EU5 is set to have far more Catholic depth than CK3 has after years of development, despite the religion being less important in that time period

[bretjemaine]

The way they handle cardinals doesn't seem to be that great, but (madly) CK3 doesn't even have them.

Tinto Talks #59 - 16th of April 2025

Hello and welcome once again to our super secret Project Caesar Tinto Talks. I will be your host this time, where we will be talking about the mechanics of Catholicism and its associated Catholic Church International Organization. Here’s an...

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[klopkr]

You're not wrong... though saying Catholicism was less relevant in the EU5 time period is very debatable.

I would even go to say it's more important during that period since they had the reformation and colonization.

But regardless CK3 really should get some good papal mechanics.

I am going to go on a wild limb here and say that it won't come until 2027 and it'll be better for it. My wild prediction is that next year will add republicans and trade mostly and economic features. Then in 2027 it'll be the year of religions with playable theocracies now that they've laid so much ground work for unlanded, non dynastic gameplay.
It's a long wait for pretty significant features though. I think college of cardinals shoulda been a mini DLC years ago.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

You're not wrong... though saying Catholicism was less relevant in the EU5 time period is very debatable.

I would even go to say it's more important during that period since they had the reformation and colonization.

But regardless CK3 really should get some good papal mechanics.

I am going to go on a wild limb here and say that it won't come until 2027 and it'll be better for it. My wild prediction is that next year will add republicans and trade mostly and economic features. Then in 2027 it'll be the year of religions with playable theocracies now that they've laid so much ground work for unlanded, non dynastic gameplay.
It's a long wait for pretty significant features though. I think college of cardinals shoulda been a mini DLC years ago.

The power of Catholicism diminishing throughout the EU5 period. First due to the Protestant reformation, then to the rise of absolutism, culminating in the enlightenment. That is not to say it had no influence or political power at the end of the period, but its power was a shadow of its medieval height.

 

[Tufto]

The power of Catholicism diminished throughout the EU5 period. First due to the Protestant reformation, then to the rise of absolutism, culminating in the enlightenment. That is not to say it had no influence or political power at the end of the period, but its power was a shadow of its medieval height.

The power of "Catholicism", if that's even something that can be measured in any meaningful way, is not the same as the power of the Pope. It was still a vitally important part of the early modern world despite the lack of an imperial papacy a la Innocent III.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

The power of "Catholicism", if that's even something that can be measured in any meaningful way, is not the same as the power of the Pope. It was still a vitally important part of the early modern world despite the lack of an imperial papacy a la Innocent III.

When half the continent is following a Protestant faith and the political power of the church is diminishing in Catholic countries, the power of Catholicism is diminishing.

 

[peteoj]

I just generally find it odd how eu5 seems to be shaping to to be a better more indepth medieval simulator than crusader kings three is even after nearly five years of it's release. I'm really looking forward to the Timeline mods for eu5 that push the date further back to 1066 and earlier though I will admit that 1337 is already a pretty great for medieval gameplay.

 

[vyshan]

Maybe the ck3 team should take a trip to spain, chat with Johan and copy all their notes and work and import it into ck3. follow their direction and advice. /s

 

[hajutze]

You are saying this sarcastically, but they might as well...

 

[AchedTeacher]

You're not wrong... though saying Catholicism was less relevant in the EU5 time period is very debatable.

I would even go to say it's more important during that period since they had the reformation and colonization.

But regardless CK3 really should get some good papal mechanics.

I am going to go on a wild limb here and say that it won't come until 2027 and it'll be better for it. My wild prediction is that next year will add republicans and trade mostly and economic features. Then in 2027 it'll be the year of religions with playable theocracies now that they've laid so much ground work for unlanded, non dynastic gameplay.
It's a long wait for pretty significant features though. I think college of cardinals shoulda been a mini DLC years ago.

I mean if they keep doing the current model, each year will introduce a mini DLC and 2 more major DLCs. 2026 could definitely do a Catholicism rework in one of those three. 2025 had a rough theme of Asia, but coronations is a more general expansion, so I don't think 2026 would be any different. It might be economy-focused, but they can definitely include completely different features there. I also suspect that they will shove in a "surprise" addition akin to landless in RtP, and I suspect some type of theocratic government form will become playable, most likely Holy Orders, but who knows, perhaps the actual Papacy will be.

 

[Azgabeth]

Friendly reminder the Orthodox Chruch got NO depth on the BYZANTINE dlc.

Safe to say dev's have pretty much forgotten different religions work differently

 

[apollo1989vieten]

Friendly reminder the Orthodox Chruch got depth on the BYZANTINE dlc.

Safe to say dev's have pretty much forgotten different religions work differently

Not much depth.

 

[Azgabeth]

Not much depth.

meant to say no depth, was a typo

 

[Benismann]

Friendly reminder the Orthodox Chruch got NO depth on the BYZANTINE dlc.

Safe to say dev's have pretty much forgotten different religions work differently

Oh wow, i haven't thought of that but you are very much right.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

Holy Orders, but who knows, perhaps the actual Papacy will be

I have a feeling the CK team needs to reform the "titles-family" basic model to make playing these non-dynastic groups ... managable? I mean you could theoretically play as the Hochmeister's adventurer son if (a pretty big if) you fail to get him elected the next Hochmeister, but isn't it quite a bit of a hassle to get back into the Teutonic Knights in this case?

 

[AchedTeacher]

I have a feeling the CK team needs to reform the "titles-family" basic model to make playing these non-dynastic groups ... managable? I mean you could theoretically play as the Hochmeister's adventurer son if (a pretty big if) you fail to get him elected the next Hochmeister, but isn't it quite a bit of a hassle to get back into the Teutonic Knights in this case?

Oh I meant to say that these entities should play fully as non-dynastic countries, close to landless adventurers. We've crossed the Rubicon on that finally with landless adventurers, so I think we're ready for it.

 

[Azgabeth]

I have a feeling the CK team needs to reform the "titles-family" basic model to make playing these non-dynastic groups ... managable? I mean you could theoretically play as the Hochmeister's adventurer son if (a pretty big if) you fail to get him elected the next Hochmeister, but isn't it quite a bit of a hassle to get back into the Teutonic Knights in this case?

Or you could just choose to play as the next hochmeister regardless of dynasty given they made choosing your heir a mechanic now.

 

[klopkr]

@AchedTeacher You might be right. But I have a bit of a more pessimistic view and think they'd only do one major new playable government type a year and next year will be republics. But they did do landless and byzantine at the same time and they are doing all these new governments for asia.

So I can see where you're coming from.

I just hope that they make it a really big expansion because religion deserves it.

 

[AchedTeacher]

@AchedTeacher You might be right. But I have a bit of a more pessimistic view and think they'd only do one major new playable government type a year and next year will be republics. But they did do landless and byzantine at the same time and they are doing all these new governments for asia.

So I can see where you're coming from.

I just hope that they make it a really big expansion because religion deserves it.

Well technically, this year is already going to have nomadic and celestial. And I believe that All Under Heaven is teased to release even more government forms (although it's hard to tell at this point whether they will be mechanically using the "feudal" name or not).

 

[klopkr]

When half the continent is following a Protestant faith and the political power of the church is diminishing in Catholic countries, the power of Catholicism is diminishing.

Well they did also get two new continents full of conversions.

I'm not sure but does the catholic faith even decline in followers outside of the first 100 years of Protestantism?

I think there's a lot of room to have different interpretations here about whether the catholic religion declined or prospered in that time frame. I see where you're coming from. The pope did lose a lot of its hard power in europe immediately then a decline in hard power in the following centuries towards where we are today. But I also would say that the papacies soft power grew as significantly more lands and people converted and became catholic. Particularly in the Americas.

Well technically, this year is already going to have nomadic and celestial. And I believe that All Under Heaven is teased to release even more government forms (although it's hard to tell at this point whether they will be mechanically using the "feudal" name or not).

Yeah you're convincing me. I'm going to put a little more hope into the dev team.

I want to see playable republics and theocracies next year. That would make me very happy. And maybe it would make people that want european content happier... though I think the 'big HRE' DLC will have to come some day too.

 

[apollo1989vieten]

Well they did also get two new continents full of conversions.

I'm not sure but does the catholic faith even decline in followers outside of the first 100 years of Protestantism?

I think there's a lot of room to have different interpretations here about whether the catholic religion declined or prospered in that time frame. I see where you're coming from. The pope did lose a lot of its hard power in europe immediately then a decline in hard power in the following centuries towards where we are today. But I also would say that the papacies soft power grew as significantly more lands and people converted and became catholic. Particularly in the Americas.

Yeah you're convincing me. I'm going to put a little more hope into the dev team.

I want to see playable republics and theocracies next year. That would make me very happy. And maybe it would make people that want european content happier... though I think the 'big HRE' DLC will have to come some day too.

In Spanish controlled land in North America, Catholicism influence was strong. But French claimed lands, it was pretty weak. And the British colonies were primarily Protestant.

The power I am talking about is hard power. Political power which the church had throughout the medieval world. That power is not limited to how powerful the pope is politically, but how much direct political authority it had. The Protestant reformation took that power away in Scandinavia, Britain, Switzerland, Northern Germany, and the Netherlands. Absolutism had Catholic monarchs claw some of that power away from the church. The enlightenment had people start questioning the current power structure of absolutism and the role of the church within government. In Catholic countries, the soft power of the church could be considered not to have diminished if any Protestants were forced to leave (revocation of tolerance and forced expulsion of Protestants in France, suppression of Protestantism and deportation of Protestants in Hapsburg lands).