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the mediterranean sea complete! i love you :p

now do the area to the urals plz - but i hope that's is already in work for the next version ;)

otherwise, keep em coming, looks very very nice!
 
Yukala said:
Could you make a land route around the Black Sea? It would add much strategy in that area? :cool:

:D Ignore this request if any of the following are true:

A. Short on sleep
B. Your real world relationships have become more noisy and even threatening lately
C. Your mouse arm/hand is beginning ache much more often
A and B would fit in quite well. :D

why don you fuse countrys to make all countrys 16 provices and show ((ethnic boundries??))
Fusing countries together might be a nice thing, if I am to make the map larger, as it seems to run a bit slower than the previous versions... but that will not be in the 0.6. However i have no wish to re-draw the borders, so it would be fusing togeather nations 2 and 2... Not picking a little from each, that would mean i would have to change much on the resources (which i dont want to do... :p
I'll check closer on this after 0.6 is done.

now do the area to the urals plz - but i hope that's is already in work for the next version
This won't be done unless We start merging countries togeather, but if we do it should probably work.
 
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fudd_bopo said:
A and B would fit in quite well. :D


Fusing countries together might be a nice thing, if I am to make the map larger, as it seems to run a bit slower than the previous versions... but that will not be in the 0.6. However i have no wish to re-draw the borders, so it would be fusing togeather nations 2 and 2... Not picking a little from each, that would mean i would have to change much on the resources (which i dont want to do... :p
I'll check closer on this after 0.6 is done.

This won't be done unless We start merging countries togeather, but if we do it should probably work.

what do you exactly mean by 'merging?'
 
boo said:
by merging he means turining 2 or 3 small countries into 1 bigger country and so on
Exactly :D

edit: by the way I added another screenshot a bit up...
 
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fudd_bopo said:
Exactly :D

edit: by the way I added another screenshot a bit up...

i knew that ;) - so you'll enlarge the map, but you won't make more countries, just bigger ones?

and another thing - what about cutting the IC a bit - to about 35 or so? just annexing 3 countries and you get a super power is a little... well unbalanced? but do as you wish, or increase the penalty, so that you only get 50% of the IC or so... just a thought
 
and another thing - what about cutting the IC a bit - to about 35 or so? just annexing 3 countries and you get a super power is a little... well unbalanced? but do as you wish, or increase the penalty, so that you only get 50% of the IC or so... just a thought

What you are saying has a lot of merit and is also quite perplexing as far as that 'game balance' goes.

Kinda like this. You are a good player and can win, yet where is the next challenge on the horizon once you polish off some of your immediate neighbors? Unless you somehow allow or make sure the circumstances of the game mechanics have nicely created one those AI 'superpowers' just across the waters waiting to get a crack at you, the new 'superpower' on the block? :D

Now this is game challenge balance.
 
Yukala said:
What you are saying has a lot of merit and is also quite perplexing as far as that 'game balance' goes.

Kinda like this. You are a good player and can win, yet where is the next challenge on the horizon once you polish off some of your immediate neighbors? Unless you somehow allow or make sure the circumstances of the game mechanics have nicely created one those AI 'superpowers' just across the waters waiting to get a crack at you, the new 'superpower' on the block? :D

Now this is game challenge balance.

i am sorry to say that i don't understand you enough - are you agreeing with me or not? ;) (altho i went to the US for one year, i don't clearly understand the way you argue... it's been to long i guess)

sure there is no way yet that the computer is a tough enemy (i am sure that i am smarter ;) ), but there has got to be a way for the AI to see that i am getting to strong... oh well i guess you would need a whole army of AI professionals to see this coming... but there's got to be a way to get more of a challenge, i win every single time. on the hardest settings - just by conquering neighboring states quick enough and getting the precious IC i need to sustain my 'empire'. See it as this: you are like scandinavia, having all of the scandinavian land plus finland, you cannot be beaten by the AI. you have 200+ IC, and even the AI with maybe some superpower (most often in Spain) with 300+ IC cannot pose a challenge, since they seem not to get a larger army than 100 divisions, while i have 100 mechanized divisions and dozens of pazer divisions and so on and on...

I mean, this game is fun, but let's say i am the guy who likes offensive game play, i win until the 1940 have arrived, if not earlier.

Ok, maybe i am exaggerating. maybe i am to critical. but always remember Fudd, i just am addicted to your scenario!
 
Hi, it is probably not just my English that I am sometimes 'hard' to understand. :rofl:

In making a challenging game, one might analyze it starting from what you said.

You begin early and conquer some of your immediate neighbors; have a large enough IC/resource base to build an armed forces that is very formidable no matter how 'strong' more distant AI countries get. Add to that, you are simply a better player than the AI.

We could divide the game like WWII, Germany gobbles a few small countries and gears up big time.

The next part is hard to code in AI behavior, have the Soviets wait and muscle up for a few years until you as Germany has become a military super-power. Next is EVEN way harder and considered AI wise still impossible, have a distant super-power gear up as well and hit over large expanse of ocean not in one direction but two and this nicely timed or staggered when you as Germany are deep inside Mother Russia.

So here there are identified at least three phases for the game to develop and handle.

A. Small countries geared to be conquered (in vanilla by the way, France is purposefully hampered with special lines of code, tailered just for this to happen and boy do players bitch if France falls to easy or not at all !! )

B. Second; It is super-power vs. super-power full at it (read Eastern Front) Again a bunch a carefully timed code-lines are utilized to keep the Soviets on track both to gear up on schedule and be 'strong' by 1943 at the latest when war is supposed turn on Germany.

C. Third bring on yet a another super-power, a DISTANT one emphasis important to battle not just the Germans but all across the planet take on and DEFEAT another power which is locked upon endless chains of islands.

Well good luck !!!

Now for us making 'what-if' battle scenarios our task is MUCH simpler yet still very difficult. That is make at least an interesting and challenging two phase game.

A. Again where you fight the first wars on a small scale with immediate neighbors.

B. Again now as super-power find some other AI super-power whether close or far ready to give you a challenge for your life.

So I ask? Has that EVER happened in playing a game? Just point A and B not to mention a on-going challenge thereafter.

From what you said already the answer is no.

So back to point one. Where do set starting IC?

Low, middle, high, or very high?
If too low, nothing of merit happens not even the first A. Unless you carefully start with a loaded deck. That is a hefty OOB at scenario start. For this will afford low IC and even low resources IF you give them a stockpile at start or ally with them.

If middle or higher IC with resources are available at scenario start, it becomes a horse-race to see who gets strongest fastest. And experienced players prove that they will always win this race.

This is the simple breakdown.

Add some of these twists listed below and sometimes you can get the game to do both A and B nicely.

Alliances
Diplomatic prejudices and hampers
Forts and locked troops
Strong starting OOB
Peace modifiers to hamper humans who sit too long building up armed forces
Events that literally cheat by swooping in troops and IC at the 'right' times and 'conditions'
Techs plans and trading schemes that favor an up and coming AI super-power (you hope as a designer)
Keeping the occupying cost high and advantages low
Another nefarious one that CIV II utilized is automatic dog-piling on the human whenever it was numerically 'ahead'. Essentially all diplomatic actions stopped in favor of DoW on the human who had dared to get ahead.

Those are some the rich tools we can use as modders (game designers) to get a 'balanced challenging and perhaps even thus long-lasting game'. Presenting challenges to the player in the formative beginning of the game, middle and ending. A dream.... :D

Yet, I have not yet seen this occur where it is with a formidable AI to boot.

Right now, no matter your settings, they lock in at start-up. In 1.3 it may finally be possible to have different AI strategies in the game after it is going based on WHAT the human does.
 
what about cutting the IC a bit
Cutting the IC a bit might be a good idea.

Alliances
1Diplomatic prejudices and hampers
2Forts and locked troops
3Strong starting OOB
4Peace modifiers to hamper humans who sit too long building up armed forces
5Events that literally cheat by swooping in troops and IC at the 'right' times and 'conditions'
6Techs plans and trading schemes that favor an up and coming AI super-power (you hope as a designer)
7Keeping the occupying cost high and advantages low
8Another nefarious one that CIV II utilized is automatic dog-piling on the human whenever it was numerically 'ahead'. Essentially all diplomatic actions stopped in favor of DoW on the human who had dared to get ahead.
1- The AI did create some alliances in the earlier versions, don't know why they stopped though, I could try to fix that but I don't know much about the AI file.
2- forts and locked troops might be a good idea, the troops would make it harder to invade an enemy in the beginning of the game.
3- I don't know about a strong starting oob, wouldn't it be enough with the locked troops?
4- How do i make peace modifiers?
5- I've been thinking quite much about events that hurts an belligerent country, but I'm such a newbie at modding events I haven't managed to get any done.
7- By the occupying cost... do you mean the one in misc.txt?

And thanks for all the tips and suggestions. :D
Now I just have to find some time to do this. :(
 
You are welcome and no problem. It is an interesting conversation! :D

I can look at your AI files and scenarios files and fix the alliances so they happen like clock-work.
I was not advocating 'strong starting OOB' as it is hard work and changes the nature of the game a lot. In RiskLight I have adopted a small generic OOB and near zero at-start techs where each country starts out the same. I also whacked the IC's again.
Peace modifier is placed in each country scenario inc. file. easy.
Just tonight I started writing events, and hey they worked !! They are all designed to handle 'to fast' human players who go to super-power status. Some real nasty events.
Yes, occupying modifier is in the misc. file.

Ah, time... it is now again past 3AM and I am still at it !!!
:wacko:
 
Yukala said:
You are welcome and no problem. It is an interesting conversation! :D

I can look at your AI files and scenarios files and fix the alliances so they happen like clock-work.
I was not advocating 'strong starting OOB' as it is hard work and changes the nature of the game a lot. In RiskLight I have adopted a small generic OOB and near zero at-start techs where each country starts out the same. I also whacked the IC's again.
Peace modifier is placed in each country scenario inc. file. easy.
Just tonight I started writing events, and hey they worked !! They are all designed to handle 'to fast' human players who go to super-power status. Some real nasty events.
Yes, occupying modifier is in the misc. file.

Ah, time... it is now again past 3AM and I am still at it !!!
:wacko:

hehe coool. If AI doesn't do it, just cut the IC. 30-35 IC at the beginning should be good enough. someone eralier mentioned, that every nation should start out with like 2-5 militia divisions, so that overrunning a neighbouring country shouldn't be that easy.

I noticed that Brandenburg always gets hammered April 1937 - 10 or more nations declaring war on it at the same time... is this because of Brandenburgs location or something else?

Also, Lithunia or Poland (the orange one below Prussia) is always getting very very strong, while others lose all the time (*cough* austria *cough*, that being due to their still democratic conservative politics) - also due to their location backed up by the map's end?

well, good game anyway, no way to doubt it, highly interesting, every time again!
 
The Mod is absolutely amazing, but I think it's very hard to keep up with my neighbours. I attacked Svealand as Norrland with 35 divisions. I had the highest amount of infantry, Svealand had 12. And a week later, scotland topped the list with 150 infantry ect. Svealand beat me with 80 divs, shortly after.

I just couldn't keep up with production.

But in general, amazing mod. Great replayability. I would like to see a Middle-East/Asia mod in the same fashion. And later an American mod. ;)
 
Gen.Schuermann said:
hehe coool. If AI doesn't do it, just cut the IC. 30-35 IC at the beginning should be good enough. someone eralier mentioned, that every nation should start out with like 2-5 militia divisions, so that overrunning a neighbouring country shouldn't be that easy.
Maybe if we make each country get some divisions which can't be moved like in some battle scenarios... (how to do this?)
And yes, the IC is probably too high, feels like you get a huge advantage when taking some provinces... maybe this could be lowered some 10 - 20 IC?
Gen.Schuermann said:
I noticed that Brandenburg always gets hammered April 1937 - 10 or more nations declaring war on it at the same time... is this because of Brandenburgs location or something else?
I don't know what causes everyone to hate brandenburg...

Gen.Schuermann said:
Also, Lithunia or Poland (the orange one below Prussia) is always getting very very strong, while others lose all the time (*cough* austria *cough*, that being due to their still democratic conservative politics) - also due to their location backed up by the map's end?
I think you're talking about lithuania, probably they get strong because of their geographical advantage of being placed at the edge of the map... they can't be attacked by as many neighbours at the same time, though this also makes the nations they can attack fewer so they don't have so much choice. (don't know how much they care though....) :rolleyes:

Gen.Schuermann said:
well, good game anyway, no way to doubt it, highly interesting, every time again!
Thanks for playing it and for taking your time to give your opinions on how to make this a better mod! :D

Da Swede said:
But in general, amazing mod. Great replayability. I would like to see a Middle-East/Asia mod in the same fashion. And later an American mod. ;)
I've been thinking about if it would be better to use south eastern asia instead, but since I have started on Europe I am too lazy to move it... :eek:

You are welcome and no problem. It is an interesting conversation!

Yukala said:
I can look at your AI files and scenarios files and fix the alliances so they happen like clock-work.
I was not advocating 'strong starting OOB' as it is hard work and changes the nature of the game a lot. In RiskLight I have adopted a small generic OOB and near zero at-start techs where each country starts out the same. I also whacked the IC's again.
Peace modifier is placed in each country scenario inc. file. easy.
Just tonight I started writing events, and hey they worked !! They are all designed to handle 'to fast' human players who go to super-power status. Some real nasty events.
Yes, occupying modifier is in the misc. file.

Ah, time... it is now again past 3AM and I am still at it !!!
Is peace IC modifier something like "peace_mod = #"? also what numbers do what is it 0 - 100 (like 70) or 0 - 1 (like 0.70)?

What did you do in those events for "too fast" players? what did they do and what did you use as a trigger? (I'm trying to get an idea of what can be done...)

How high do you think the occupation modifier should be? I mean does it really bother a country if it's like 5 tc? or do i need more?

As for the alliances, what is it that decide how often they happen?
Is it the "neutrality = #" if yes is there anything more that helps deciding this?
 
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Yes, peace modifier is this:

peacetime_ic_mod = 1.0
Place in each countries inc file after the command, 'country = {'

A 1.0 setting has NO affect however, as 1.0 is 100% of current IC
IF set to = 0.70 then it is 70% of the current IC
again if set to = 1.15 then it raises current or inherent IC to 115%.

It must have digits on both side of the dot. Even if only a zero. And of course only affects country not at war.

So far the triggers I am working with are two universal ones, ;'dissent' and 'belligerence' where basically you get hammered as human player if the pace of DoW and annexations is two swift. I will next research using IC levels. The human can recover, but it will slow them down.

Settings in the misc. file to use for curbing expansion; set low each of these:

IC Non-National Province Multiplier
IC Non-Owned Province Multiplier

setting act like above.

You can also slow them down by raise TC load factors
You can also slow down new division builds by combining these two things:
In misc. file raise the following; Reinforcement Manpower Cost Factor [3.0]; Reinforce cost [2.15]; Reinforce time [4.5];
Brackets indicate my setting in RiskMod2 given for reference against vanilla as this can take time to get these balanced. :cool:
To finish here you go to the AI files and on top leading code lines add or discover:
reinforcement = 0.5
upgrading = 0.28
Now again those are RiskMod2 settings, but are a useful benchmark. What is happening here is that the AI's must set aside a lot of their IC to both reinforce or upgrade if either are called for in game. As the human does, so it will likewise curb thier building new units.

As far as the AI's picking on Brandenburg or anyone else for that matter when the diplo setting is a constant which I believe it is in your scenario (sorry I have not play it yet) means the government is communist most likely. Change all Communist and Democratic governments to Paternal Autocrate. This is easy just change the first two policy slidders to 7 and 1 respectively in the country scenario inc file.

The why for this, is hard-coding dictating prejudice of governments to another kind of government and take from me this solution is much more handy and easier than endless mind-numbing tweaking.... in diplo and war settings. I found some of this may still occurs when you keep fascist governments, but their character fits these battle-scenario. So a mix of 60% Paternal Autocrate and 40% Fascist should work out nicely.
 
Yukala said:
As far as the AI's picking on Brandenburg or anyone else for that matter when the diplo setting is a constant which I believe it is in your scenario (sorry I have not play it yet) means the government is communist most likely. Change all Communist and Democratic governments to Paternal Autocrate. This is easy just change the first two policy slidders to 7 and 1 respectively in the country scenario inc file.

The why for this, is hard-coding dictating prejudice of governments to another kind of government and take from me this solution is much more handy and easier than endless mind-numbing tweaking.... in diplo and war settings. I found some of this may still occurs when you keep fascist governments, but their character fits these battle-scenario. So a mix of 60% Paternal Autocrate and 40% Fascist should work out nicely.
As far as i know Brandenburg have the same government as everyone else (exept austria, which have been fixed in the next version) is there anything else that would make a country a target? i noticed that those who attacked austria in the beginning of the game was never one of their neighbours.. they were much later.

So, currently every nation has the same government... which i entend to change since they give little (if any) dissent when declaring war.... ( :eek: )
 
fudd_bopo said:
As far as i know Brandenburg have the same government as everyone else (exept austria, which have been fixed in the next version) is there anything else that would make a country a target? i noticed that those who attacked austria in the beginning of the game was never one of their neighbours.. they were much later.

So, currently every nation has the same government... which i entend to change since they give little (if any) dissent when declaring war.... ( :eek: )

For the fun of it, i started a game as austria - wanted to fortify it, like i did with prussia before, when i did a belt of fortifications, which was quite cool (in that game, i got about 300 IC, and FLANDERS ruled, with over 700IC !!!!!)

Oh, before i forget it - in the austria game they finally allied - to bad the nations that allied already had all at least 125 IC... i was finally overpowered :(
 
Is the 'combat =' setting constant for each country in the AI file ?

There are no at-start beligerence settings?
At-start OOB?
Do some countries gear up faster with relative same IC?

In each country inc. are there still any 'diplomatic = ' settings?

There are only a few more factors each however more obscure. But the 'fix' can be simpler.

IF combat settings are constant then 'lower' Brandenburg 20 points off the rest.
 
Yukala said:
Is the 'combat =' setting constant for each country in the AI file ?

There are no at-start beligerence settings?
At-start OOB?
Do some countries gear up faster with relative same IC?

In each country inc. are there still any 'diplomatic = ' settings?

There are only a few more factors each however more obscure. But the 'fix' can be simpler.

IF combat settings are constant then 'lower' Brandenburg 20 points off the rest.

The settings in the ai file is equal to each country.
There are no belligerence at start.
No at-start OOB's.
I believe some countries are slower on building up their military than others (dunno why) but Brandenburg is not the only one (if they do, haven't checked this).
No diplomatic settings...

Oh, before i forget it - in the austria game they finally allied - to bad the nations that allied already had all at least 125 IC... i was finally overpowered
Yes I've also noticed that they sometimes do ally, but then it becomes an almost invincible alliance, more often than not including the 2-3 countries with most IC + some others... At least it's challenging :D
 
fudd_bopo said:
Yes I've also noticed that they sometimes do ally, but then it becomes an almost invincible alliance, more often than not including the 2-3 countries with most IC + some others... At least it's challenging :D

If you play standard 0.5 austria, it is :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: