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Oh. Oh wow. So ships went through huge changes in those two centuries. We just wouldn't have frigates and ships of the line as Nelson would know them.

I wonder if there is any intention to have ship type availability vary over time, so that the frigate as Nelson would have known it only becomes available in the last 60 years of the game's timeframe, and the more efficient types of 2-decked SoL in the last 80 or 90 years.

The ships of wooden sailing fleets of 1650-1660 (Anglo-Dutch Wars) were a lot different in size, numbers of guns, weight of guns, general hull form, rigging style, decorations and construction from those of, say, 1780.
 
That's like a 100 year difference, of course the ships would be quite different. I know how they say everything changed faster than ever in the 20th century, but 100 years ago, cars that went 10 MPH were considered amazing, people never was able to go from New York to Paris in a matter of hours, and ships probly still used steam or diesel. Now we have 200MPH+ sports cars, 8 hour flight from NY to Paris, and Nuclear engines that seem to have endless power and endurance. The ships of the 17th century compared to the 18th century could be compared like a golf ball and a basketball, 18th century ships were faster, can travel further, had much more firepower and different types, as well as much stronger.
 
In addition to that, the successful frigate type carrying around 32 to 38 guns on a single gun deck simply wasn't fully refind until about 1740; that's the final 30% of the game's time window.

Likewise the 74 gun SoL only reached its final full design effectveness at around the same time, prior to that it was a mish-mash of earlier styles; 60s and 70s and 54s and such...

And in 1600 things were just past the Carrack stage of things.
 
In the single player campaign I guess you will technology evolve as time passes. In custom and multiplayer set up games the host should be able to set the era and thus set for that era available corresponding ships.

The Anglo-Dutch wars dominated the naval battles in the early period. I think, if i am right, the largest naval battles ever were in those days. The battle lines in those days were long, very long, clumsy and with a huge amount of ships. There was not much room for the tactical manouvres/novelties of the 18th century.

Ah if only more Dutch were aware of the raid on Chattam/Medway. It remains one of the most daring and succesful naval raids in history. :)

All in all, 1600 - 1800 covers a very interesting develoment in naval affairs. As Martin sais, from almost the carracks to the late 18th century ships. And that is just right.
 
i dunno the focus the developers are setting but your comments are making me dream of a game where you can actually command a fleet with simple commands and not like "all the rest of naval games" where micromanagement drives you crazy when more than 6-8 units are in the "field".
if there can be an option to command a single ship and order the rest to follow the line or melee with someone you point that would be a terrific advance in naval warefare simulation, i mean it would be the first game to have that properly done.
verhoeven, you got me curious about that Chattam/Medway raid, any web to find more info before i run to wikipedia. (be aware that my dutch is not good enough to read a 50 pages story of the action, sorry hoor... :p ).
 
Cpt.Jack Aubrey said:
. . .but 100 years ago, cars that went 10 MPH were considered amazing, people never was able to go from New York to Paris in a matter of hours, and ships probly still used steam or diesel. . .
Click to expand...

Most modern shipping still uses steam heated by burning diesel fuel. ;)

There was an article in the Wall Street Journal a while back about modern ships using a large wind sail to save on fuel. What goes around comes around.

Greg.
 
They should make a movie or a documentary for this great battle.

I saw there was even a guy from Belgium,
(Colonel and Lieutenant-Admiral Van Ghent)

I wish I could relive this battle with my own eyes, it must have been massive. :eek:
 
Yes those were the days :)

I believe the battle near Texel in the Anglo Dutch wars consisted over more than 400 ships... yes, more than 400 ships.

PS: mmmm I am exegerating a bit. At texel around 160 ships were involved :)
 
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Cpt.Olbaard said:
They should make a movie or a documentary for this great battle.

I saw there was even a guy from Belgium,
(Colonel and Lieutenant-Admiral Van Ghent)

I wish I could relive this battle with my own eyes, it must have been massive. :eek:
Click to expand...

be it on tv could be fun. and in live. unfortunately i've developed an alergy for fast flying iron balls :(:D
 
Yes, Arno, the Chatham raid. When the Dutch took Britains flagship "Royal Charles" and towed her away from under the noses of the gunners of the Medway forts...

Don't remind me. The shame of it... :D

The navies of the Anglo-Dutch wars were not fully professional though and a lot of the ships in both fleets were 'hangers-on', private vessels crewed by non-military officers and men who were kind of along for the offer of loot. I think the brunt of the action in those huge battles was borne by maybe only a quarter of each fleet. If you read the accounts many ships hung back and wandered around in the rear areas so it seems. ;)

Alvaro, one game that uses the 'squadron follows on it's leader' and 'following squadron guides on the one ahead' logic is Norm Krogers two early 20th century naval sims; Distant Guns: The Russo-Japanese War and it's sequel, Distant Guns: Jutland. Both are fantastic games with the finest physics and damage models ever seen in any naval sim. If you are into early coal fired steel battleships and cruisers I can't recommend them highly enough.

You can command vast fleets relatively easily with his intuitive command system.

Didn't even Age of Sail II have a 'folow the ship in front' system?
 
Digby_Chinless said:
Yes, Arno, the Chatham raid. When the Dutch took Britains flagship "Royal Charles" and towed her away from under the noses of the gunners of the Medway forts...

Don't remind me. The shame of it... :D

The navies of the Anglo-Dutch wars were not fully professional though and a lot of the ships in both fleets were 'hangers-on', private vessels crewed by non-military officers and men who were kind of along for the offer of loot. I think the brunt of the action in those huge battles was borne by maybe only a quarter of each fleet. If you read the accounts many ships hung back and wandered around in the rear areas so it seems. ;)

Alvaro, one game that uses the 'squadron follows on it's leader' and 'following squadron guides on the one ahead' logic is Norm Krogers two early 20th century naval sims; Distant Guns: The Russo-Japanese War and it's sequel, Distant Guns: Jutland. Both are fantastic games with the finest physics and damage models ever seen in any naval sim. If you are into early coal fired steel battleships and cruisers I can't recommend them highly enough.

You can command vast fleets relatively easily with his intuitive command system.

Didn't even Age of Sail II have a 'folow the ship in front' system?
Click to expand...

hey, thanks, man! i didn't know about those.

About age of sails, well, ... , yeah, it had sails, and ships, ... other than that, you could not board ships, squadron orders had nice useless interface and the ai, dunno how to say, i mean, trafalgar, about 30 ships for you, with no squadron orders, right? so, i could sink/surrender the whole british fleet with barely 8-10 frenchy-spanish ships. having that coupled with no scenario editor for multiplayer that makes a huge dissapoint. :eek:o:)
 
Yes. AoS2 had squadron commands though it did not really work. It also had boarding, but in a multiplay game, that would crash the game...

I doubt there will ever be a decent squadron commanded game. Games like Distant Guns come close, though those kind of game are simulators for sure.
A squadron controlled game with sailing ships will be especially hard. This is where the abstractcy thing comes in and the ships in your squadron will act following a code, like ai. A bit dumb, unless you micromanage them once in a while.

I just cant believe controling a large fleet(20 ships?) for games like this will ever work, well you would get an entirely different game. The larger the scale, the more abstract it becomes. Paradox games are famous for it. Some of those game i really love (Europa Universalis).
 
Getting back on topic the small actions you might find occurring in colonial waters with perhaps half-a-dozen ships a side like I *hope* we'll get in EIC seems the perfect sized battle to be able to manage each ship and still have fun.

Trafalgar with AoS2 was a nightmare. My mouse wrist was never the same again!

And of course in MP the best games we had were always those where each player commanded one ship. Given EICs 'from the deck' command perspective this looks like it could be a lot of fun.
 
Verhoeven said:
Yes those were the days :)

I believe the battle near Texel in the Anglo Dutch wars consisted over more than 400 ships... yes, more than 400 ships.

PS: mmmm I am exegerating a bit. At texel around 160 ships were involved :)
Click to expand...

It's true though, the fleets of the Anglo-Dutch wars were massive. I think at one stage the English Line of Battle consisted of over a hundred ships. Beats the Napoleonic era, when 30 ships was a large fleet, or indeed Jutland, which had a mere 20-odd battleships per side...
 
Digby_Chinless said:
Alvaro, one game that uses the 'squadron follows on it's leader' and 'following squadron guides on the one ahead' logic is Norm Krogers two early 20th century naval sims; Distant Guns: The Russo-Japanese War and it's sequel, Distant Guns: Jutland. Both are fantastic games with the finest physics and damage models ever seen in any naval sim. If you are into early coal fired steel battleships and cruisers I can't recommend them highly enough.
Click to expand...

So long as you can cope with the learning curve. Which I didn't. :)
 
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