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Are you arguing with me just to argue?
I don't think so, but it's happened before without me noticing. :eek:o
Working in half-words, you mean. You must be a Windows guy.
Eww. I stay away from Windows as much as possible.

My background has been ... idiosyncratic. I started on Commodore machines, then mainframes at college (1980s), then Amigas, and now Macs. Anyway, the way it's always been to me was byte, times 2 is word, times 2 is double word. I know 'word' properly depends on architecture, but that's what I learned years ago. :wacko:

Sadly, things are getting a little CISCy again due to applications' inability to scale as well as hoped to many cores. Since they can't push clock rate much at all and adding more cores isn't helping in the consumer sector, they've basically only get ISA extensions for accelerating certain specialized types of CPU-intensive operations to improve IPC. This is more a limitation of the way programmers for the consumer market know how to program (i.e., not scalably in terms of lockless multithreading), as I see it most commonly, as there is still far more performance to be had from proper paradigms to enable exploitation of thread-level parallelism.
Hell, I'm still trying to really get OOP...

So, anyway, Hi: I'm ziji. I may not be who you expected me to be. Likewise. I like working on systems coding and am heavily experienced with such things, although I don't get to actually do it much currently due to my present role in HIP and being in a bit of a weird spot in terms of unexpected turns in life. I keep hoping to meet somebody in this community that shares those interests and qualifications, though, not the least of which because I might be able to put them to work upon projects shaping how people game, but also because I'm passionate about both grand strategy / grand modding and deep coding, and unfortunately, the two seem to so rarely intersect.
Hi, I'm jursamaj. Glad to meet you. Sent you a pm about a different issue a couple days ago.

I'm not that big on the systems stuff. Truth be told, my MIS degree has largely been wasted (as dad, who paid for it, would surely agree). I have yet to make any money out of programming, but the Civ series & CK2 have given me aspirations to someday write a game that does things others don't, or brings together bits from others (past the game engine, it's all a big mod). Right now I'm cutting my teeth on an Objective-C project to make playing CK2 better.
 
I don't think so, but it's happened before without me noticing. :eek:o

Well met, then.

Eww. I stay away from Windows as much as possible.

My background has been ... idiosyncratic. I started on Commodore machines, then mainframes at college (1980s), then Amigas, and now Macs.
See, now, I'm starting to develop a geek attraction... stop while you're ahead. ;)

Anyway, the way it's always been to me was byte, times 2 is word, times 2 is double word. I know 'word' properly depends on architecture, but that's what I learned years ago. :wacko:
Well, that's the difference between systems/libraries/people that typedef'd WORD to a 16-bit unit back when CPU words were actually 16-bit (i.e., Windows 3.1 and older). Then we have the classic double-word, DWORD (a 32-bit unit), extension that really became the norm for obvious reasons, yet the typedefs weren't feasible to actually change (despite that being the point of them) due to some extremely poor foresight upon the part of those who initially coined the typedefs.

I'm not entirely sure on the true etymology behind the fixed-size-concept of words/double-words, etc., but of course as you admit, the proper (and most useful, when talking about efficiency) definition of a word is architecture-dependent. In general, when somebody says 'word,' it is synonymous with a field that's sizeof(void*) in the C standard, which is to say either 4 or 8 bytes wide (32- vs. 64-bit), depending upon how lucky of a programmer you are. It is whatever-sized unit a CPU's ISA natively addresses and operates upon logic units of memory. This definition actually matters a lot, if you're ever talking about performance topics such as we were, CPU cache alignment, etc.

Hell, I'm still trying to really get OOP...

Hehe. You wouldn't be the only old-schooler. Luckily for me, I'm not as old-school as you, so the first real programming language I ever learned was C++ directly from Bjarne Stroustroup's C++: The Programming Language [starting] when I was 12 years old. Thus, templated C++ with proper OOP was drilled into me at the same time as direct memory management/access, etc., and though I can and sometimes prefer to write C for some kinds of things, I still find it very hard to live without a dash of runtime polymorphism or templating. And I'm sure as hell much more comfortable with languages that do static typing and static binding, although I have a secret crush on the ML family of functional programming languages (which are statically typed but only implicitly).

Hi, I'm jursamaj. Glad to meet you. Sent you a pm about a different issue a couple days ago.
Ah, yeah, I've been meaning to get to my PMs. Truth be told, I wish Paradox's board had an option to just expose your email address so that people could simply email you if preferred. Not only does my PM inbox suffer from chronic bursts that fill it up and causes bounces, but I just hate the interface for general 1-on-1 communication. You were the one that was asking about a complex mod dependency problem, IIRC? I'll make sure to get to that.

[...] but the Civ series & CK2 have given me aspirations to someday write a game that does things others don't, or brings together bits from others (past the game engine, it's all a big mod). Right now I'm cutting my teeth on an Objective-C project to make playing CK2 better.
Me too. In fact, about once a week I get fed-up with modding and resolve to create a new open source grand strategy game/engine, purely for the love, that fills in the gaps mechanics- and extensibility-wise that Paradox and others have left behind. Then I sadly let go of the idea an hour later after prattling on and on to anybody within hearing distance about what I'd do differently, knowing that it's not realistic (I have zero art skills, for one, although I've got plenty of free time and a great head on my shoulders for that kind of thing).

Feel free to email me anytime at zijistark@gmail.com. That'll always get a quick response. I'm always interested in connecting with people like you that are also Paradoxians, let alone HIP users.
 
If my liege is the Pope is it possible to create a faction to attempt to get him to allow external inheritance? The only faction that I can create is the Independence faction.
 
If my liege is the Pope is it possible to create a faction to attempt to get him to allow external inheritance? The only faction that I can create is the Independence faction.

Right offhand that requires 'is_feudal=yes' and the Pope is not feudal.

Another reason you can't form such a faction: The Autonomy Faction in PB takes on that role and replaces the traditional individual factions, so even if the AF has formed, you'd have to bend it to your will. [Am curious if the AF is forming inside the Papacy, though. Never thought of that case. It probably requires is_feudal=yes on the title to form the AF. I mean, that's what I'd include in the allow = { ... } clause by default, so that's probably what Meneth did by default too. That would rightly exclude king-tier merchant republics too.]

Then I guess I have to go for independence and hope that someone will accept my fealty before I get destroyed! :D

If you can beat the Pope in an independence war, you can probably hold your own in Italy. Unless maybe if you're on the Southern side of Latium, bordering the de Hauteville nest. Italy's great for small starts, because nobody has de jure control over a damn thing, especially not the HRE (if the Italians and Burgundians haven't all split-off into independents already), and thus you don't face any automatic threats. Yet, you can take the unsuspecting AIs out... one by one. Too bad Central Italy's de jure kingdom (Patrimonium of St. Peter, or whatever) is essentially [intentionally] unformable (theocracy only, possibly even always = no now-- just there due to CKII's de jure kingdom requirement, else that map mode CTDs).

There are two main downsides to my usual early-independence, small-start-only practice that I've noticed in all recent attempts to actually play CKII: it takes way too long before I get to play with an Autonomy Faction-- either as a vassal or preferably as a liege (like to see what I can still get away with when I've got a character with borderline bad traits), and depending, it can also take way too long to get an active crown law title affecting me so that I can actually control my units' commanders-- a really big deal to me.

I need to learn how to have fun starting medium (relatively large duke) or big (mega-duke, king, or even an emperor). [In fact, I think I've only played the Holy Roman Emperor, intentionally-- have gotten unwillingly elected plenty of times, in one game in all my experience.] In general, I also have played very few games within the HRE since my first playing experiences in vanilla. This makes character selection pretty rough when you generally stick to the Catholic world.

<---- needs to branch-out and overthrow the Pope like Finarfin. Or actually spend more time in the East: I just have a harder time relating to the steppes and such. As for Muslims, this may sound incredibly ignorant, but if I can't reliably pronounce my own dynasty name, let alone my sons', I just have trouble role-playing it.

Call me crazy (especially as such a gung-ho member of Historical Immersion Project team), but I'd sometimes really just like a realistic-looking random map with realistically-named random realms and realistically-named / -cultured / coherent random characters. If it meant that I could get 10,000 more viable options for political goals/achievements, interesting new characters, and whole new realm configurations about which to write new figurative stories, it'd be totally worth dropping out regular history and into a new one.

The main problem with such a thing is a lack of preconceived flavorful associations with all-new realms; for example, I've over-played the French into the ground, because I just generally appreciate their history. With the randomly-generated realm of, say, 'Raviqa,' I'd actually have to make up my own story from scratch. Maybe it would be enough if the world were fleshed-out in a pseudo-history by the creator of the [automatically-generated but then hand-tweaked] random world? Would it be enough for other people? I don't know.

Thus, I've never followed-through with my rather in-depth thoughts over the last year regarding writing code to fully rewrite history (and generate a fully realistic-looking and strategically-interesting map), despite how refreshing it could be. It'd be an intense amount of work (some of the problems to solve in automatically generating such a thing are Officially Hard), and I've no idea if people would bite-- unless I wrote an epic historical fantasy fiction series about it first like GRRM. ;)

Sorry, total tangent, but overthrowing the Pope made me feel like giving props to the potential value of alt-histories for a moment.
 
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Mac Install Issues

For anyone who feels the Mac instructions are a bit broken... update Python. New version came out literally 2 days ago (which is probably why I couldn't find it or reference to it or anything) and it works fine. 3.3.5. Open main.py with IDLE. and run it by file menu or by hitting F5. No idea how anyone installed it before March 9, 2014, but it's doable now.

running OSX 10.9.2 and it's just silly.

I'll start by saying there's nothing that actually opens the .py file you gave us. Skipping past that, googling gave me a workaround by using Terminal (console). I run it through there and get a syntax error - it refuses to do anything.

Code:
python 
Python 2.7.5 (default, Aug 25 2013, 00:04:04) 
[GCC 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 5.0 (clang-500.0.68)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> /Users/HomeFolder/Documents/Paradox\ Interactive/Crusader\ Kings\ II/mod/HIP/main.py 
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    /Users/HomeFolder/Documents/Paradox\ Interactive/Crusader\ Kings\ II/mod/HIP/main.py 
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

I'd try to make up some files/folders and put them in manually, but there aren't any .mod files anywhere, so I'm at a bit of a loss.
 
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For anyone who feels the Mac instructions are a bit broken... update Python. New version came out literally 2 days ago (which is probably why I couldn't find it or reference to it or anything) and it works fine. 3.3.5. Open main.py with IDLE. and run it by file menu or by hitting F5. No idea how anyone installed it before March 9, 2014, but it's doable now.

running OSX 10.9.2 and it's just silly.

I'll start by saying there's nothing that actually opens the .py file you gave us. Skipping past that, googling gave me a workaround by using Terminal (console). I run it through there and get a syntax error - it refuses to do anything.

Code:
python 
Python 2.7.5 (default, Aug 25 2013, 00:04:04) 
[GCC 4.2.1 Compatible Apple LLVM 5.0 (clang-500.0.68)] on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> /Users/HomeFolder/Documents/Paradox\ Interactive/Crusader\ Kings\ II/mod/HIP/main.py 
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    /Users/HomeFolder/Documents/Paradox\ Interactive/Crusader\ Kings\ II/mod/HIP/main.py 
    ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

I'd try to make up some files/folders and put them in manually, but there aren't any .mod files anywhere, so I'm at a bit of a loss.

EDIT:

I'm sorry. I may have been a bit harsh on you. While I don't appreciate some of the comments you made and [still] definitely don't appreciate you making blanket statements directing other users to use an alternate, incompatible, and unsupported means of getting the installer to run on Mac OS X when the bundled HIP readme.txt contains easy, succinct instructions that work out of the box if tried, I was totally unaware at the time of posting my response to you that the OP of this thread hadn't yet been updated to include the Mac OS X install instructions that are in the HIP readme.txt found in the download archive. Due to forum limitations, only one person (and Paradox moderators) can update that post, and I'm not that person, although I am the guy that spent a great deal of time making OS X / Linux installs work smoothly out of the box (amongst a host of other installer improvements over prior HIP releases) and wrote the bundled instructions for OS X / Linux. The person who can update the OP of this thread will be consequently updating the instructions listed there, which are presently Windows-centric, in about 6 hours.

Consequently, please accept my apologies for my harsh tone. I worked very hard specifically so that users like yourself would be able to enjoy HIP on OS X glitch-free, and it's anathema to the reason I did that to harshly criticize your inability to follow the instructions when you simply overlooked the bundled HIP readme.txt. You should have seen those instructions in the same post as the download link too, and now that issue will be resolved as soon as the proper individual is available to adapt them to the OP in, as mentioned, 4-6 hours.

Original post:

I'm not sure what instructions you're looking at, because all of your description / quoted code of what you did, including your blanket recommendation of what all our other users do, is definitely not the same approach the instructions clearly specify in the 'HIP readme.txt' file included in the download archive. Your system-bundled Python-- not the Python from python.org (though that works, in a different way, and incompatibly so)-- was supposed to be used from Terminal, and you were supposed to execute one, single command, which fit upon a single line and required zero modification from the instructions.

The instructions clearly, succinctly explained how to accomplish this with a single copy/paste directly into the Terminal window, followed by hitting ENTER.

You, instead, ran Python in interactive "learning" mode (also known as 'calculator mode') and tried to execute the installer with a custom path by inputting it into the interactive Python language console directly, when Python was expecting you to enter valid Python language syntax, as if you were inputting a Python program by hand. Hence, the error you received initially. You then apparently tried a bunch of other things that you shouldn't, because the HIP installer and package a is a dynamic mod compiler-- not a mod directly.

If you had followed the instructions in 'HIP Readme.txt', the installer would've run without incident. It's somewhat of a happy coincidence for you that despite your upgrade to a theoretically incompatible version of Python (the 3.x series is not compatible with the 2.x series, the latter of which is mandatory-installed on every OS X machine) that the installer still was able to execute without error. That configuration hasn't been tested on OS X, mainly because it involves several unnecessary, relatively convoluted steps added to the process for no gain. Additionally, the fact that you were able to get it to run correctly in the end with Python 3.3 does not guarantee that others who, e.g., make different mod selections or that are installing future versions in your way instead of the instructed way will not encounter incompatibility errors.

I'm glad that you got it working in the end, regardless, but please be careful what you broadcast as the One True Faith to our users for us. We usually respond to user install problems within 15-60 minutes maximum, 24x7. You definitely were in a hurry to get it installed (don't blame you) and thus went on to try a bunch of confusing things rather than give the README a fresh start again, if you did in the first place. That's fine, but it is definitely no grounds to make those sweeping claims and confuse folks.

Sorry to be harsh. Enjoy.

To everybody else on OS X:
Please read and follow the short instructions in the 'HIP Readme.txt' that's extracted directly into your mod folder along with the installer itself in the first step that follows download (extraction/decompression of the .7z file). It works. When you reach the second step further, which was where things went wrong here, just be sure to exactly copy/paste the line of text indicated without any modifications, and you'll be instantly up and running.
 
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If you can beat the Pope in an independence war, you can probably hold your own in Italy. Unless maybe if you're on the Southern side of Latium, bordering the de Hauteville nest. Italy's great for small starts, because nobody has de jure control over a damn thing, especially not the HRE (if the Italians and Burgundians haven't all split-off into independents already), and thus you don't face any automatic threats.

I'm actually in a highly alternate reality of my own devising. I chose the Catholic duchy of Galatia but then turned on Shattered whatever it is and ended up as a single county Catholic surrounded by counties that eventually blobbed into a huge Ecumenical Patriarchate. I'm literally surrounded 2 to 3 provinces deep. I pledged fealty to the Pope just so they couldn't crush me as easily. Since military has not been much of an option my plan is to marry my way into titles. I succeeded a couple of times but a couple of bad Popes kept stealing my new lands and excommunicating me. I've set up 2 or 3 more inheritances for my family but the problem is that every time one of my children inherits something they then can't inherit my title due to the Pope not allowing external inheritance. I'm seeing my only option as abandoning the Pope and pledging fealty to someone that's not quite so picky. Of course, I probably won't even be able to get enough strength to gain independence so I might just be screwed.
 
I'm sorry. I'm not sure what instructions you're looking at, because all of your description / quoted code of what you did, including your blanket recommendation of what all our other users do, is definitely not the same approach the instructions clearly specify in the 'HIP readme.txt' file included in the download archive. Your system-bundled Python-- not the Python from python.org (though that works, in a different way, and incompatibly so)-- was supposed to be used from Terminal, and you were supposed to execute one, single command, which fit upon a single line and required zero modification from the instructions.

The instructions clearly, succinctly explained how to accomplish this with a single copy/paste directly into the Terminal window, followed by hitting ENTER.

We must be operating on a different set of instructions, because mine look like this:
Code:
Historical Immersion Project installation instructions:
1. Unzip *everything* in the HIP.7z archive into your mod folder
2. Run HIP.exe if on Windows. If on Mac or Linux, run main.py instead
3. Answer the questions the command line asks. Default is "yes" for every question
4. Enable HIP through the launcher and start the game. Optionally delete python27.dll, HIP.exe, main.py, and HIP.7z

very thorough, yes.

If you had followed the instructions in 'HIP Readme.txt', the installer would've run without incident.

I did. I input python followed by a space and hit return, then input the script. This is following google's instructions, however, since there weren't any for how to run main.py in the readme.


Sorry to be harsh. Enjoy.

To everybody else on OS X:
Please read and follow the short instructions in the 'HIP Readme.txt' that's extracted directly into your mod folder along with the installer itself in the first step that follows download (extraction/decompression of the .7z file). It works.

It didn't. Just trying to be helpful by providing a solution.
 
We must be operating on a different set of instructions, because mine look like this:
Code:
Historical Immersion Project installation instructions:
1. Unzip *everything* in the HIP.7z archive into your mod folder
2. Run HIP.exe if on Windows. If on Mac or Linux, run main.py instead
3. Answer the questions the command line asks. Default is "yes" for every question
4. Enable HIP through the launcher and start the game. Optionally delete python27.dll, HIP.exe, main.py, and HIP.7z

--snipped stuff made irrelevant by first part--

You're looking at the Windows instructions. Also, you clearly didn't read what I wrote. If you can't seem to find the bundled instructions in the file HIP Readme.txt to which I was explicitly referring repeatedly in my post, then I will just refer you to the updated-a-couple-days-ago OP of this Download thread, directly below where you just copy/pasted the Windows instructions. [You can tell easily that they're Windows instructions since they involve running a .EXE in step (2) after unzipping, and generally, since you're on a Mac, it's safe to assume that you might have to do something differently-- or at least deal with some different type of file or something-- than the Windows process, which is generally the default for any cross-platform gaming-related application.]

So, yeah, that second, obvious way to read the proper instructions:

Yes, look directly below what you copy/pasted from the OP, and you'll see a prominent Mac (OS X) Instructions: header followed by a click-for-spoiler button. Click on that button. The full content of the OS X portion of the HIP Readme.txt will be immediately expanded inline in the OP, including several [unnecessary] troubleshooting steps at the end to take if things don't work-out so well. So that's a second, immediately-accessible way to get access to all the instructional information you could possibly need.

If we could mail you a printed hard-copy, we would, but we're reasonably running out of obvious ways for you to get the proper instructions. Google doesn't know how to provide install instructions for HIP to you (other than presumably redirecting you back to this thread's OP, but I don't know how often the forums are search-indexed).

The installation process combined with the proper instructions just simply work out of the box. I'm yet to hear of anyone actually even needing the included troubleshooting steps at any point. I haven't even received any queries (despite seeing plenty of people reporting successful Mac OS X installs), and my own personal email address is included there for one-on-one support if you need it.
 
If you can't seem to find the bundled instructions in the file HIP Readme.txt to which I was explicitly referring repeatedly in my post
Sorry, that bit's my fault; the current download includes the old instructions modified slightly, sans manual instructions. That'll be fixed whenever the next reupload is.
So don't bite the poor guy's head off :p

The instructions in the OP should be entirely up to date though.
 
With all installed but VIET Immersion, seems like Steppe terrain does not exist. All the provinces that should be steppe have the "hills" terrain type. Like always, the ruler of the Canary Islands is Maghreb Arabic instead having the local culture. Mari, Vepsian, etc. cultures are not capitalized and appears as 'mari', 'vepsian', etc.

Amalfi not playable.
 
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With all installed but VIET Immersion, seems like Steppe terrain does not exist. All the provinces that should be steppe have the "hills" terrain type. Like always, the ruler of the Canary Islands is Maghreb Arabic instead having the local culture. Mari, Vepsian, etc. cultures are not capitalized and appears as 'mari', 'vepsian', etc.

Amalfi not playable.

Steppe Bug already fixed for next Version...:ninja: