force all countries to change their current minister.

yes sure, just thought post this here and wanted to hear some opinions.

@Fürstbischof:

i have the germany evts from July 11th, but maybe this could be useful for you; failed assassination of hitler:

deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 1999 }

action_a = {
name = "OK" #
command = { type = sleepminister which = 7 } # CoS Ludwig Beck
command = { type = sleepminister which = 34 } # HoS Ludwig Beck
command = { type = sleepminister which = 35 } # Hjalmar Schacht (HoS)
command = { type = sleepminister which = 48 } # Carl Friedrich Goerdeler
command = { type = sleepminister which = 68 } # Friedrich Werner von der Schulenburg
command = { type = sleepminister which = 69 } # Ulrich von Hassell
command = { type = sleepminister which = 77 } # Hjalmar Schacht
command = { type = sleepminister which = 6 } # Wilhelm Canaris
command = { type = sleepminister which = 92 } # Hjalmar Schacht
command = { type = sleepminister which = 99 } # Carl Friedrich Goerdeler
command = { type = sleepminister which = 101 } # Johannes Popitz
command = { type = sleepminister which = 102 } # Schenck v Stauffenberg
command = { type = sleepminister which = 125 } # Josef Wirmer
command = { type = sleepminister which = 126 } # Fritz-Dietlof v d Schulenburg
command = { type = sleepminister which = 127 } # Henning von Tresckow
command = { type = sleepminister which = 140 } # Hjalmar Schacht
command = { type = sleepminister which = 146 } # Hans Oster
command = { type = sleepminister which = 148 } # Wilhelm Canaris
command = { type = sleepminister which = 160 } # Erich Hoepner
command = { type = sleepminister which = 162 } # Erwin von Witzleben
command = { type = sleepminister which = 165 } # Erwin Rommel
command = { type = sleepminister which = 183 } # Erich Hoepner
command = { type = sleepminister which = 184 } # Erwin von Witzleben
command = { type = sleepminister which = 231 } # Günther von Kluge
command = { type = sleepminister which = 155 } # Franz Halder
# command = { type = sleepminister which = 246 } # Joseph Goebbels
command = { type = sleepminister which = 248 } # Hans von Dohnanyi
command = { type = sleepminister which = 254 } # Helmut von Moltke
command = { type = sleepminister which = 51 } # Ernst Thälmann
command = { type = sleepminister which = 147 } # Georg Hansen
command = { type = sleepminister which = 119 } # Arthur Nebe
command = { type = sleepminister which = 122 } # Karl Sack
command = { type = sleepminister which = 96 } # Paul Lejeune-Jung

command = { type = sleepleader which = 140 } # Erich Hoepner
command = { type = sleepleader which = 212 } # Friedrich Olbricht
command = { type = sleepleader which = 78 } # Friedrich Fromm
command = { type = sleepleader which = 354 } # v Witzleben
command = { type = sleepleader which = 230 } # Rommel
command = { type = sleepleader which = 311 } # v Kluge
command = { type = sleepleader which = 344 } # Carl v Stülpnagel
# command = { type = sleepleader which = 419 } # Vizeadmiral August Thiele / historically General Fritz Thiele
# command = { type = sleepleader which = 539 } # Brif Jürgen Wagner / historically General Eduard Wagner
command = { type = sleepleader which = 695 } # Erich Fellgiebel

command = { type = sleepleader which = 1100905 } # Fritz Lindemann
command = { type = sleepleader which = 292 } # Hans-Karl von Esebeck
command = { type = sleepleader which = 995 } # Gustav Heistermann v Ziehlberg
command = { type = sleepleader which = 818 } # Paul von Hase

command = { type = ministerofintelligence which = 138 } # Kaltenbrunner
command = { type = chiefofstaff which = 157 } # Guderian

command = { type = dissent value = 10 }
command = { type = domestic which = freedom value = -2 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 2025 }
}

at least the disabled ones could be useful for you guys as well. note the numbers refer to my current CSVs, so these things will maybe match only in parts (and are incomplete).

 

[Fürstbischof]

Hi. I can say that old problem still exist: Englands AI abandons her homeisland. It is quite pointless to play when you can simply walk into London without any resistance.

There's one golden rule when playing an Axis nation: never invade the British Isles because otherwise your game will get boring.

 

[Calad]

How do you expect the new map to fix this? It's still the same vanilla game.

Because of new map they have to remade ai-files so incase someone knows fix on that problem it could be included to this mod.

 

[Fürstbischof]

Because of new map they have to remade ai-files so incase someone knows fix on that problem it could be included to this mod.

You're aware that I've already adapted the vanilla ai files to the E3 map? While doing this I've slightly improved them. By the way, the next update will also include the v1.06A3 beta GER ai changes.

 

[Fürstbischof]

Hi. I can say that old problem still exist: Englands AI abandons her homeisland. It is quite pointless to play when you can simply walk into London without any resistance.

You can - in theory - increase the

province_priorities = {
# England Coast
5 = 40 # Scapa Flow
1166 = 40#
11 = 40 # Sunderland
10 = 40 # Edinburgh
1164 = 40#
17 = 40 # Norwich
20 = 40 # Dover
21 = 40 # Portsmouth
23 = 40 # Plymouth
1160 = 40#
22 = 40 # Bristol
15 = 40#
1409 = 40#
12 = 40 # Blackpool
2245 = 40#
9 = 40 # Glasgow
8 = 40#
}

and also the

area_multiplier = {
348 = 1.5 # Gibraltar
31 = 2.0 # Malta
907 = 1.5 # Alexandria
}

to get the uk ai to keep more forces at home. But otoh this means less uk divisions abroad which will make the game even more easier. It's atm too easy to invade the UK which imho is a major design flaw of this game, i.e. of all HOI games. But I hope that we'll get once an uk ai that will keep its fleets on alert near the British Isles if it seems that the german ai might try an invasion. And once the german ai is occupied elsewhere (Barbarossa) it might try some countermoves to harass the ITA ai...

 

[Fürstbischof]

@Fürstbischof:

i have the germany evts from July 11th, but maybe this could be useful for you; failed assassination of hitler:
(...)
at least the disabled ones could be useful for you guys as well. note the numbers refer to my current CSVs, so these things will maybe match only in parts (and are incomplete).

Thanks! Atm these fixed leaders ids (and also your improved OOB) are only included in my personal E3 version because I don't want to include them into the AOD/E3 mod without your permission. Correct me, if I'm wrong but I had the impression that your fixes for the events worked only if you've also installed your minister and leader .csv files - and ofc your leaderpics. For easier (and faster) fixing I would recommend to keep them separated from the E3 map and instead make it a minimod based on the E3 (or vanilla) files.

 

[Fürstbischof]

All AOD v1.05 files for the E3 map now in one complete package:

Thanks to a very helpful program made by Amallric we have redirected the IC & resources of re-used province ids to their successors, i.e. the E3 map should have now the same resource distribution as the vanilla map. I say it 'should' whether it does work correctly will only play-testing tell.

+ re-assessment of the 1936 scenario files is mostly done
+ the event files include the fixes of the latest v1.06A3 beta patch
+ the ai files include the fixes to the GER build orders of the latest v1.06A3 beta patch
+ the province.csv file should now include the corrected areas/regions, terrain and climate of all regions besides North America and the Mid East
+ the adj-defs.csv file got quite a bunch of additional straits & river crossings and also several more impassable areas
+ the locations of several ports have been moved
+ quite a lot of ports and beaches have been removed
+ the province_names.csv file includes now the correct spanish names of 1400+ provinces
+ the province_names.csv file also includes 300+ german names more than before (mainly in Eastern Europe)
+ some new areas added and several renamed
+ the most recent navaldist.tbl is included
- check for historical plausibility of the location of IC & resources has to be done
- areas/regions, terrain and climate of North America and the Mid East have to be done
- global fixing of infra has to be done
- BP surrender events have to be fixed

The updated E3 map AODv1.05 files can now be downloaded. You can find the download links if you follow my sig.

 

[Fürstbischof]

I made a few additions to the E3 project.

I also updated the E3 Province.csv to more closely match rare, metal, and oil production for Germany, US, UK, France, and USSR with vanilla AoD. I did this by simply increasing or decreasing resource values in province that already had the resources. It's not completely historically accurate but allows an E3 game to be played without the existing rares resource crash.

Many thanks, kilolima, for your hard work. But I could't simply use your province.csv file instead of the one which we have improved in the meantime. Your changes are based on the file which was part of my first map-fix (mid-September) which is very outdated. In the meantime I have inspired Amallric to create a small program which copies the resources of re-used province-ids to their successors. This involved changes to many provinces. Add to that all the changes made to terrain, areas or ports. If you use a program like winmerge to check the differences of the two province.csv files you'll see what I mean. We're talking about literally thousands of changes. I have to ignore therefore all your changes re IC & resources - for the moment. Once we'll have some feedback how the system of resource production and trade now functions we'll look again at your proposed changes.

 

[Fürstbischof]

Improving IC & resources

The check of the locations of IC & resources for historical plausibility is our next step which will take quite some time. But honestly we can't to do this alone. We need also YOUR help. Cross-checking wiki or contemporary maps for historically correct locations of IC & resource production is needed for the final polishing of the map. I'm therefore inviting you to participate - in close co-operation with us - in fixing smaller (or larger) nations of the AOD/E3 map.

Please post here in this forum your planned fixes so that we can coordinate the work with the map files (mainly the province.csv file).

 

[Fürstbischof]

Hi guys, I can take the Russian names.

If you're ready you can start right now. The updated province_names.csv is part of my earlier uploaded AOD/E3 package (see link below). Good luck!

 

[unmerged(52751)]

hmm, that's unfortunate. I thought I had used the province.csv from your latest release.

I would suggest a quick fix would be to just double the rares in excel. Of course, whenever I open province.csv in excel or openoffice AoD then refuses to read it, even though the comma-delimted format is retained.

I see the problem. You have two province.csv files across the various project downloads.

It would be better if all the files required for E3 on AoD were in one archive.

 

[Fürstbischof]

hmm, that's unfortunate. I thought I had used the province.csv from your latest release.

I would suggest a quick fix would be to just double the rares in excel.

That might be an option but I hope that most problems are now gone because we've restored the vanilla resource distribution. Now many nations should have enough resources right at home so that they don't have to trade for them. And you know the ai is prone to bad trade deals. Sadly, we haven't got much feedback from the players so we don't we know how it actually works.

Of course, whenever I open province.csv in excel or openoffice AoD then refuses to read it, even though the comma-delimted format is retained.

You do know that openoffice and some (?) excel versions are corrupting the province.csv file? I'd be glad if I could use those but to be sure that my work isn't wasted I make all changes by using an editor. But if you're checking the changes which we have made you'll see that there aren't any commas any longer: We've slightly increased the global resources when we removed all decimals from the province.csv file. The resources are now of the integer type which has the positive side effect, that we can avoid an irritating bug of openoffice which affected the on-screen readibility.

----------IC----MP----oil-metal-energy-rares
arma1.2--1855--1524--1031--3420--6969--1505
AOD1.5---1828--1524--1159--3399--6448--1492
E3 fix----1874--1724--2738--3332--7529--1490

100 IC were also hiding in the scenario files. These IC which have been added later to the province.csv. MP and oil haven't been changed by us.

I see the problem. You have two province.csv files across the various project downloads.

It would be better if all the files required for E3 on AoD were in one archive.

Now I'm worried. Have you checked, i.e. read, post 3 in the last months?

Files needed for playing (vanilla) AOD with the E3 map:

Installation sequence:

step 1: The E3 map v0.5 (including navaldist.tbl)

step 2: The complete package of AOD v1.05 files for the E3 map -- Released 21.11.2010!!

OR:

step 2.1: The (vanilla v1.05) AOD 1936 scenario files adapted to the E3 map -- Updated 14.10.2010!!
step 2.2: The (vanilla v1.05) AOD event files adapted to the E3 map -- Updated 14.10.2010!!
step 2.3: The (vanilla v1.05) AOD ai files adapted to the E3 map -- Released 11.10.2010!!
step 2.4: The most recent map fix (including navaldist.tbl) -- Updated 21.10.2010!!

step 3: AOD/E3: temporary resources fix

After several claims for a complete set of files in one archive I've put all adapted AOD files in one archive. I've colour-coded the release dates of all my archives for easy referencing. By looking closely at these dates it'd be obvious that I use the format DD.MM.YYYY for them even if you're using a different format. I had originally the intention to update the 4 smaller archives, too. I've shelved this to avoid such a situation which you're now describing. Can you tell me what part of that post is misleading so that I can improve it?