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To all testers...

I have included a readme on how POP conversion works, and tweaked the POP modifying value up abit (you now get more pops in every territory).

PS. Please let me know if the readme is understandable... It is rather much and pretty complex. :)
 
IMHO, alliances and wars should be converted... the way I see it, there's not a difference of 16 years between the end of the EUII game and the beginning of the new Vicky scenario - it's more like the calendar has been revised (perhaps the birth of Jesus was at another date after all ;) ). Otherwise it wouldn't make much sense to convert things like armies, navies or even population either, since especially the first two change in these years, too...

(Is satellite really that much more impossible to break? Yeah, you have to declare war on your overlord, but you can improve relations before that (in EUII, I think the impossibility to have RMs hinders that quite a lot) and quickly bring your buddies into the war (hopefully). And breaking a vasselage gave a CB in EUII too, right?).
 
I'm getting CTD's all the time. I get to play a few minutes or so, and then CTD. Is this normal at this stage or have I done something wrong? I really liked this converter btw ;D
 
Nimic said:
I'm getting CTD's all the time. I get to play a few minutes or so, and then CTD. Is this normal at this stage or have I done something wrong? I really liked this converter btw ;D
Click to expand...

Could you send MontyP or someone else the EU2 save file? That would be very helpful to sort out the problem.
 
Erm i used the pop converter and i i got some wierd results. Instead of 55nations there were 13 all uncivilised. Random places in the world seemed uncolonized. When loading i got the error saying the france or someone else owned a province that china or someone else wanted and i had to ignore them. So half the world was messed up and pop lvls are to low. In the other game i had 60million poeple in this i had 1mil it might be a little higher if i have all the land i should but i doubt it will get anywhere near that.

Edit - I converted it again and it worked fine iplayed from 1419 to 1819 the pop lvls didnt seem to bad. I as hungry had 120mil poeple but i have 150provinces and colonized heavily. China had 143million but they had lost proivnces to dia viet and tibet when the revolts hit them. France who was the 3 biggist nation had 90million which isnt to bad since they own all of france a good bit of germany and spain and plenty of colonys themself.
 
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converting this 1819 MP save game I get the following unknown strings wanted in Victoria:

unknownstringhol.jpg


unknownstringport.jpg


Something went wrong, but I don't know what :confused:

The POP conversion looks pretty good, total POP sizes looks ok. There is one major problem:

readme_pop said:
For example: If England has colonized Winisk which has a Cree basic population, British will become the dominant population and Cree will become a minority. Whichever religion England had will be the dominant religion, and pagan will be the minority religion.
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This will make it possible to convert all colonies into states, thus heavy industrializing. If the province is not on the same continent as the capital state cultured POPs in that province should be in a minority.

readme_pop said:
Clerks and craftsmen are added if territory has a manufactory. And the you get 4% clerks and 12% craftsmen from the major population of the territory, and 4% clerks from the minority population.
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Better to have the minority be craftsmen instead of clerks :confused:
 
I had converted the very same file and got also erros but couldn't locate them.

Dunno what could be...

I haven't thought about staehood, but I think you're right about that.... it could be an exploit for early industrialization and thus making pointless immigration...
 
Ironfoundersson said:
converting this 1819 MP save game I get the following unknown strings wanted in Victoria:


Something went wrong, but I don't know what :confused:
Click to expand...

The problem depended on a fault in the provinces.txt file...

Some EU2 provs were converted to Vic sea zones.

Here are the correct ones (replace the others):

718 "Wewar" 2580 (it was 2380 = sea)
814 "Tahiti" 2373 (it was 2372 = sea)
731 "Hobart" 2832 (it was 2823 = sea)
719 "Rebaul" 2582 (it was 2583 = sea

That should do it. :)
 
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Here's a suggestion on Pop conversion, you lose a bit of the EU2 accuracy, but it might help. I think maybe you should only calculate new populations for territories that were uncolonized at the start of the scenario (you might have to have the player say which scenario year they started with).

Provinces that started EU2 with cities (Europe, China etc) would keep the same number of Pops that Vicky starts with, and the converter would only change their nationality.
 
Ironfoundersson said:
This will make it possible to convert all colonies into states, thus heavy industrializing. If the province is not on the same continent as the capital state cultured POPs in that province should be in a minority.
Click to expand...

Yes I know, but it’s almost impossible to do it any other way. The way I see it it’s a fair prize to pay. If one wants the “exact” historical population or “exact” historical setup, one would play Vic GC.

To make the converter smart enough to see which province is eligible to become a state province and which province is a colony would require much more work than even I am prepared to put in :) … it will be a monster task! And it would involve programming with to many exceptions (as I see it). The converter in its present state is very general, as I think it should be.

The thing with any finished EU2 game is that it will be unhistorical one way or another. The population will most certainly be unhistorical anyways… Two questions I asked myself when making the POP converter were: If a territory has changed culture/religion, do I want it to have the changed culture/religion in the converted file? And, do I want a converted game to mirror the size of my population from my EU2 territories to my converted game? My answer was yes to both questions. And I think many of you will agree… If I play CK and convert a lot of provinces to my country culture, I want them to stay that culture all the way from CK to Victoria (if I have controlled them all the time…). And if I have managed to keep several of my territories in a EU2 game away from raiding armies that would savage the land and kill of my population, it should be rewarded somehow. This way it will be so.

Another way to solve this is to treat every culture/religion in a “changed” territory as a minority! But then it will have implications if you for example have changed the culture/religion in Constantinople, while playing OE, to turkish/sunni, it would still be greek/orthodox as a majority! Another way to do it is to increase to basic population extremely much in every territory to a certain amount (present: 2000). That way we can “force” a low city population (colony) culture to become a minority…


Ironfoundersson said:
Better to have the minority be craftsmen instead of clerks :confused:
Click to expand...

We can do that! ;)
 
Would it really be that hard - colonies versus states?

Any territory in Africa not belonging to: South Africa, Oranje, Transvaal, Liberia, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco or that big yellow blob (have forgotten the name) will be colonies. If it is wrong, the player and AI can always grant statehood to the Ottoman Colonies in east africa created during the EU2 game (for example).

Same thing for America and South-east Asia and Siberia. Any territory not belonging to a nation native in that area is a colony - thwe player and the AI can then grant statehood if they can (direct connection with capital or a substantial amount of a national culture) and want to.
 
My first results.
Yesterday testing the new convertor i found this:
I coverted a game with the Pop option and without it too, i found that with pop option, all the colonized, or owed part of the world the population total is 1.220.828.000, without the pop option is 1.026.494.000, meaning that the difference between a 1836 VIc game and a EU2 finished game is 15.919 %, considering that that there is a difference of 16 years, and that the wars and conflitcs are not the same, i consider the POP convertor ok, but to be completely sure, i ill test other games (10).

To get more exact numbers, all the tester should agree a way to get the results, my way is comparing the global population of 2 games, but another way can be used, thats why i want to talk with all the tester.

About POP readme, its a little hard to understand, maybe it can be changed a little to make it more user friendly.

About loans, well they get a it high, as i said, they can become an exploit, but maybe should be lowered a little.

Sorry if you don't understand my english, just tell me and i will explain.
 
A strange thing i found, when i play as Mughal Empire in EU2 my cultures are "hindu, mongol, afghani", most of my provinces are hindu, and afghani, i also have a few arabic and mongol provinces, and one bengali province IIRC, when i convert the game, I become Mughalistan, and my cultures are "marathi, mongol, afghani" but 40% or 50% of my population is "Awadhi", my guess is that my hindu provinces became awadhi, but why do i get marathi as a national culture then?
 
Hmmm. Since in my game, China still has a population less than 10m, I guess we're going to have difficulties getting the populations right. Germax, what EU2 scenario are you using?

I also found the following error on conversion: '"Factory set in other country" blah blah Persia 1428.' It would appear an OE manufactory is causing a factory to be built in Persia. Ignore twice, and the game plays OK. But might be worth looking at.


EDIT: And... too many countries are civilised. :( Now that we all seem to have agreed upon making latin tech countries civilised regardless of tech level, can we please modify "-If a country has not reached at least land and navy 35 (TBD), and trade and infra 5 (TDB) - it will be considered an uncivilized nation (i.e primitive = yes)." so that at least 49 is needed for naval (triple decker ships, supposed to be discovered in 1790 in EU2) and 51 (levee en masse, 1792) for civilised status? I'd bump up trade and infra to 7 as well.

My problem is this: as it stands, almost every nation that starts the 1795 EU2 scenario ends up being civilised in Victoria.

In addition, we need to do something about population levels. Might I suggest that the EU2 savegame result and the Victoria default levels be added and the result divided by two? Because otherwise I cannot see how we will be able to satisfy both players that start with, say, the 1419/1492 scenario, and those that start, say, with the 1773/1795.

An option is to allow the converter to boost population growth levels across the board. Possibly by adding another event triggered by Medicine?

And, finally, I'd suggest converting EU2 fortress level 5s to Vic level 1s and EU2 6s to Vic 2s. Were we to convert EU2 level 4s to Vic 1s, if you play a late scenario, Vic Europe in particular is going to be crammed full of fortifications. If we are unable to take care of the population problem that means a very static game to begin with.
 
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