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Expanding the list of options:
- Undead - Blight and decay. The pure necromancer experience.
- Infernal Fiends - Fire and brimstone. Glorious chaos. The iconic deal with the devil.
- Accursed Fiend - Ghostfire galore.
- Umbral Demons - Lovecraft-lite. Dark deals, flesh magics, and corruption.
- Ethereal - Lovecraft-brite. Astral beings and cosmic power. For astral wisps, siphoners, serpents, etc.
- Fey - Fairy curses and trickery.
- Celestial - For "good" aligned warlocks. Unleash divine curses upon your enemies.
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Personally I strongly disagree with Fey and Celestials. I'm on the fence on Ethereals. This is the 'dark' caster. If you want a Fey-style character, go with the Ritualist. If you want a Celestial-adjecent character, go with Battlesaint.
In the end though I feel they should focus on Infernal Fiends and Undead. Mainly because the more complicated it is the less likely it probably is that the devs will implement it. But also because I feel that Infernal Fiends are the most common type of summoned creature for dark casters in fantasy, besides undead.
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Hummm but perhaps demonologist can be an other class, in the futur.
With skill different than warlock; like transform hitself to deamon, or i do not know; something else but something very different than just "warlock skills with demons summoner skills".
This is why i respond "why not" on your idea; but it's also a "perhaps this is not a good idea"...
With skill different than warlock; like transform hitself to deamon, or i do not know; something else but something very different than just "warlock skills with demons summoner skills".
This is why i respond "why not" on your idea; but it's also a "perhaps this is not a good idea"...
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I'd personally skinny this down to:
- Undead
- Fiend
- Fey
Umbral Demons and Accursed Fiends are too specific IMO for a Hero Class
Celestial - I think they should throw this into Ritualist as the new Light Elemental and let Ritualist be Plants and Light
Ethereal - I see this as close enough to the storm elemental summon in Elementalist so as not to need to be replicated in Warlock.
Ritualist is not nearly the same as Warlock or Elementalist from a functionality perspective; they don't have any real aggressive abilities and even their 'aggrssive' channel is about healing through their attacks, so that isn't a real alternative IMO.
Who says that Warlock has to be pigeonholed into Chaos and Shadow Affinity themes as the 'dark' caster anyway? Why can't they be the debuff caster and fit into a broader range of themes?
I do agree with you that I do not think all themes are appropriate, like celestial. Nor do I think there should be more than, about, 3 options.
I partly want the celestial warlock option because of D&D Celestial warlocks, but also partly because I want to make a PF2e oracle inspired character revolving around inflicting divine curses upon the unholy.
The fey option is also for leaning into the dark side of fey as opposed to the nature side of fey. Revolving around the archetypical vengeful fey curse or rules-lawyered agreement. I can imagine a blood pact going, "You pledged to protect me with your life. I will take your life force to save myself."
Choose battle saint or ritualist if you want healing and buff abilities. You go warlock if you want to inflict curses or make blood pacts.
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I want a skill to bring back the wisp familiar and conjure other astral creatures.
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I think there are two issues here. What is current and what could be possible in the future. Hero classes have slowly evolved and branched out, but it is easier to satisfy thematic choices by making more options available now until (or if) a more relevant "good caster" becomes available. And it may not. Warlock may traditionally be considered an evil leaning archetype, but hero classes are just templates and a little creativity with the right tools can easily make a warlock skillset into a nature themed status mage with blight damage and entwined thralls. Or any number of similar concepts that aren't strictly demons and undead.
Personally I think that by expanding the option of summons, or introducing a system where you can just pick from a wide variety of T1 basic minions (such as the entwined, etc), it would prove to be either be a good stopgap in the progress toward a more summon themed hero or simply an adequate fleshing out of variety.
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I think there are two issues with your post.
1. I didn't say Warlock was evil, I said it was the 'dark' spellcaster in our roster. So my remark was not about alignment but about theme.
2. The devs have moved away from having spellcasters entirely about function (ritualist = support/summoning, mage = offensive magic) to a system where the spellcasters are about theme (elementalist = elemental, ritualist = nature, warlock = dark, battlesaint = light). That's why the elemtentalist, ritualist and warlock now all have summoning abilities, each for their own theme. Yes, the Warlock has spells that deal Blight damage but all of their names and effects are 'dark' coded (hexes, blood, death and all that). You seem to be suggesting the devs undo their not yet implemented changes of making the spellcasters focused on theme by turning the Warlock into a generalist summoner (i.e. by again focusing on function).
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Good observations, but I fail to see why either of those things is an issue. I'm sure I could follow suit and dissect your reply with things like "I never said that you never said it was evil." After all, I quoted you as saying dark, and said evil myself. But we still both know the class we're referring to regardless. Are you just nitpicking minutia in order to make a clever reply?
You seem to have some interesting insight into the intentions of the devs. But in all seriousness I think it's more about how you understand their intentions to come across and how that perception fits into your own expectations for the game. This is a test build, and things are both subject to change and to feedback before they go live. That's exactly what's going on here.