I mean, once ming dynasty aka southern ming tag, is annexed, they shouldn't be able to revolt.
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u mean once nations are annexed they wont be able to revolt and declare independence? oh, that cant be what u mean bcoz it's not true.
what i was talking about was just that u need a revolt = no for southern Ming bcoz the Ming dynasty uses the CHI tag from the start of the game and Southern Ming wont possibly revolt out of Ming China during those times.
what i was talking about was just that u need a revolt = no for southern Ming bcoz the Ming dynasty uses the CHI tag from the start of the game and Southern Ming wont possibly revolt out of Ming China during those times.
Which would defeat the purpose of a revolter tag in this case. Zhou can be done, because its created via events from part of a country, ie not tag switching. Ming is all of (or rather what they remain in control of) China.
ha? but if u dont have the southern Ming tag how could the tag switching events be done? Ming (China) needs to have something to switch to when the other minors gets the CHI tag. thats why the southern ming tag is needed. if it's my inadequate explanation, then i guess it's my wrong, but i thought u would have already understood from the many discussions b4 that southern Ming is not a revolting power and is supposed to inherit the defeated (but not eliminated) Ming after it's displaced from the CHI tag. if u've already understood that to be the case, then i find it strange that u felt nothing wrong to have southern Ming declare independence against Ming thru ordinary revolts. thats why i was so puzzled. i didnt even understand what was the problem.
Ya the tag is needed, but not the revolter. This is like Timurid/Mughuls...mughuls don't need a revolter file, its merly a tag switch everything else is the same, except for what events. leaders and monarchs happen (unless specified in the events.
I've been think about this for a while.
The trigger for China (whichever China it is) loosing its mandate from heaven should happen it all of those countries are controlled, even by westerners (so long as a revolter/manchuria exists). I mean if they were easily captured by the western "barbarians" that'd be a pretty big blow to the emperor's claim to divinity.
BTW...You have a better name than Southern Ming (since they may be in the north)? I mean the same is okay, but i never liked names like that. Reminds me of "French Ultra Catholics" nation...who would call themselves that?
Fire/Shock: Yes i believe.
The trigger for China (whichever China it is) loosing its mandate from heaven should happen it all of those countries are controlled, even by westerners (so long as a revolter/manchuria exists). I mean if they were easily captured by the western "barbarians" that'd be a pretty big blow to the emperor's claim to divinity.
BTW...You have a better name than Southern Ming (since they may be in the north)? I mean the same is okay, but i never liked names like that. Reminds me of "French Ultra Catholics" nation...who would call themselves that?
Seige: no i believe.
Fire/Shock: Yes i believe.
Also do you have any idea for flags/shields for the 4 new nations (perf different enough to flags atleast at a glance who is who).
Also on some other stuff that needs to be worked on:
Cultures for China need to redifined (nothing new added...just renamed/moved around).
#The Closure of China# #1557#
portugal shouldn't get any provinces...as this was also used for all foriegn trade...to be worked with EEP portugal prob.
#The Strategic Decision after Zheng Ho's Journey#
This needs to be redone into multiple events that go over time.
#The Treaty of Nerchiinsk#
Will look at AGC Sun Zi's events to base off of.
Jesuits need to be redone.
prob more, but can't think of them offhand.
Cultures for China need to redifined (nothing new added...just renamed/moved around).
#The Closure of China# #1557#
portugal shouldn't get any provinces...as this was also used for all foriegn trade...to be worked with EEP portugal prob.
#The Strategic Decision after Zheng Ho's Journey#
This needs to be redone into multiple events that go over time.
#The Treaty of Nerchiinsk#
Will look at AGC Sun Zi's events to base off of.
Jesuits need to be redone.
prob more, but can't think of them offhand.
Code:
[color=green]#The Move to Beijing#
event = {
id = 10000
trigger = {
owned = {
province = 649
data = -1
}
}
random = no
country = CHI
name = "EVENTNAME10000"
desc = "EVENTHIST10000"
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1420 }
offset = 300
deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1421 }
action_a ={ #
name = "Move to the New Northern Capital!"
command = { type = capital which = 649 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 649 value = 1 }
command = { type = fortress which = 649 value = 1 }
command = { type = treasury value = -300 }
}
}
[/color]
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(I repeat) i dont think the CHI tag should be attached to the emperor's claim to divinity. It should be more objective than that: which paternal blood line had the most "proper/correct" mandate (zheng tong or zheng shuo is the Chinese concept i am talking about. "zheng" means proper/correct, the Chinese do not distinguish the two) to rule. therefore IMO, if barbarians occupy China, that does not necessarily mean that the particular paternal bloodline is no longer the most "proper/correct" authority to rule China. as long as it is still the most "proper/correct" authority, it should not lose the tag.
this is what it is called historically. but i guess it can be called "Ming" instead of southern Ming.
my idea would be to just use the Chinese characters of their names as the flaf/shield for the Chinese minors. Manchuria's shield should be changed either to the Chinese character of their state's name (which seems a bit unfair to the Manchu written script but does have historical basis) or to the Manchu script of their state's name (which someone has to find out) or to one of Manchu's eight military banners along which its army was divided (patterns in the banners were too fine).
i prefer to deal with each change one by one. so it would be a good idea to finish the fall of Ming first. anyhow those changes u listed are not the most important to me, as they dont affect the problem of game balance in the region which is fundamental. eventually i will probably bring all the proposals (as well as stuff already changed) in the AGC to the EEP.
i think there is no better way to do it. if you rely on subject/personal claims that would be worse. I have already set out how to determine who had the proper mandate, even when CHI extinguished and the area is split for a long time. The lose tag events are not the important determinant of this issue, the trigger merely incorporates all possibilities and they happen before the gain tag event for scripting convenience. The gain side event are actually the determining events whose conditions reflects the conditions when there should be a change in the proper mandate. the focus should be on the achievement of certain conditions for certain particular nations that there should be a change in proper mandate, not on the deterioration of the CHI tag holder to certain conditions that warrant a change in proper mandate. if that is the focus, i cant see how there could be a problem of not having China for prolonged period.
btw, there are lots of situations in Chinese history where states contending for control of China have allied with foreign powers to attack their internal enemy.
See I disagree. The loss is just as important as the gain. If the nation with the China tag looses control of all of its provinces to two of its rivals, it should loose the support of the populace, just as much as if 1 nation had taken over all of those provinces.
Technically such a trigger can be done, but the conditions alone as has been mentioned several times here, would make 1 of these events humonogous (probably larger than most event files are now), yet i can see no other way as we are at a fundimental disagreement here and this seems to be atleast something we seem to think would likely happen.
not really. there are historical interpretations in classical chinese history books of which state has the proper dynastic line. one of the important principles which i draw from those historical interpretations is to favour the old authority until a clear winner has emerged that has control of all China. as for support of the populace, I fail to see in those historical interpretations a compelling link between support of the populace and who is the correct dynastic line to rule China. sure support of the populace is important in many occasions in causing a change of dynasty, but that is definitely not determinative of the precise time which a change of dynasty was recognised to occur.
But there will be no lapse between 1 new china and another, which i'm sure is also in those books. 1 nation controlling all of them is simply too much to ask for. I mean if they controlled all but one, but could nevr controll the final 1 because of whatever reason can you really say that history would claim that last unowned province meant that much?
historically theres no such recognised nation as China. theres only regimes and historians, in their attempts to categorise things and make things look good for the present regime, often interpret retrospectively which regimes had the proper mandate at the time as the rightful successor of the previous regimes and which regimes are just periphery antagonists. so it is true to say that there is little if any lapse between succession of the proper mandate, which we use to associate with the CHI tag.
i've already said why it's not too much to ask for control of all the provinces.
of course i cannot say that every bit of my model can be accurately reflected by historical interpretations. but i can say that theres no better model as far as I can see that more accurately reflects historical interpretations. if u can suggest any model based on sound historical interpretations, please say it. if not, i think we r just running in circles and not getting anything done.
i've already said why it's not too much to ask for control of all the provinces.
of course i cannot say that every bit of my model can be accurately reflected by historical interpretations. but i can say that theres no better model as far as I can see that more accurately reflects historical interpretations. if u can suggest any model based on sound historical interpretations, please say it. if not, i think we r just running in circles and not getting anything done.
Yes what you say is much like Japan pre-Mejii period. However this is also a view from a western slant (as per the name Europa Universalis).
Personally i think atleast the controll of the core provinces should be manditory to be recognized as 'China', otherwise there will be very little time between one being claimed historical and another which also insn't historical. Plus i also don't see the logic then if the opposing faction continuously controls 11/12 provinces, but can't control the last one, and the other nation is recongnized as china why the newcomer doesn't get the credit. They would certain be more powerful, more recognized in history, by the people and likely by other governments, yet that 1 lone provinces the games 'China' has keeps them from claiming the title they deserve.
So i guess we're at a fundimental differance at this point.
However, there is still something related to the revolts i need to know, the leaders stats.