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I'm a bit curious about the Civil war feature. A Japanese civil war was fought between 1467 to 1590. There were around 280 warlords fighting each other with three sides to start of with (Yamana+Ouchi, Hosokawa and the "neutrals" like Uetsugi, Takeda, Imagawa and Shimazu). Around 1500 it got a bit more complex with Ouchi fighting the Hosokawa, Hojo fighting the Uetsugi, Takeda fighting the Uetsugi and Hojo, the Oda fighting Imagawa and so on. How do model something like that? Do you set up each clan as separate countries or do simply assign one government and the rest rebels?
It is a bit if a headache when trying to put together a list of leaders...
 
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Originally posted by Aetius
I'm a bit curious about the Civil war feature. A Japanese civil war was fought between 1467 to 1590. There were around 280 warlords fighting each other with three sides to start of with (Yamana+Ouchi, Hosokawa and the "neutrals" like Uetsugi, Takeda, Imagawa and Shimazu). Around 1500 it got a bit more complex with Ouchi fighting the Hosokawa, Hojo fighting the Uetsugi, Takeda fighting the Uetsugi and Hojo, the Oda fighting Imagawa and so on. How do model something like that? Do you set up each clan as separate countries or do simply assign one government and the rest rebels?
It is a bit if a headache when trying to put together a list of leaders...

ahh! The latter.:)

/Greven
 
That sounds like the best solution for gameplay!
 
This thread belongs in this forum, since so many of its dwellers actually help out and have plenty of sources. If this thread would be in EU2 forum we would have more than 100 posts a day arguing over features for EU2. That is not the purpose of this thread, the purpose is to get information and not debate how Japanese civil war will be portrayed better. I shall delete such posts.
 
Originally posted by Greven


ahh! The latter.:)

/Greven
Ok now the really stupid question:
is it possible to assign leaders to the rebels that start in a certain province? Rebels have fixed stats and it would be really nice if they could be augmented with a decent leader to make them extra tenacious.
Is there any point in sending monarch, leader and event files for separate warlord factions or not? The "files" can perhaps activate in case of a choice of which faction to support by the player, the "resting" factions leader would thereby become "rebels".
I suppose this problem would occur in any with a substantial civil war, Russia and China being the other examples that spring to mind.
 
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Originally posted by Aetius

Ok now the really stupid question:
is it possible to assign leaders to the rebels that start in a certain province? Rebels have fixed stats and it would be really nice if they could be augmented with a decent leader to make them extra tenacious.
Is there any point in sending monarch, leader and event files for separate warlord factions or not? The "files" can perhaps activate in case of a choice of which faction to support by the player, the "resting" factions leader would thereby become "rebels".
I suppose this problem would occur in any with a substantial civil war, Russia and China being the other examples that spring to mind.

Not stupid... Important question... yes indeed...:)
The answer is yes you can.:) The rebel leader will be put into a 'rebel leader-file' and the event will trigger the leader in a certain province.

/Greven
 
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Originally posted by Greven


Not stupid... Important question... yes indeed...:)
The answer is yes you can.:) The rebel leader will be put into a 'rebel leader-file' and the event will trigger the leader in a certain province.
/Greven
Excellent...

Ok to redeem my place on the thread:
Site for Karaman http://www.enfal.de/starih40.htm
Site for Dulkadir http://www.enfal.de/starih33.htm
Site for Candar http://www.enfal.de/starih32.htm

My knowledge of Turkish is NIL so the sites should be read by someone who actually understands what is written. My best guess of the list of rulers is as follows (Bey means Gentleman in Turkish so perhaps bey isn't a part of their names)

Rulers for Karaman:
Mehmed Bey (1418-1420)
Ali Bey (1420-1421)
Mehmed Bey (1421-1423) again
Ali Bey (1423-1424) again
Ibrahim Bey (1424-1464)
Ishak Bey (1464-1466)
Pir Ahmed (1466-1474)
Kasim Bey??? (1474-1493??)
Mahmud Bey??? (1493?-1497??)

Rulers for Dulkadir:
Nasireddin Mehmed (1399-1442)
Süleyman (1442-1454)
Melik Arslan (1454-1465)
Sah Budak (1465-1467)
Sehsuvar (1467-1472)
Sah Budak (1472-1480) again
Alaüddevle Bozkurt (1480-1515)
Ali (1515-1522)

Rulers for Candar:
Isfendiyar Bey (1392-1439)
Ibrahim Bey (1439-1443)
Ismail Bey (1443-1461)
Kizil Ahmed Bey (1461)
 
Originally posted by Gen. Suvorov
I then volunteer to put all the monarch/leader files into the original/working state.
Could you please provide us with a recap on which country's monarchs remain to be found?
Is it just the following:
Ak Koyunlu
Kara Koyunlu
Tekke
 
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History of Ak Koyunlu (in Turkish) http://www.enfal.de/starih49.htm

Monarchs of Ak Koyunlu with dates based on guesswork

Osman Bey (1403-1435)
Ali Bey (1435-1438)
Hamza Bey (1438-1444)
Cihangir Mirza (1444-1469)
Uzun Hasan 1469-1478)
Halil Bey (1478-1480)
Yakub Bey (1480-1490)
Baysungur Bey (1490-1493)
Rüstem Bey (1493-1496)
Ahmed Bey (1496-1503)

History of Kara Koyunlu (in Turkish) http://www.enfal.de/starih50.htm
Monarchs of Kara Koyunlu with dates

Kara Yusuf (1389-1420)
Iskender (1420-1438)
Cihan Sah (1439-1467)
Hasan Ali (1467-1468)

I'm going to try and convince a couple Turkish friends to read through the pages to confirm the dates, finally burning my bridges as a person with a life :)

I believe this means only Tekke remains :)
 
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Read my post on Tekke a few pages back...

I don't think it will work very well in EU2.
 
Timelines for American Tribes

Here are some timelines for a few of the American Tribes, in hopes that some of these events might be useful for design purposes:


Cherokee Timeline
Tsalagi is proper name for Cherokee.
1540 First European Contact, first exposure to smallpox
1540 Approx 200 Tsalagi villages and towns
1566 Contact with M. Pardo (French)
1629 English trade with Tsalagi
1660 Tsalagi permit Shawnee to settle in South Carolina
1673 Abraham Wood fails to set up trade monopoly with Tsalagi
1673 Tsalagi raid Spanish settlements in Florida
1674 Population is approx. 50,000
1680 Firearms widespread among Tsalagi
1684 Treaty signed between Tsalagi and South Carolina colony
1689 Tsalagi ally with English against Spanish
1690 Spanish smelting operation in Tsalagi lands shuts down
1692 Shawnee destroy large Tsalagi village
1706 Tsalagi and Iroquois sign peace
1713 Tsalagi serve with South Carolina army
1714 Peace with Iroquois breaks down
1715 Tsalagi and Chickasaw defeat Shawnee
1721 Smallpox epidemic
1721 Boundary established between English and Tsalagi lands
1738 Smallpox epidemic
1743 Tsalagi promise exclusive trade with English
1750 North Carolina urges South Carolina to stop using Indians as slaves
1753 Smallpox epidemic
1754 Tsalagi permit construction of British forts on their territory
1760 "Cherokee War" starts between British and Tsalagi
1762 "Cherokee War" ends
1763 Tsalagi ally with English against French
1763 Keetowah band of Tsalagi migrates to northern Arkansas and
southeastern Missouri
1768 Tsalagi cede territory later known as West Virginia, eastern
Tennessee, and Eastern Kentucky, to British
1769 War against Chickasaw ends in status quo pro ante
1774 Tsalagi sell Shawnee lands they don't own to British
1775 Tsalagi begin aggressive war of conquest against Chickasaw
1775 Tsalagi sell Shawnee lands they don't own to British
1777 Tsalagi cede all their remaining land in Carolinas to American rebels
1799 Chickamauga and Keetowah Tsalagi bands migrate to Arkansas
1813 Tsalagi ally with USA against the Creek tribe
1817 Reservation for Keetowah Tsalagi set up in Arkansas
1817 Tsalagi in the east replace clan government with elected tribal
council
1819 First Tsalagi settlement in Texas
1821 Tsalagi syllabary invented



Iroquois Timeline
Proper name of the "Iroquois" is "Haudenosaunee". "Iroquois" means "rattlesnake" and is an insult
Original Members: Cayuga, Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, and Seneca tribes
1450 Onondaga tribe emerges
1451 Haudenosaunee League formed (based on timing of solar eclipse
mentioned in legends)
1570 Haudenosaunee League formed (alternate possible date)
1600 Total Haudenosaunee population around 25000 (does not count subject
peoples)
1600 Haudenosaunee finish driving algonquin from Adirondacks
1609 Samuel de Champlain allies with Huron against Haudenosaunee
1610 Haudenosaunee abandon body armor in warfare
1610 Haudenosaunee acquire steel weapons and guns from Dutch
1615 Dutch and Mohawk ally against the Susquehannock
1618 Dutch broker peace in region around Albany
1624 Dutch build Fort Orange
1624 Mohawk begin war against Mahican, Dutch end up remaining neutral
1628 Mahicans driven east of Hudson River and forced to share trade profits
with Haudenosaunee, essentially vassalized and forced into military
alliance
1628 Dutch form trade alliance with Mohawks
1634 Smallpox
1637 Haudenosaunee drive Algonkin north
1642 Haudenosaunee demand and get tribute from the Munsee Lenape on lower
Hudson river
1642 Mission of St Marie established at Teatontaloga
1643 Wenro tribe of westen New York conquered by Haudenosaunee
1643 Haudenosaunee ally with Dutch against Lenape in New Jersey and New
York
1643 Fr. Jogues murdered by Haudenosaunee
1645 Haudenosaunee wrest control of wampum trade on western Long Island
from Lenape
1645 Peace between French and Haudenosaunee signed
1647 Haudenosaunee start war upon Hurons but keep French from supporting
their Huron allies
1651 Northern Huron driven to Wisconsin. Nipissing tribe overrun and
conquered by Haudenosaunee
1651 Haudenosaunee conquer Neutrals
1653 Seneca attack Wyandot and Potawatomi near Green Bay
1655 thousands of non-Haudenosaunees were incorporated as subject peoples
1656 Erie Indians conquered by Haudenosaunee
1658 Haudenosaunee kill Jesuit ambassador, ending peace with French
1660 Haudenosaunee government becomes more centralized to deal with
Europeans
1660 Abnaki (in Maine) join war with Sokoki, Pennacook, Pocumtuc, and
Montagnais against Haudenosaunee.
1662 Mohawks attack Mahicans
1652 Haudenosaunee attack Wyandot in Wisconsin
1653 Haudenosaunee permit French missionaries into their lands to minister
to Wyandot they had "adopted".
1653 Haudenosaunee attack Wyandot in Wisconsin
1658 Haudenosaunee expel French missionaries.
1664 Munsee Lenape of Esopus Valley conquered by Haudenosaunee
1664 Mahicans driven out of Hudson Valley
1664 British sieze New Amsterdam
1664 Non-aggression pact signed between British and Haudenosaunee
1665 French soldiers invade Haudenosaunee homeland, burn two villages
1665 French expeditionary force (400 men) fight their way to Green Bay
1667 Caughnawaga form as a group of Roman Catholics from Haudenosaunee
tribes and separate from them to live near Montreal
1667 Potawatomi, Fox, Sauk, and Mascouten driven out of lower Michigan
1667 Shawnee, Kickapoo, and part of the Miami driven out of Ohio and
Indiana
1667 Haudenosaunee agree to general peace with French and all French allies
1667 Haudenosaunee settle southern Ontario
1670 Haudenosaunee succeed in driving most New England tribes into French
protection
1672 Mahicans give unconditional surrender to Haudenosaunee
1673 New Amsterdam permanently transferred to British Control
1675 Haudenosaunee conquer Susquehannock
1676 Haudenosaunee force Wampanoag back into Massachusetts at British
request
1677 Haudenosaunee take control of Mahican affairs
1677 Haudenosaunee take control of Lenape affairs and people around
Delaware valley
1677 Mahicans essentially annexed
1677 Beginning of greater centralization of Haudenosaunee government
1680 LaSalle founds Fort Crevecoeur, becomes major center of Algonquin
1680 Haudenosaunee invade Illinois to "defend" their claims upon Ohio,
Indiana, and lower Michigan
1682 Henri Tonti builds Fort St. Louis on upper (northern) Illinois river
1687 French attack Seneca and Onondaga
1688 War between France and England
1689 Haudenosaunee attack Lachine (near Montreal)
1690 Smallpox
1691 Mohawk population reduced to around 800
1696 Haudenosaunee in west forced back out of Indiana and Michigan, able to
hold eastern Ohio and Pennsylvania
1697 Treaty of Ryswick ends war between French and English
1701 General peace between Haudenosaunee and their enemies
1701 Haudenosaunee remain neutral in Queen Anne's War
1712 French Indian allies fall into war with each other
1722 Tuscarora join the alliance
1728 By this point, 80% of the beaver was coming through the Haudenosaunee
from tribes supposedly allied to the French
1737 French Indian allies end intercenine warfare
1742 Haudenosaunee exert their control over Lenape by forcing them to cede
Delaware to the British
1747 Caughnawaga (Catholic Haudenosaunee allied with the French) declare
war on British until 1748)
1748 Haudenosaunee experiment with limited independence (essentially
vassalization) for formerly subject tribes
1749 Haudenosaunee repudiate French claims upon Ohio
1752 Haudenosaunee permit a British fort to be built at the site of
Pittsburgh
1755 Lenape defy Haudenosaunee and enter into war against the British
1755 Seneca, Cayuga, and Onondaga ally with French in war against British
1755 Mohawk and Oneida ally with British in war against French
1755 Haudenosaunee on both sides refused to fight each other under any
circumstances, whatsoever.
1758 English conclude treaty of Easton and pay Lenape for lands in New
Jersey and England renounces all claim to lands west of the
Appalachians that had been ceded by the Haudenosaunee
1760 Jeffrey Amherst (hated all Indians) ends gifts to chiefs and raises
all trade prices
1763 Seneca join Pontiac's Rebellion
1763 Thomas Gage replaces Amherst, restores gifts and lowers prices
1763 British forbid further colonization west of Appalachians, measure met
with great hostility by British colonists
1765 Pontiac's war winds down
1765 Sir William Johnson emerges as _de facto_ leader of the Haudenosaunee
1768 Total Haudenosaunee population around 12000 (does not count subject
peoples)
1768 Haudenosaunee cede all of Ohio Valley and Western Pennsylvania to
British
1776 Haudenosaunee recognize USA
1776 Haudenosaunee declare neutrality and order Shawnee to stop attacking
Americans. They are ignored
1776 Joseph Brant (a sachem with English education) leads Mohawk warriors
for the British
1777 Joseph Brant wins over the Onondaga, Seneca, and Cayuga to join the
Mohawks on the British side of the war against the USA rebels.
1777 The Oneida ally with the USA
1777 The Council Fire is extinguished
1777 August 6th, battle of Oriskany, Haudenosaunee kill Haudenosaunee in
war. End of the Great Peace among the Five Nations
1779 Many Haudenosaunee settle in Ontario
1779 Beginning of the "Sullivan Campaign" (USA army), which destroyed the
Haudenosaunee heartland. Oneida scouts assisted.
1779 Brant leads punitive raids against the Oneida and destroys their
villages.
1784 New York Haudenosaunee cede Ohio to the USA.
1784 Fort Stanwix treaty effectively cedes all of New York to USA.
Haudenosaunee power essentially gone.
1785 Joseph Brant leads 2000 followers into Canada after the Treaty of
Paris.
1785 Oneida sign over nearly 6 million acres to New York in exchange for a
reservation.
1786 New York Haudenosaunee call for council with Ohio tribes. No
representatives of these "vassals" appear.
1788 Onondaga sign over much of their land to New York for a reservation
1792 Ohio tribes formally repudiate New York Haudenosaunee authority
1793 British refuse to aid Ohio tribes against USA after Battle of Fallen
Timbers, Canadian Haudenosaunee lose even a semblance of authority in
the west.
1796 Caughnawaga sign treaty of New York City, relinquishing all claims to
land in New York except for 36 square miles on the New York-Quebec
border.
1797 All Mohawk lands in New York formally ceded to the USA
1799 Ganiodayo's Vision, beginning of the Longhouse Religion
1803 Canadian Haudenosaunee no longer included in meetings of New York
Haudenosaunee.
1807 Cayuga sell New York holdings and move to Ohio
1807 Cayuga lose last of their New York lands, many move to Ohio (known as
Seneca of Sandusky)
1822 Onondaga sell most of their reservation to New York
1823 Seneca give last of their land to New York


Huron Timeline
The proper name of the "Hurons" is "Wendat" or "Wyandot". "Huron" means "ruffian" and is an insult.
1400 Earliest forebear of Wyandot Confederacy forms from alliance of
Attignawantan and Attigneenongnahac, capital at Ossossane
1535 Population around 30,000 to 45,000
1535 Cartier discovers a Wyandot village with population of 3,000
1560 Arendahronen join Wyandot
1570 Tahonaenrat join Wyandot
1603 Village discovered by Cartier has been abandoned
1609 First formal conference between French and Wyandot
1609 Wyandot and French sign trade agreement
1614 Wyandot and French make formal alliance
1615 French estimate of Wyandot Confederacy population at 20,000 to 30,000
1615 First French missionaries arrive among Wyandot
1625 Jesuits first arrive among Wyandot
1629 Quebec surrenders to a British fleet. Wyandot lose trade with French
(and all of Europe)
1632 Trade with Europe resumes
1634 Jesuits build mission at Ihonatiria
1635 Smallpox
1635 Seneca inflict major defeat upon Wyandot
1637 Jesuits build mission at Ossossane
1639 Jesuits build mission at Ste. Marie
1640 about 600 Wenro join the Wyandot as refugees from the Iroquois
1642 Montreal founded
1643 The Atonontrataronon join the Wyandot, fleeing from the Iroquois in
the east.
1647 The Arendaronon settlements destroyed by Iroquois
1649 Hurons abandon their capital at Ossossane, fleeing west.
1651 Fleeing Wyandot reach Green Bay (Wisconsin)
1652 Iroquois attack Wyandot in Wisconsin
1653 Iroquois permit French missionaries into their lands to minister to
Wyandot they had "adopted".
1653 Iroquois attack Wyandot in Wisconsin
1658 Iroquois expel French missionaries.
1658 Wyandot leave Green Bay and move inland and settle on Mississippi
river
1659 Large attempt on part of Iroquois to stop Wyandot fur flotillas to
Montreal fails
1661 Dakota force Wyandot to move to the south short of Lake Superior
1664 French government permits citizens to travel on Great Lakes, direct
contact between New France and Wyandot reestablished.
1672 Wyandot move east, away from the Dakota and enter lower Michigan
1688 Wyandot enter alliance with France and other tribes against Iroquois,
begin to push them back.
1696 Great Lakes fur trade suspended by France, French trading posts
closed.
1701 Western Wyandot Refugees settle in Ohio Valley between Detroit and
Cleveland, known as Wyandot
1701 End of Beaver Wars against the Iroquois
1701 Fort Ponchartrian built on site of modern Detroit by French as trading
post.
1704 Wyandot move to Ponchartrian
1710 Unfortunately, the French had asked all their allies to move there,
overcrowding the area. General war breaks out among French allied
Indian tribes. Wyandot ally with France
1715 Fur Trade resumes with France
1728 Wyandot trade extensively with Iroquois, who have higher-quality
British goods.
1730 Some Wyandot move to south shore of Lake Erie
1740 Wyandot give permission to Shawnee and Lenape to settle in western
Ohio
1740 Orontony establishes a Wyandot village in Ohio and trades openly with
the British
1748 Fearing retaliation for burning French trading posts, Orontony's
Wyandot move to Indiana.
1751 Smallpox
1756 Wyandot ally with French against Britain in French and Indian War
1757 Smallpox
1763 Wyandot join Pontiac's Rebellion
1764 Wyandot make peace with British
1777 Wyandot ally with Britain against rebels
1785 Treaty of Fort McIntosh cedes claims in Ohio to USA, later repudiated
1790 Wyandot in British territory near Detroit forced to cede their lands
east of Detroit to Britain
1794 Battle of Fallen Timbers. British refuse to aid their "allies"
against USA forces.
1795 Treaty of Fort Greenville, Wyandot cede all of Ohio except for region
around Sandusky
1806 Wyandot begin to work with Tecumseh and Tenskwatawa
1807 Much of Southeastern Michigan surrendered to USA
1808 Wyandot permit a road to be build from Detroit to Columbus, Ohio
1809 Chief Leatherlips assassinated by Tecumseh supporter
1810 Two women near Sandusky burned as "witches" by followers of
Tenskwatawa (see "Shawnee Timeline")
1810 Tenskwatawa denounced as a witch by Wyandot council at Brownstone
1812 Wyandot remain neutral in war between USA and Britain except for
Detroit Wyandot, who join Tecumseh with the British
1813 Wyandot pull out of war.
1817 Wyandot surrender all Ohio lands to USA and get two "reserves", of 144
square miles and one square mile



Shawnee Timeline
Proper name is "Shawano", "Shawnee" is a mispronunciation.
1665 Shawano driven out of Ohio, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania by
Iroquois, they move to Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, and Tennessee
1677 Some Shawano find shelter among Lenape in Pennsylvania
1689 Shawano leave Illinois to join other Shawano in Tennessee
1692 More Shawano find shelter among Lenape in Pennsylvania
1694 Shawano in Pennsylvania permit themselves to be subjugated to Iroquois
1707 Shawano expelled from South Carolina, many emigrated to join Shawano
in Tennessee
1715 Short war between Shawano and Cherokee/Chickasaw alliance ends in
defeat for Shawano
1729 Shawano abandon Tennessee and move north to Kentucky
1730 Shawano begin to return to Ohio, West Virginia, and Pennsylvania,
forced to agree to Iroquois rulership.
1744 Iroquois order all tribes to vacate Ohio--all tribes ignore this order
1748 Shawano granted limited independence from Iroquois under a "half-king"
1752 Shawano request Iroquois aid at holding back French advancement in
Ohio, Iroquois request British aid and grant Britain permission to
build Fort Pitt
1754 Shawano are neutrals in the French and Indian War
1754 Shawano raid North Carolina frontier
1755 Shawano delegates hanged simply for being Indians in the wrong place.
Shawano/Lenape allaiance goes to war against the British
1758 All Shawano probably living north of Ohio river.
1759 Shawano and Lenape in west make peace (status quo pro ante) with
British
1761 Approx 300 British prisoners refuse repatriation and choose to live
with Shawano
1763 Shawano participate in Pontiac's Rebellion
1763 British at Fort Pitt infect Shawano with smallpox, Cherokee catch
smallpox from Shawano
1768 Treaty of Fort Stanwix, Iroquois cede Ohio to British. Tribes actually
living in Ohio ignore this.
1770 Shawano ally with western Lenape and Mingo
1773 Shawano leave Ohio and settle in southeast Missouri
1774 British colonists attack Shawnee trading party near Wheeling
1774 War breaks out between British and alliance of Shawano and Mingo
1774 Shawano relinquish claims to Kentucky and Tennessee, war ends
1774 Hatawekela Shawano leave Ohio and move to northern Alabama
1777 Shawano join British in war against American rebels
1777 Daniel Boone captured by Shawano, who refuse to turn him over to the
British but instead adopt him!
1778 Americans begin campaign of massacre against their own allies, the
Lenape, many Lenape begin to ally with Shawano against Americans
1779 Shawano leave Ohio and settle in southeast Missouri
1780 Many Shawano emigrate to Spanish Louisiana
1782 In response to yet another massacre by Americans, Lenape abandon their
alliance with the Americans and join other tribes against them.
1783 Tribes in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan (including the
Shawano) form the Northwestern Alliance against the Americans.
1785 Iroquois attempt to convene a conference of Ohio tribes, they are
ignored.
1789 Treaty establishing Muskingum river as boundary between USA and Indian
territory. Shawano refuse to sign.
1790 Northwestern Alliance warriors defeat USA military advances into Ohio
1792 Wabash, Miami, and Kickapoo tribes forced out of Northwestern Alliance
by USA
1793 Hatawekela Shawano leave Missouri and settle in Spanish Louisiana
1794 Gen. Mad Anthony Wayne begins USA advance into Ohio and Indiana,
builds Fort Wayne on the upper Wabash river.
1794 Jay Treaty signed. British finally abandon forts in Indiana,
Illinois, and Michigan
1794 Treaty of Greenville signed. Shawano in Ohio leave to settle in east-
central Indiana.
1794 Tecumseh first appears at the signing of the Treaty of Greenville
1795 War between Indians and Americans in Ohio Valley ends
1801 Northwestern Alliance disintegrates
1802 Shawano have crushing victory over Kaskaskia tribe
1802 Tecumseh builds a village at the abandoned site of Fort Greenville
1805 Lalawethika undergoes his vision and becomes Tenskwatawa (called "The
Prophet" by Americans)
1806 Tenskwatawa's followers (under his supervision), burn several
Christian Lenape and Wyandot as witches. Lenape and Wyandot turn
against Tenskwatawa's message
1808 Tecumseh gets promise of British support against Americans
1808 Tecumseh abandons Greenville after not getting support from Ohio
Shawano. Establishes his capital at Prophetstown (still can be found
on some modern Indiana maps)
1809 Tecumseh's followers assassinate a Wyandot chief. Wyandot denounce
Tenskwatawa as a witch.
1811 Hostilities break out between USA and alliance of Shawano, Main Poche,
and Potawatomi. Fighting quickly ends.
1811 Battle of Tippecanoe destroys Tenskwatawa's credibility and alliance
assembled by Tecumseh.
1812 Shawano remain neutral in War of 1812
1812 Tecumseh captures Detroit for the British. American commander
(General Hull) later court-martialed and executed.
1813 Detroit surrendered to Americans
1813 Tecumseh killed at Battle of the Thames in Canada
1815 Peace of Indian Springs. Shawano who had joined with British return to
Ohio.
1815 Many Missouri Shawano and Lenape move to Texas.
1817 Shawano cede all remaining lands in Ohio in exchange three
reservations totalling 173 square miles.



Lenape Timeline
Note: The Lenape are traditionally viewed as the "Grandfather Tribe", ancestors of all speakers of Algonkin language family tribes (anything in the Eastearn USA except for the Iroquois). Before the arrival of the Europeans, they had a great deal of status and importance not related to military might but to ancient tradition. The Europeans messed all this up, especially the Dutch and English preference for arming their ancient enemies, the Iroquoians.
1524 Giovanni da Verranzano contacts the Lenape (who call the Europeans the
"Swannuken"--salt water people). European slave raids upon the Lenape
start soon thereafter.
1609 Henry Hudson encounters the Lenape (and they don't like him very
much).
1615 Mohawk begin to take away Lenape hunting territory.
1622 Powhatan tribe taken in by Lenape as refugees
1628 Several Munsee Lenape villages conquered by Mohawk
1630 Beginning of war between Susquehannock and Lenape in Delaware Valley
1631 Dutch colonists kill a Lenape sachem
1633 Smallpox
1635 End of war between Susquehannock and Lenape in Delaware Valley.
Delaware Valley Lenape subjugated by Susquehannock.
1638 Swedes arrive in Lenape territory
1640 Beginning of Pig War between Dutch and Raritan Lenape. Minor
hostilities creep back and forth with no major battles. "War" simply
peters out.
1643 Dutch Governor Kieft massacres Wecquaesgeek refugees, igniting the
Wappinger War. 20 Tribes end up allying against the Dutch.
1645 Dutch forces and English mercenaries force a peace treaty in which
Wappinger Lenape are vassalized to the Mohawk and the Metoac Lenape
are vassalized to the Mahican.
1648 New Netherlands Dutch population reaches around 2,000
1655 Dutch capture New Sweden
1655 Lenape make peace with Mohawk
1657 Smallpox
1658 Beginning of 20 years of on-and-off warfare between Esopus Lenape and
the Dutch and between Esopus Lenape and the Iroquois.
1660 New Netherlands Dutch population reaches around 10,000
1661 Smallpox
1666 British Puritans found Newark colony in New Jersey
1675 Peace conference between Lenape and British
1676 Munsee Lenape subjugated by Iroquois
1677 Lenape in Delaware Valley subjugated by Iroquois
1682 Chief Tammanend sells site of Philadelphia to the English
1718 Lenape essentially annexed by Iroquois
1730 Munsee Lenape begin to move to Pennsylvania's Wyoming Valley
1737 "Walking Treaty" forgery perpetrated. Pennsylvania claims an extension
that takes up the entire Lehigh Valley
1740 Lenape unify into a single tribe in Ohio
1740 Moravian missionaries arrive among Munsee
1742 Iroquois silence Lenape protestation of "Walking Treaty"
1745 British colonists murder several of their Munsee "allies". Munsee
move out of New York for a year.
1748 Lenape in Ohio granted limited independence from Iroquois under a
"half-king"
1751 Lenape split into three groups by this time: One along Ohio River, one
in western Pennsylvania, and refugees in the northern New
Jersey/southern New York mountains.
1751 Smallpox
1752 Ohio Lenape join Shawano in asking for Iroquois aid against French
1754 Lenape join other Ohio tribes in declaring complete independence from
Iroquois. Aside from sabre rattling, ther is no Iroquois response.
1754 Ohio Lenape neutral in French and Indian War
1755 Pennsylvanian British murder Lenape delegates. Ohio Lenape declare
war on British, destroying 2500 colonists by 1758 in Pennsylvania,
Maryland, and Virginia. Eastern Lenape join their Ohio brothers.
1755 Munsee and Susquehanna Lenape begin raids throughout New Jersey and
New York
1756 Another British mass murder. Munsee abandon Hudson Valley completely
and either join the Mohawk and Oneida or move to Pennsylvania.
1756 Some eastern Lenape make peace with the British
1758 Treaty of Easton. Lenape reimbursed for lands siezed in New Jersey.
Pennsylvania renounces all claims west of the Appalacian mountains.
Lenape war against British ends.
1761 Hundreds of white prisoners refuse to leave Lenape to rejoin British
settlements.
1763 Lenape take part in Pontiac's Rebellion
1763 British deliberately infect Lenape with Smallpox
1763 British begin to settle Wilkes-Barre region
1764 End of Pontiac's Rebellion
1770 Lenape begin to settle in Indiana
1772 Moravian Christian Lenape settle in Ohio
1775 Traditional Lenape accept Christian Lenape villages as equal members.
1776 Lenape Chief Koquethagachton addresses Continental Congress in
Philadelphia
1778 Lenape and USA sign treaty at Fort Pitt (first treaty between USA and
Indians). This treaty promised a Lenape representative in the US
Congress! Lenape agree to ally with USA.
1778 Lenape escort murdered by USA military "allies".
1779 Munsee fleeing USA "allies" in Ohio seek safety among Seneca. Many
are killed by "ally" general John Sullivan (USA) and flee to Ontario
permanently.
1781 Munsee chief attempting to negotiate a peace between Lenape and USA is
killed by a US militiaman WHILE NEGOTIATING WITH THAT MAN'S OWN
COMMANDER!!!!
1781 Only Christian Lenape do not enter active warfare against USA.
1781 British arrest all Christian Lenape they find in Ohio.
1781 USA militia arrest an entire village of Christian Lenape and slaughter
all men, women, and children by beating them to death with mallets.
1790 Surviving Christian Lenape flee to Ontario permanently, establising
Moraviantown
1793 Land grant made by Spain in Louisiana to the Lenape (625 square miles)
1795 Treaty of Greenville signed. Lenape abandon claims to nearly all of Ohio.
1795 Many Munsee Lenape relocate to Indiana, near site of modern-day
"Muncie".
1803 Lenape cede part of their southern Indiana land to USA.
1806 Lenape followers of Tenskwatawa kill Christian Lenape as witches.
1807 Lenape leave Louisiana for Texas
1809 Treaty of Fort Wayne, 3,000,000 acres of southern Indiana and Illinois
ceded to USA.
1809 Lenape refuse to join Tecumseh's alliance.
1813 Moraviantown burnt to the ground by US soldiers
1813 Lenape moved by USA troops from Indiana to Piqua, Ohio
1814 Lenape return to Indiana and are joined by a group of New York
(Stockbridge) Lenape
1816 Indiana becomes a US State
1818 St. Marys Treaty. Lenape cede their last Indiana lands to the USA and
move west of the Mississipi. Stockbridge Lenape remain until 1834.
1822 New York Lenape sell remaining lands to New York and move to Green Bay
onto a reservation.


Comanche timeline
Nemene is proper name for Comanche
1500 Nemene Entered northern Great Plains from Canada
1700 Nemene separate from the Shoshone in Wyoming and move south
1706 Nemene known to Spanish in New Mexico
1719 First recorded raids of Nemene upon Spanish settlements (for horses)
1725 Nemene force Apaches (Apaches allied to Spanish) out of Arkansas
1735 Nemene had enough horses to stop using dogs for transport
1740 Nemene acquire their first firearms (from the French)
1743 Nemene reach Texas
1746 Nemene raid Pecos in force
1746 War begins between Nemene and Osage/Pawnee alliance
1747 French broker peace between Nemene and Wichitas
1749 Ute/Nemene alliance breaks down
1750 Nemene abandon armor and "knightly" sized shields
1750 Utes ally with Spanish against Nemene
1750 Nemene raid Pecos in force
1750 Nemene and Pawnee call a truce
1751 Nemene/Pawnee alliance defeats Osage and drive them out of Kansas
1757 Spanish mission destroyed by Nemene
1760 Nemene raid Taos in force
1761 Outbreak of of full-fledged war between Spanish and Nemene
1768 Spanish attempt to militarily break Nemene fails
1773 Nemene raid Pecos in force
1774 Tide turns in Spanish/Nemene war
1775 Nemene raid Pecos in force
1780 Smallpox epidemic rages through Nemene
1786 Lasting peace treaty (to the 1870s) signed between Spanish and Nemene
1789 Nemene/Spanish army fights Apaches in Texas
1790 Nemene population may be at around 20,000
1805 Nemene make permanent (past-1820) alliance with Kiowa
1810 Breakaway Nemene chief resumes raids upon Spanish
1821 Mexico takes over Spanish territories in region


Timelines distilled from histories found at http://www.tolatsga.org/Compacts.html
 
I would think that Quebec in the list of possible nations doesn't refer to a tribe, but to the colony, a possible revolter in the later game...
 
silly question... with all those minors now in the game. can you for instance 'call out' a name change. if flanders controls all the flemish people it could be renamed to 'Netherlands'

or if the king of arogon unites spain he can call out the unity of spain. A temporal moral boost would be nice.

I have seen that now we have ethnicity in EU2 so that would be a great future
 
SE Asia

I can supply a monarch lists for Annam, Tonkin, Khmer, Burma and Arrakan which I will in the morning. But I have a few problems with the possible new countries list.

1. First and more signifigant

The two Vietnamese states should be Tonkin, capital of Hanoi, (the north) and Annam, capital of Hue (The South) Dai Viet is a much older term for a unified viet state centered around Hanoi.

Annam was theoretically a vassal of of Tonkin but was in every sense of the word independent from the 14th century, and they frequently fought each other in a long running series of wars. It was Annam (ruled by the Nguyen dynasty) that conquered the far south.

In 1773 the Tay-son rebellion broke out in Annam and because of an invasion by Tonkin they were able to seize the capital causing the Nguyen's to flee into exile. Annam under the Tay-sons then conquered Tonkin so that when the Nguyens were restored in 1800 they now ruled a united Vietnam from their capital of Hue.

2. Khmer and Cambodia are the samething, but if the Cham state in modern Saigon area is intended maybe Champa would be an alternative

3. Taungu is the name of a Burmese dynasty that tried to unify burma in the 15th and 16th century and while possibly valid as a state a far better choice would be a Mon state in the south around modern day Rangoon and Pegu. I will try and find a name for it other than Mon State.

4. final is more political.

Burma. It should not be known as Myanmar since Myanmar is the name of the modern state, which historically was always known as Burma. Myanmar is while not a completely new invention an innovation by the current military regime which like Zaire will probably not survive its downfall. Almost every force aside from the government in the country even when explicitly anti ethnic Burmese continues to use the older name.
 
Indonesia

This is probably too late to be of use but how about a couple of insular states in addittion to Aceh in the East Indies. Notable Majapahit and possibly Demak on Java, Macassar in Sulawesi, and Tindore in the Moluccas

None of these states were mulsim in 1420 all were Hindu but by 1520 or so all of Java except the eastern end was converted to Islam, but Hinduism was still presentthere until the dutch arrived in 1595. Tindore was converted in in the early 1500s, and Maklassar as late as 1603

I know this is a lot of tiny states so I would suggest two. A state called Java (which would also be ideal for the revolter) not ruling the whole island but at least several provinces and maybe Bali which would have an event converting Java but not Bali (which should remain Hindu) gradually to Islam around 1510-20 along with some disorder and Tindore which would rule Tindore and north sulawesi (sorry can't remember the name of the EU province)

If there is any interest I would be more than happy to provide king lists and a couple of Javanese generals
 
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Southeast Asian sultanates

ok someone mentioned the sultanates like Malakka....

on a related note, any possible consideration for the following?

1) Sultanate of Jolo

2) Majapahit Empire (earlier called the Sri Vijaya empire)

The Jolo Sultanate was small but rich. It was obviously a Moslem sultanate similar to the sultanate of Malakka and Brunei. Jolo sultanate is in the southern Mindanao provinces of the Philippines as well as nearby Malaysian Sabah.

Historical records show that part of their wealth came from... ummm supporting pirates that raided local islands ;)

The Majapahit Empire (aka Empire of Sri Vijaya in the century before) existed between the 13th to 16th century. Sri Vijaya was originally an Indian dynasty, whose legendary founder Sri Vijaya was credited with expelling the Mongol invaders from the island of Java. In later years, it would transform into the Majapahit empire, the capital in Java, which became more of a maritime empire that dominated the islands and trade of Indonesia, Malaysia, Bali, Borneo, etc. By the 14th to 15th century, the empire reluctantly shifted to Islam...they really did not have a choice, since many Arab traders had established a huge influence on their neighbors, the many Muslim sultanates that started appearing in the area of the spice islands.

And this religious conversion is part of what brought down the empire. It was this empire's shift towards Islam that is one of the reasons for the Islamic presence in that region today. Oh, and by the 16th century, the Majapahit empire had more or less collapsed.

They just could not handle all the changes with the coming of Islam, and so the empire became fragmented and its population fragmented its allegiance to many of the smaller sultanates that spread all over the southeast asian region. The sultanate of Brunei (still the world's richest man?) is a perfect example of such a sultanate.

By the time the Portuguese had arrived to carve up the carcass of the decayed Majapahit empire (16th century), the Portuguese had a far easier time trading with and domitating the smaller sultanates rather than dealing with a single powerful cohesive empire that dominated and governed that region.