Originally posted by Sonny
Why?Er.. I mean of course - I'm nice to everyone - everyone who does not have feathers that is.
GRRRRRR... Problems with feathers you have?
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Re: Re: Re: Havard's Iron Fist
War crossbows in 13th century England cost around 6 shillings A thousand bolts cost around 30 shillings and the heads for them were approx. 15 pence a thousand. Good longbows around that time were 1 shilling 6 pence. Crossbowmen were paid double what longbowmen were paid.
War crossbows in 13th century England cost around 6 shillings A thousand bolts cost around 30 shillings and the heads for them were approx. 15 pence a thousand. Good longbows around that time were 1 shilling 6 pence. Crossbowmen were paid double what longbowmen were paid.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Havard's Iron Fist
They were? I always thought that the longbowmen were considered somewhat of an elite force, although still uneducated peasants in the eyes of the nobles they were viewed with some respect.
At least that is what i knew before reading your post.
Originally posted by Sonny
Crossbowmen were paid double what longbowmen were paid.
They were? I always thought that the longbowmen were considered somewhat of an elite force, although still uneducated peasants in the eyes of the nobles they were viewed with some respect.
At least that is what i knew before reading your post.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Havard's Iron Fist
In the last years of Edward I's reign crossbowmen were paid 4 pence a day and regular archers were paid 2 pence.
Originally posted by Lethke
They were? I always thought that the longbowmen were considered somewhat of an elite force, although still uneducated peasants in the eyes of the nobles they were viewed with some respect.
At least that is what i knew before reading your post.
In the last years of Edward I's reign crossbowmen were paid 4 pence a day and regular archers were paid 2 pence.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Havard's Iron Fist
I recall reading about an acheological dig of a grave pit somewhere in Scotland (I forget the battle....but it was one where the English got their asses handed to them on a platter) and they were very quickly able to determine that the bodies were those of longbowmen. Apparently there was significant deformity of the bones on one side of the body where the compaction of joints was quite noticable on the side of the body normally used to hold the bow, and evidence of a great disparity in muscle size on the other....picture Quasi Modo with the hump moved a little to the side. Obviously for this degree of deformity to occur they would have had to practice over very long periods of time.Originally posted by Aetius
But essentially a longbow archer is far more difficult to replace, it took years to train them. You can get anyone to use a crossbow. So a crossbow archer is potentially a better soldier, since a normal soldier could be given a crossbow.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Havard's Iron Fist
I actually have a vision of teh tennis player from the 80s Guilermo? Vilas - incredibly built left arm.
Could the pay for the longbowmen be reflecting the nature of their service rather than their arms?
I actually have a vision of teh tennis player from the 80s Guilermo? Vilas - incredibly built left arm.
Could the pay for the longbowmen be reflecting the nature of their service rather than their arms?
"english crossbowmen paid more than longbowmen"
this could be caused by the abundance of archers in england. and the english crossbowmen were maybe mercenaries. and they (mercenaries) are more expensive than a feudal levy, even if a paid levy, when serving for a longer period.
"english bowmen elite force"
now they are viewed as such, but in medieval times only the aristocratic knight was considered an elite force. not that they necessarily were elite: mountainous region+swiss halberdiers, wagenburg stocked with bohemian hussites etc. to name the more famous european exceptions to the rule
"why only english longbowmen?"
its hard to create a tradition and folk tradition you need to keep a men train with some bow for years during his spare time, since they were peons and not some english janissaries training all day long. i think some french (or Scottish) king tried to introduce the longbow to his subject, but it never picked off. maybe the aristocrats were not thrilled with the prospect of their serfs training with such lethal weapons?
"crusader kings"
but no worries, you can train only certain army branches in earch province so the longbow should be limited to the english only, unless you manage to capture that province in west england.
"question"
will the type of army possible for recrutment change over time in a single province? havent heard much about a longbow in say 1100 in england, but the lack of such troop in later periods will be crucial! maybe a tech. advancement will introduce new unit type possibilities for recruitment in owned provinces?
this could be caused by the abundance of archers in england. and the english crossbowmen were maybe mercenaries. and they (mercenaries) are more expensive than a feudal levy, even if a paid levy, when serving for a longer period.
"english bowmen elite force"
now they are viewed as such, but in medieval times only the aristocratic knight was considered an elite force. not that they necessarily were elite: mountainous region+swiss halberdiers, wagenburg stocked with bohemian hussites etc. to name the more famous european exceptions to the rule
"why only english longbowmen?"
its hard to create a tradition and folk tradition you need to keep a men train with some bow for years during his spare time, since they were peons and not some english janissaries training all day long. i think some french (or Scottish) king tried to introduce the longbow to his subject, but it never picked off. maybe the aristocrats were not thrilled with the prospect of their serfs training with such lethal weapons?
"crusader kings"
but no worries, you can train only certain army branches in earch province so the longbow should be limited to the english only, unless you manage to capture that province in west england.
"question"
will the type of army possible for recrutment change over time in a single province? havent heard much about a longbow in say 1100 in england, but the lack of such troop in later periods will be crucial! maybe a tech. advancement will introduce new unit type possibilities for recruitment in owned provinces?
Okay... I have been off line for some time now so I don't know what all the talk about "Iron fist" is about. Please enlighten me.
There was some Mr. Uglyduck who was been accused of telling lies and causing some heartattacks...
Fortunately Havard came in to safe this forum from spamming (look at the stickies)...
Fortunately Havard came in to safe this forum from spamming (look at the stickies)...
Originally posted by Murmurandus
There was some Mr. Uglyduck who was been accused of telling lies and causing some heartattacks...
Fortunately Havard came in to safe this forum from spamming (look at the stickies)...
And after that there was little to no activity on the forum. So I tried to get some discussion started about CK.
Let's remember that Demetrios is named after one of the warrior saints. He's right up there with St. George in any Orthodox church, actually a little bit more popular than St. George.
So, go forth with your Iron Fist, oh champion of Orthdoxy.
Alexandre
IMHO, crossbows, particularly heavy ones, are much more expensive to manufacture than even exquisite longbows. You need real specialists to make the whole mechanics work right, and these mechanics also required cast iron, which was quite expensive (although how expensive of course depends on the actual time period
)And yes, from what I know lots of crossbowmen were mercenaries, esp. Italian ones, although I must admit know very little about the situation in England during the middel ages.
BTW, Vulture, what happened to your "GFF", and what did it mean anyway?
I think there were many Gascon crossbowmen on the mercenary market. One of the accusations against Raymond of Toulouse before the Albigensian crusades ws that he used Gascon crossbowmen agains other Christians, something strictly outlawed by the Pope (but in many cases easily ignored...). I would think these Gascons came from English-controlled Aquitaine?Originally posted by Tambourmajor
IMHO, crossbows, particularly heavy ones, are much more expensive to manufacture than even exquisite longbows. You need real specialists to make the whole mechanics work right, and these mechanics also required cast iron, which was quite expensive (although how expensive of course depends on the actual time period
And yes, from what I know lots of crossbowmen were mercenaries, esp. Italian ones, although I must admit know very little about the situation in England during the middel ages.
Oh... It's a nasty story....
OK you revealed my lacking knowledge
Were most crossbowmen mercenaries or did the crossbows-for-hire simply happen to be the most renowned or capable?
Oh... It's a nasty story....
Please tell me!
That there was a lot of Gascon x-bowmen around is a surprise to me. I thought the Genoese was the most plentiful x-bow merchs back in the days of the hundred years war. Being a merchant republic gold was more important than god.
See e.g. here (best I could find in a hurry) about forces mustered by Edward I of England against the welsh: According to the payroll for January 1283, the Gascon total was 210 horse and 1,313 foot crossbowmen. There were also Gascon crossbowmen with him on the Scotish campaign.Originally posted by Idiotboy
That there was a lot of Gascon x-bowmen around is a surprise to me. I thought the Genoese was the most plentiful x-bow merchs back in the days of the hundred years war. Being a merchant republic gold was more important than god.
Hmm indeed. These gascon merchs were they a function of the king being duke of Aquitaine or were they used widely all over the place?
The Gascons were not mercenaries, just part of the kingdom. The Genoese were probably the most famous crossbow mercenaries in the CK time. The French used them frequently (and then ran them down at Crecy and Agincourt because they were in the way of their charge at Crecy as they were themselves retreating from the English longbowmen).
It is kinda strange that the Genoese used the crossbow since their neighbors the Venetians were selling yew longbow staves to the English (the English had to get special permission from the Doge).