Faking Population Multiplier

[Spiltzer]

I know to some people, it would sound silly, but looking at the videos, it seems like a reasonable mod to consider making. Since the high density buildings can simulate only a fraction of what a realistic number of residents associated with the building would be, we could make something like a population multiplier mod. The simplest way is just changing the population displayed on the bottom of the screen by multiplying it by 3. Going further, since only the high density buildings are unrealistic with respect to population, how about counting up the residents living in high density apartments (if possible) and multiplying only by 2 and add to the real population? I don't really know how the game handles population hence the following questions:

Would it interfere with achievements/ 1 million population cap? I wouldn't think that those things were made to depend on what number is displayed on screen. If achievements are not dependent on displayed population, then we would have to make appropriate changes to achievements. If 1 million population cap is dependent on displayed population, we would have the problem of not going over the actual population that is less than 1 million (for example, if the displayed population says 1 million (but there are actually 1/3 of people simulated in the city) and if the 1 million cap is dependent on displayed population, then the city would stop growing after 1/3 of a million actual population. Obviously, we would like the displayed figure to go over 1 million.

 

[SimonJM]

Is population the only think you like to fake? :laugh:

Just kidding, why not make this mod? I'd probably like to know both though, real Cim and "simulated population" numbers.

 

[Kanimir]

+100. I said from the beginning that the population is unrealisticaly low, cities with 200 000 people look like 2mln cities. And sure, many people dont care, "its just a number" but many people do care, including me, we like numbers. So yeah, cant wait for this mod (and the game, lol).

 

[copper1212]

One thing I also noticed watching a live stream was a guy clicked on some fairly large office buildings and it showed 6 people working in them or something ridiculous. He commented how it looked like they could hold 200 by the size of them.

 

[datwr]

I'm divided on the idea, it's cool to see how many people are actually simulated in the city, even with the "small" number there is a lot going, I cant get my head around simulating behaviors of 100k+ people
But in the other direction, when you look at buildings and stuff, you see there isn't that many people in each one. Creating that "loss" of immersion.

The way I would probably do it, is either have two population number, one for the population and one for simulated people, you get the best from both worlds. Or a way to switch between them.
Or just put like a 1/10x symbol next to the population, saying that only a tenth of the population is simulated (if you have the real population showing), or 10x if the other way around.

 

[GrauPanther]

Is the number of people inside a building an indication of the success of that particular building, influencing upgrades or abandonment? Fudging a population number in individual buildings might influence that process, yet to me the number of people living or working inside a building is more interesting to me than the overall pop.# displayed for the city as a whole.
Not sure if it would be possible to make a mod that generates two numbers for a buildings: non-simulated (the silent majority) and simulated (the schmucks who fill out surveys ;-) The non-simulated being a multiple of the simulated agents. That would be the most elegant solution I guess...although the non-simulated would not be generating extra traffic etc.

 

[Brazilian Joe]

SC2013 had fudged numbers and it was widely hated. I don't want to see fudged numbers in the base simulation.
As MOD, go for it! If it's your cup of tea.

 

[BStyles]

I don't think people can make up their minds. If it's not the group who despised fudged population in SC2013, it's the group that wants fudged population in Cities: Skylines.

Placing 12 people in a highrise is unrealistic? How about stuffing three families into a trailer, as they did in SC2013 and SC BuildIt? There really is no common ground, is there?

 

[GrauPanther]

Actually, the solution of allowing only a small number of agents in large buildings is itself a fudge...so this would be some kind of counter-fudge.

Personally, I would have preferred normal numbers for each building, including high rises, but with a much lesser (and more realistic) chance of high rises occurring, which would make them a more worthwhile achievement while keeping overall population numbers under control ( < 1,000,000) as well.

 

[datwr]

I don't think people can make up their minds. If it's not the group who despised fudged population in SC2013, it's the group that wants fudged population in Cities: Skylines.

Placing 12 people in a highrise is unrealistic? How about stuffing three families into a trailer, as they did in SC2013 and SC BuildIt? There really is no common ground, is there?

This is not really a discussion about what's the best way to do population tho. But more of how a mod for the population number would work ingame. The biggest problem I think people had was that you couldn't see the difference between the simulation people and the population number, so they thought everyone was simulated. The easiest way do work around that would be a clear way to differentiate the two.

 

[flyer2359x]

I hope it's left like it is.

 

[Kanimir]

SC2013 had fudged numbers and it was widely hated. I don't want to see fudged numbers in the base simulation.
As MOD, go for it! If it's your cup of tea.

It was widely hated because they fudged the numbers TOO much. We don't want it to be too much like in SC13 or too low like in C:SL, we just want it to be more or less realistic. A big city full of skyscrapers with 32 000 people is not realistic.

 

[RustyCool]

Actually, the solution of allowing only a small number of agents in large buildings is itself a fudge...so this would be some kind of counter-fudge.

Personally, I would have preferred normal numbers for each building, including high rises, but with a much lesser (and more realistic) chance of high rises occurring, which would make them a more worthwhile achievement while keeping overall population numbers under control ( < 1,000,000) as well.

This could be a solution... Less high rises but real numbers in them.

I really dont want any type of fudge numbers, that would ruin it for me as SC2013 did.

 

[greenOak]

It was widely hated because they fudged the numbers TOO much. We don't want it to be too much like in SC13 or too low like in C:SL, we just want it to be more or less realistic. A big city full of skyscrapers with 32 000 people is not realistic.

Yeah this. I just want realistic numbers (fudged or not), and the actual number of agents in CSL is not realistic or at least not realistic for the big apartment buildings. I would be very interested in such a mod.

 

[Spiltzer]

Well, I guess that is why this is in the modding section of the forum! If you don't want it, then just don't give it a thought! For those of you who want to do this, how do you think we can implement this given what we know? It seems easiest if we can make changes to the UI (but CO has said that UI modding is not officially supported).

 

[Kanimir]

Well, I guess that is why this is in the modding section of the forum! If you don't want it, then just don't give it a thought! For those of you who want to do this, how do you think we can implement this given what we know? It seems easiest if we can make changes to the UI (but CO has said that UI modding is not officially supported).

Exactly, I dont get why would anyone be against it since it's suppose to be a mod, noone forces anyone to install it. And yeah, I guess it may not be as easy as it sounds, but I guess it can't be THAT hard either? Or at least I hope so.

 

[baronsabato]

I think the best way to mod the numbers is to make it so that low-density residential stays the same, since those numbers are generally pretty realistic, and then multiple the high density residential numbers by, say, 5 (arbitrary number, but I think it would make for a more realistic number). Then whatever your final population number is might still not be that high, but at least be somewhat closer to reality.

Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about modding and have no idea if this is possible.

 

[Kanimir]

I think the best way to mod the numbers is to make it so that low-density residential stays the same, since those numbers are generally pretty realistic, and then multiple the high density residential numbers by, say, 5 (arbitrary number, but I think it would make for a more realistic number). Then whatever your final population number is might still not be that high, but at least be somewhat closer to reality.

Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about modding and have no idea if this is possible.

Yeah, that would be the best because if we multiply everything we will end up with low density being too fudged.

 

[Hiramas]

In general I would not have an issue with slightly faked numbers in the game. After all it is only realistic that not every member of a household works.
Commercial consumption already seems to be a lot higher than in reality so that wouldn't even need to be adjusted.
The important factor is that we KNOW what and how much is faked.
Concerning the numbers, I would say multiply everything by 3 would be a reasonable fake.
Having a household with 3 members but one worker/car seems to be a good representation of reality.
50 - 60 people working in a high rise office building instead of 20 may still be unrealistic, but a good compromise.

I am sure all the variables could be modded in the long run, even with possible adjustments in traffic and so on.

 

[rikmarkes]

I would absolutely use this Mod, but:

- the multiplier should only be applied to buildings that don't have realistic numbers, like highrises. The multiplying factor should be way higher than 3, since a highrise can sustain hundreds of times the amounts we'll have on release;
- highrises spawn should be rarer;
- number of population served by public services and mass transit should be also affected to reflect the "created" population.

I understand the people that are against this, but keep in mind that, as it is now, every agent, every citizen is riding a car at any time. It's not realistic and knowing this, the "faked" numbers can be taken simply as people that stays at home, watching some movie at a cinema, inside a office etc... The real agents will keep showing on the streets of our cities, giving us headaches to solve.

In the end, people that are against it, can always chose not to use the Mod. No harm done.