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This makes me doubtful as to the viability of the game. It makes it sound like it remains much of the same. Worrying indeed.

All I read is that all the most requested things on the forums won't be in the game because arent possible or they havent thought of a way.

Makes it sounds like its gonna be an improved version of CK2 with a much better and accessible UI, but nothing brand new apparently so far.... which is really disappointing.

i get that feeling too. But I'm not sure it's a bad thing. But maybe it is? I'm on the fence. CK2 is doing really well but is is being held back. This seems like a light reboot of CK2. Kind of like boxing all of the DLC's into a single package to make it accessible to new players, with the bonus of cutting out things they don't want in the game anymore. That model could actually work really well, and i support it.
But I was also hoping that they would wait a few years, and release a game that is much more different and advanced.
Honestly, I could go either way with it.
 
im not sure i understand what multiple alliances being not "super common on the level ck3 represents" means. if it means for the period, of course it was common for any given lord to have holdings in different realms. if anything, there was no such ridiculous cheesing like if a vassal succeeded in my realm first and then in yours and if the title is lower then it becomes mine. if it means for the feudal mechanic ck represents, then of course it isn't common because ck's representation is...well, wrong.
 
Characters traits will be much more visible but they are likely going to have fewer traits so quality over quantity here. Role playing seems to be more of a focus.
In the case of traits, quantity IS quality.
The more traits you have available, the more ways there are to represent a character.

I'm not a fan of this change, but we'll see...
 
In the case of traits, quantity IS quality.
The more traits you have available, the more ways there are to represent a character.

I'm not a fan of this change, but we'll see...

I don't think they mean there will be less traits overall, but that each character will have less of them at any given time, while each trait will have a greater impact on a characters' "personality".

So instead of being; "greedy, chaste, wroth, humble, gregarious, honest, brave and trusting", you're defining characteristics will be just "greedy and brave". Sure, you might be slightly more trusting than the average fellow, but it wont be a defining trait in the sense that these are the things people always identify you with. They are the two values that inform you decisions the most and would then impact your decisions. Rather than now where you can have 3-5 "special" choices in a given even based on you wide array of traits.

It is a sound principle from storytelling that you focus on the attributes that most define a person, rather than try to illuminate every nuance of every person you interact with.
 
Heresies seem another focus of the game. Maybe they hint at a religion mechanics overhaul too?

Maybe they will finally represent the great schism? I wonder if it's what is intended by dynamic religions, or if it mostly refers to paganism.

In the case of traits, quantity IS quality.
The more traits you have available, the more ways there are to represent a character.

I'm not a fan of this change, but we'll see...

Yes, to an extent. For exemple roleplaying I had many characters leaning towards grabing more virtues, and sinful characters more sins (especially starting with young character where I need to pick traits through events based on very limited input). Other traits felt less machiavelian, but overall having more traits mean it's possible to have grey personalities rather than black or white.

But then I agree with the premise that traits in itself did not have a lot of impact other the game. I personnaly just used that as a roleplaying tool (I would play very passively conquest with a content ruler, ie. he might only press his strong claims, or his close kins' and would not plot to murder). But then say a content deceitful ruler can be a bit more spicy to roleplay :p
 
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[Mod edit: No reddit links. site rules]
The above links to imgur:
https://imgur.com/a/XLc6DOy

My takeaways:
No baron or landless play
Modding should be easier (or at least that's the hope)
They haven't found a good solution for "multivassality" (I think someone used that phrase here)

Disappointing. For me, it's look like a lot as a "CK2.5" rather than a CK3, and it's not the few rare new features annonced (cadet branches, knight, the "skill tree"...) that will make me think the opposite. I hope they'll announce new (by new I mean... new, not adapted from CK2) major features after.
I really hoped that a CK3 with a new game engine could get rid of technical issues preventing multi-vassality, playing theocracies/holy orders and everything else that wasn't possible in CK2, but it seems that it won't be the case.
 
But then I agree with the premise that traits in itself did not have a lot of impact other the game. I personnaly just used that as a roleplaying tool (I would play very passively conquest with a content ruler, ie. he might only press his strong claims, or his close kins' and would not plot to murder). But then say a content deceitful ruler can be a bit more spicy to roleplay
That's a fair point.
 
Still, the total amount of traits/abilities/modifiers a person can have needs to come down.

Currently most rulers in CK2 accumulate so many different traits, lifestyles and random "icons" that it is difficult to get any sort of read on what kind of person they are. Likewise, the great number of modifiers accumulated from 7 sins/virtues + misc other "icons" means that characters quickly develop super-powered attribute scores.
 
Don't worry, with time DLCs will bring enough new traits to repeat the trait bloat we have now.
But it would be indeed nice if those traits actually mean something aside from just giving a passive bonus.
 
CK2 started with much less trait that the actual ones.

That they streamline the traits is good, that they keep it that way, and don't add new traits at every update, or worse dlc, is all to see.

The real problem is that "traits" is a hodepodge of really different things, that include being a monk, a genius, being kind or a falcooner. Of course they tend to pile up.
 
In the case of traits, quantity IS quality.
The more traits you have available, the more ways there are to represent a character.

I'm not a fan of this change, but we'll see...
It's a bit unclear what traits are about to represent.
They are used to show your personality, your health/illnesses, your genetical advantages/disadvantages, what sect you belong to, that you're the savior of your people, what hobby you have in life, your sexuality, and so on and so on
 
Why even have trait-based character sheets still?

There should be something like "Bio" which covers health, age, sex, sexuality, ethnicity, all that sort of stuff.
"Traits" then should be just the personality stuff.
If you want other elements like hobbies and so on, that should be a separate category again.

If we get a do-over for CK3, might as well sort it out properly from the beginning, right? No?
 
The problem with fewer traits is that it leads to only two possible outcomes and both are bad.

Outcome one is that there are a small number that are still relatively attainable over time, which means every old character ends up with more or less all the same traits and RP is destroyed.

Outcome two is that there are a small number that are NOT relatively attainable over time, which is arguably worse because it means you'll go 60 years getting an extremely small handful of traits, your characters will never really differentiate and again RP is destroyed.

There needs to be enough traits that you can routinely get a healthy number over his lifetime to feel like your character is developing/unique while also being enough so that the guy next to you also has his own healthy number that are different than yours. THAT is how each character feels unique and you get attached to them.
 
Why is this on Reddit and not the actual forum.
Just want to echo this as well. Sort of vexing that one has to scrounge through Reddit / Twitter / etc. to get a complete picture of what the devs have released, rather than having it centralized on their forum.
 
its said that the building system works well in the multiplayer sessions, i might be wrong but dont they usually leave the multiplayer sessions till later on in development when the games more stable and playable? i seem to recall reading a dev say something like that?.
CK3 has been in devlopment for 4 years now and I hope they learnt their lessons from Stellaris, HoI4 and Imperator. Not only the game shouldn't be release too long after the announcement (otherwise you build way too much hype and people get crazy expectations), but it should also be functional at release. It's a good thing that CK3 seems already quite advanced in development, at least when it comes to important features.

In the case of traits, quantity IS quality.
The more traits you have available, the more ways there are to represent a character.
I'm going to strongly disagree with that. More traits is nice to use your imagination (which isn't the same thing as roleplay), but in the end a lot of traits in CK2 were just modifiers. And even when they were not, most of the time they just open a better option in dialogues. There are very few traits that really open new opportunities for roleplay.
I prefer when traits actually matter in the gameplay. Quality over quantity is a good policy.
It makes me think of Stellaris. Lots of civics are just lame modifiers - I would gladly have less civics overall if they all changed something in the playstyle.

The problem with fewer traits is that it leads to only two possible outcomes and both are bad.

Outcome one is that there are a small number that are still relatively attainable over time, which means every old character ends up with more or less all the same traits and RP is destroyed.

Outcome two is that there are a small number that are NOT relatively attainable over time, which is arguably worse because it means you'll go 60 years getting an extremely small handful of traits, your characters will never really differentiate and again RP is destroyed.

There needs to be enough traits that you can routinely get a healthy number over his lifetime to feel like your character is developing/unique while also being enough so that the guy next to you also has his own healthy number that are different than yours. THAT is how each character feels unique and you get attached to them.
You're assuming that RP is dependant on the amount of traits you got. I disagree for two reason:
First, because it's a lie. Characters with a lot of traits are just optimized characters. You can't define a personality with 15+traits. Good characters are defined by how they behave accordingly to their traits. If a character only has 5 traits but there are combos and opportunities which each one of them, then it is definitly better for RP.
Second, because too many people assume that roleplaying means "I have X trait, so as a player I will do that". But no. Roleplaying isn't "using your imagination to take decisions". Roleplaying works best when there's a solide gameplay to support it. If my zealous anger-prone character kills infidel on sight without my need to intervene, then it's good for roleplay.

I would also add that even with a small number of traits, combined with the new skill trees, we probably already have a lot of diversity. And anyway, it's not like yopu have many possibilities in CK2. Generally a character with many traits was good in every situation. Most of those trait-heavy characters were built on a handful of specific traits anyway. Like I said, too many traits means that there's no dominant trait defining the character. The powerful warrior, the master of intrigues, the cruel dictator, the virtuous knight... Those are some of the main archetypes in CK2 and I don't think less traits means they'll disappear. It will just remove the countless boost traits.
 
The problem with fewer traits is that it leads to only two possible outcomes and both are bad.


I think you missed the idea, if we have 100 available traits and character can get about 5, you won't end up with the same traits.
The number of combination is high (sure not as high as if there was 10 traits on your character) but you'll more likely have a different common set.
For instance, the chance that with 5 traits you get humble, charitable and kind is lower than if you have 10 traits on your character.

Furthermore, if they plan to have trait impact way more the games, from interactions to events, those few traits will really change how you would play your character.
Today, we have tons of traits and get get easily 15 traits and most importantly select the one we want in most cases... and that lead to keeping the same traits over and over while their effect is mostly on stats and not so much (but still a bit) on events/interactions.
 
In regards to a number of traits, I think there's a balance to be had: too many and the traits become largely pointless and overlapping, too few and the traits fail to differentiate characters ("Oh, you're greedy and wroth too?!"). I'd much rather have a nuanced set of traits roughly similar to what CK2 has, striving to cut back on the objectively-good and objectively-bad nature of so many of the traits, but instead making them more "grey" so that there is less "gaming" to get nothing but good traits. Ideally, I'd love to see a lot of the events overhauled, too, so that there is more randomness involved, rather than events such as one for hunting where an option gives you Diligent 100% of the time. I'd much prefer to see the possibility of different outcomes, for instance Diligent 60% of the time, Wroth 20% of the time, Proud 20% of the time, or something.
 
I'm going to strongly disagree with that. More traits is nice to use your imagination (which isn't the same thing as roleplay), but in the end a lot of traits in CK2 were just modifiers. And even when they were not, most of the time they just open a better option in dialogues. There are very few traits that really open new opportunities for roleplay.
I prefer when traits actually matter in the gameplay. Quality over quantity is a good policy.
It makes me think of Stellaris. Lots of civics are just lame modifiers - I would gladly have less civics overall if they all changed something in the playstyle.
In CK2, you had tons of events and traits, but not too often you could see most of the trait having much influence on an event.
In that regard, yes, I agree with you. It's better to have traits which are meaningful to the actual gameplay.
On the other hand, having more traits makes roleplaying more fun.
If a compromise can be made, where we get less traits (but not too little) which would influence events and gameplay more.....then I'm all for it.
 
I think we can all agree that there should be a lot of possible traits. I think there should just not be as many concurrent ones.

The current palette of traits is diverse and flavorful, but due to the way the system works, every character is composed of extremes on every axis. Characters cannot be both humble and proud, but player characters will almost always be one of the two. Instead, you would expect that most characters would be somewhere in between - not particularly humble or nor especially proud. That would make a character for whom pride is a significant personality trait stand out more and enable the trait to be more meaningful to how that person behaves.