I mean Caen is what Normandy was all about. Without Caen the allies could not push out into the country side. We need a good city map to fight over. Don't make me beg.......
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Where are Maps from : Bayeux, Carentan, Saint Lo, Villers Boacage, Cherbourg, Falaise, Coutrances, etc. etc. etc. there are so many important Towns where the Battle took place.
There was no battle for or in Caen itself...the germans simply moved out of it. If they hadn't, Montgomery would still be trying to take it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Charnwood
Anyway, the devs have said that a map that is just an urban city wouldn't work because Armoured divisions would be at a large disadvantage, and it would, of course, be dominated by infantry, artillery and aircraft, playing much slower as a result. There are maps set near Caen, though, such as Carpiquet airfield, Colombelles, and Hill 112.
How do you make a big city map that doesn't turn into an arty hell spamfest? We already have tons of memes about how you have to flatten even small towns to take it and this would be even worse.
Seriously. Explain to me how because I'm also interested in these town fights.
Seriously. Explain to me how because I'm also interested in these town fights.
Larger towns would allow for breakthroughs within the town. You saw this with Copenhagen in ALB. The problem with SD towns is that all of them are quite small so there's no way to do a local breakthrough, it's just a slog since the fighting is focused on a narrow front.
I think you'd need a proper urban area at least 3 times as large as the factory on Collombelles to make it worth it. I don't think it's a machine taxation problem either. We've got tons of buildings on the map now as is, just that they are spread out.
Ok, so you make a local breakthrough.
I see the front line move.
I use all these nebels/xylophones to level the area.
You are now on fire.
I see the front line move.
I use all these nebels/xylophones to level the area.
You are now on fire.
Exactly. Pair that with the fact that armour is next to useless in a large urban environment, and you have a map that isn't that fun to play. At least, not with all the divisions. I imagine the 6th Airborne would play well in that sort of environment. And the 15th Scottish and the 3rd Canadian with their AVREs and flame tanks/Universal Carriers.
Didn't stop them having maps like Copenhagen or Wonsan Harbour in Wargame.
Which is particularly odd given it's so much easier to use armour in built up areas in SD in comparison to Wargame, it's actually worth microing vehicles in towns to support your infantry (Brummbar is one of my favoruite units), when in Wargame you wouldn't because it'd just die.
Also if it was a 10v10 map it'd probably be large enough for them to fit in a large chunk of the surrounding countryside, if that's their concern.
Did you actually read that reference, or any other work on Charnwood? It was a limited two day offensive to secure part of the city. A full assault intending to take it would have had enormous problems, seeing a river ran through the centre of it. 12SS HJ held the Canadians up for weeks on an airport, a concerted effort to hold Caen would have turned the city into a second Stalingrad.
Yeah, I don't know if these people ever played Red Dragon, but armor in cities in SD is like a Gorillion times more effective in towns than it was in RD.
700m ranged RPG-7VR and AT4 anyone? You can park a Sherman or really any firesupport vehicle on a street now and use it to cover your leapfrogging quite easily.
It's pretty funny that some people here want to use all that rocket artillery as a reason not to do this............... as if you don't already have those same responses for areas that aren't urban. "See front move, nuke it" is pretty standard already.
DIFFERENCE:
Buildings provide better cover and you can relocate to a new building even easier than you can that next hedgerow with a 50m gap of open field you've got to run through.
At the very least, a proper urban map or two would break the god damn monotony of hedgerows after hedgerows. Christ, what I wouldn't give for a few bridges to fight over even. Yeah yeah yeah, it sounded great in the beginning to be rid of all the bottlenecks from Red Dragon, but now I want some flavor. Fighting over bushes all the time is droll.
But it still means that your original post (or at least, the wording of it) was wrong. Operation Charnwood ended with the city north of the river in British hands, and Operation Goodwood ended with it completely behind the British front lines.
What I'm saying is that there was fighting in the city of Caen itself (not that the Germans 'simply moved out of it' and the Anglo-Canadians just walked in as your post suggests), and I think I've heard the Battle of Caen being compared to the Battle of Stalingrad at least once.
Was the comparison "the Battle of Caen was like Stalingrad in that both took place in urban areas"?
Because in no other way are they comparable.
Ummm...if you include a bit of skirmishing with rearguards and capturing half a dozen villages as 'city fighting', you have a point. That would make the comparison with Stalingrad valid, as it would include the capture of the village of Kalach forty kilometres to the west of Stalingrad.
The British/Canadians, to that point of the war, had fought no battles in a city...unless you include the loss of a battalion garrison in Hong Kong.