EGUFSM 1.2

[Birger]

Would this do |AXiN|?

 

[|AXiN|]

I have Photoshop, but in a Hive-esque manner, I need all the help I can get

I was actually about to do exactly what you just posted as soon as I got home - guess great minds think alike.

 

[Hive]

Would this do |AXiN|?

Most excellent! I refrained from using these coloured icons due to the presence of the burning book, which I did not like...

 

[Birger]

Yeah, I guess that book didn't really fit in there... that's what you get when you just knick something from another game.

 

[unmerged(11496)]

Yeah, I guess that book didn't really fit in there... that's what you get when you just knick something from another game.

What game had a burning book to symbolize paganism? Is it a game worth picking up?

 

[Birger]

That was Medieval Total War, pretty good but no EUII or CK

 

[unmerged(11496)]

That was Medieval Total War, pretty good but no EUII or CK

I understand.

 

[Birger]

Looki looki what I found...

A blue nisan (personal seal) of Sahib I Giray, 1549-1550

Around the tamga (the emblem of the Giray dynasty) an inscription carved: "In the name of God, the merciful, the gracious. I bear witness that there none worthy of worship except God. I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of God. Say: "Oh, God! You own the kingdom and grant the power to whom You will. The great lord Sahib Giray khan, a son of Meсli I Giray, a son of Hacэ Giray"

Source: http://www.hansaray.iatp.org.ua/e_ist_bgcs.html

EDIT:

A silver coin of Hacэ Giray minted in Qэrq Yer in 1454. The symbol of tamga (adopted by Hacэ Giray as a new state emblem) is placed in the center.

So perhaps a blue tamga on a white background wouldn't be that wrong for the Crimean Khanate.

 

[Birger]

 

[Herr Doctor]

Looki looki what I found...

A blue nisan (personal seal) of Sahib I Giray, 1549-1550

Around the tamga (the emblem of the Giray dynasty) an inscription carved: "In the name of God, the merciful, the gracious. I bear witness that there none worthy of worship except God. I bear witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of God. Say: "Oh, God! You own the kingdom and grant the power to whom You will. The great lord Sahib Giray khan, a son of Meсli I Giray, a son of Hacэ Giray"

Source: http://www.hansaray.iatp.org.ua/e_ist_bgcs.html

EDIT:

A silver coin of Hacэ Giray minted in Qэrq Yer in 1454. The symbol of tamga (adopted by Hacэ Giray as a new state emblem) is placed in the center.

So perhaps a blue tamga on a white background wouldn't be that wrong for the Crimean Khanate.

you see it's just a coin and a seal, so it's hard to say which colors the Crimeans' symbols were

 

[unmerged(40707)]

Wonderful as always. Thanks a lot

 

[unmerged(11496)]

you see it's just a coin and a seal, so it's hard to say which colors the Crimeans' symbols were

The seal is specified as blue...

 

[Birger]

you see it's just a coin and a seal, so it's hard to say which colors the Crimeans' symbols were

Eh, it says "blue nisan personal seal of Sahib I Giray. Sure I'm not 100% sure about the colors but that's not really a problem...

 

[Herr Doctor]

Well, you see it’s just “personal seal”. And what if they would just use black or red ink for the seal?.. Anyway it looks very good.



Also, always wanted to ask you about Lithuanian flag you used for EGUFSM… You see the Kalumny were used as the banner only at the very early XV century (Vytautas the Great’s times) and very rarely, while the Pagonia (Vytis) banner was used primary at the all EU II-time period (XV-XVIII centuries).

I understand that you used alternative one in order not to confuse with Muscovian flag. But then again why not to use St Jury’s (St George’s) banner?

It was used together with the Pahonia banner as the military flag during XV-XVIII centuries.

Here you can see the flags, which were used by the Lithuanians during the battle of Grünwald (1410)

Here the part of 1520s painting of the battle of Orša 1514 (just lazy to scan it all myself so will use from other webs )

Also this (not very good quality):
http://www.jest.art.pl/50orsza.jpg

Here the link to the entire reproduction:
http://artyzm.com/n/nieznani/orsza/images/orsza.jpg

on all of them you can see such banners used by the Lithuanian cavalry

Finally it looks the way cooler

 

[Birger]

Well, you see it’s just “personal seal”. And what if they would just use black or red ink for the seal?.. Anyway it looks very good.

It also says that it was adopted as the new state emblem of Crimean Khanate. And the last time I checked blue was blue and not black...

Also, always wanted to ask you about Lithuanian flag you used for EGUFSM… You see the Kalumny were used as the banner only at the very early XV century (Vytautas the Great’s times) and very rarely, while the Pagonia (Vytis) banner was used primary at the all EU II-time period (XV-XVIII centuries).

I understand that you used alternative one in order not to confuse with Muscovian flag. But then again why not to use St Jury’s (St George’s) banner?

It was used together with the Pahonia banner as the military flag during XV-XVIII centuries.

on all of them you can see such banners used by the Lithuanian cavalry

Finally it looks the way cooler

I based it mostly on this:

The earliest known mention of Lithuanian flags is in the "Chronicon Dubicense"; it cites an "insignia Lithwanorium" in the text but does not go on to describe it. Logic would state that it must have been one of the "towers of Gediminas". Ample documentation exists regarding the Lithuanian flags which participated in the Tannenberg battle of 1410 against the Teutonic Knights. Lithuanian units from the Aukstaitija province flew the red and yellow towers of Gediminas.

Aside from the towers of Gediminas (also called gates of Gediminas), which now are identified with all things Lithuania, there are two other "national" symbols which have adorned Lithuanian flags since the early Middle Ages - the Apostolic cross and the Vytis.
The Apostolic cross was introduced by King Jogiella (1377 - 1398) who made the cross an integral part of the Gediminian royal houses coat-of-arms. The choice of this particular symbol was a masterpiece of diplomacy by King Jogiella. The King knew that a "pagan" Lithuania would be no match against her many enemies. By marrying into the Polish royal family, he also adopted Christianity for Lithuania. This would then prevent any future "crusades" from being undertaken against Lithuania. As the Lithuanian kingdom was located in both "eastern" and "western" Europe and as the Apostolic cross was accepted as a "Christian" cross by both Constantinople and Rome, King Jogiella could not have selected a better symbol for the Lithuanian royal household. The Apostolic cross thus quickly made it on to Lithuanian flags and banners. Any battles the Lithuanian's would from then on conduct in the defense of their realm would be against the people of the enemy nation - not against the Christian beliefs of their enemies.
From the available records of the Tannenberg battle of 1410, four Lithuanian flags are described as carrying the Apostolic cross.

Reading that text again it seems that the apostlic cross would the best option for a flag...

 

[Herr Doctor]

I based it mostly on this:

The earliest known mention of Lithuanian flags is in the "Chronicon Dubicense"; it cites an "insignia Lithwanorium" in the text but does not go on to describe it. Logic would state that it must have been one of the "towers of Gediminas". Ample documentation exists regarding the Lithuanian flags which participated in the Tannenberg battle of 1410 against the Teutonic Knights. Lithuanian units from the Aukstaitija province flew the red and yellow towers of Gediminas.

Well, apostolic cross is the other thing. The one you used is just this. The Columns (Kalumny, The Towers of Gedymin in your text) – the ancient pagan symbol:

Or even at the Pahonia’s arms:

It’s the legend connected with this just if the first Liths which marked their homeland’s borders with such columns.

Aside from the towers of Gediminas (also called gates of Gediminas), which now are identified with all things Lithuania, there are two other "national" symbols which have adorned Lithuanian flags since the early Middle Ages - the Apostolic cross and the Vytis.
The Apostolic cross was introduced by King Jogiella (1377 - 1398) who made the cross an integral part of the Gediminian royal houses coat-of-arms. The choice of this particular symbol was a masterpiece of diplomacy by King Jogiella. The King knew that a "pagan" Lithuania would be no match against her many enemies. By marrying into the Polish royal family, he also adopted Christianity for Lithuania. This would then prevent any future "crusades" from being undertaken against Lithuania. As the Lithuanian kingdom was located in both "eastern" and "western" Europe and as the Apostolic cross was accepted as a "Christian" cross by both Constantinople and Rome, King Jogiella could not have selected a better symbol for the Lithuanian royal household. The Apostolic cross thus quickly made it on to Lithuanian flags and banners. Any battles the Lithuanian's would from then on conduct in the defense of their realm would be against the people of the enemy nation - not against the Christian beliefs of their enemies.
From the available records of the Tannenberg battle of 1410, four Lithuanian flags are described as carrying the Apostolic cross.

Reading that text again it seems that the apostlic cross would the best option for a flag...

Here the “apostolic cross” (you can also see its variation as a flag as the first one of the Grünwald’s I posted):

It’s also pagan symbol (some kind of paradox you see ) coz from the very begging it was God Jaryla’s symbol (with equal crossbars) – the reason why it apperad at Pahonia (Vytis) arms in pagan Lithuania so early. Later it transformed to the traditional Christian symbol. There also the variations of the so-called Jagellon cross... So this your info is not very right.


Anyway, these symbols were used as the flags very rarely as I said (mainly just as the seals and coat-of-arms) and only in XIV-XV century, so they have not much connection to the EU-time.

 

[Herr Doctor]

btw, in my EU games I’m using this one, which I requested long time ago here. Even do not remember who made it, you or Kaigon (it’s on his web at last)

Also, another thing I do not like in EGUFSM is Transylvania. Why did you remove seven castles image (“burgs”) from the half of it? This country is named at last Siebenbürgen

 

[unmerged(5110)]

Great work, BJ. Would you be too against including a blue rim around the edge of the logo?

 

[Birger]

btw, in my EU games I’m using this one, which I requested long time ago here. Even do not remember who made it, you or Kaigon (it’s on his web at last)

Also, another thing I do not like in EGUFSM is Transylvania. Why did you remove seven castles image (“burgs”) from the half of it? This country is named at last Siebenbürgen

That's Kaigon's work.

As I've said many times before, both GUFSM and EGUFSM's main purpose is to have shields/flags that is more historical accurate at the beginning of the GC.
With the flag change event you can easily change shields/flags through time...

That's how the Transylvanian/Siebenbürgen arms looked like in the 15th century, the one you're talking about dates back to 17th century...

Here's a link to that set:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3761799&highlight=siebenb%FCrgen#post3761799

 

[Birger]

Great work, BJ. Would you be too against including a blue rim around the edge of the logo?

I thought about that, can't decide what to use, a round of a square rim...


Btw, I found out that the Cuman state became Catholic in the 13th century. Should they use a latin/orthodox shield or should I keep the current one (mongol/asian hanging flag)?