Historical Immersion Project - Download/FAQ

[AnaxXiphos]

Hi, I really like the personal combat (whichever part of the overall project that comes from), but I have some suggestions to make it a bit more immersive.

The personal combat part of HIP comes from the New Duel Engine, which is an outside mod integrated into Project Balance. Because of that status, nobody on the HIP team actually controls it, so normally we wouldn't be changing or adding anything to it. But you've got good timing, because I recently started on writing a new version of the Duel Engine specifically for HIP...

I noticed that if the player chooses to flee from combat, there is a chance to gain the coward trait. I like that, but I don't remember seeing the percentage listed (kind of like how education choices give you a percentage chance to get each trait in each decision that's available.) So if that's not already throughout the personal combat, that would be nice.

The percentage chance to gain Craven should be displayed in both the New Duel Engine and the new HIP Duel Engine. I'll make a note to check whether it displays or not when I do my next round of testing.

That would also fit in with some sort of tactic choice. Maybe something along the lines of retreat, hunker down (defend), parry (counter-attack), attack, and charge ("wild attack"). Or some combo of those. So if someone charged wildly against a parry, the character who chooses parry would have a pretty high chance to win (kill, wound, knock down for capture) while a character who chose say retreat would have a high chance to lose (die, get maimed, get captured). And then each of those decisions would affect the percentages, so for example a wild attack / charge would be higher in chance to kill / maim rather than capture, while a normal attack would have a better chance of knocking the person down to capture them but not kill or maim them.

I agree that any version of the Duel Engine would benefit from offering the player more choice in strategy, but I'm not sure I'd support the kind of "Rock, Paper, Scissors" system you're suggesting. The problem with such an approach is that without meaningful information on which to base your choices it boils down to pure randomness. The system as it stands already has an element of randomness in it, and I'm not comfortable adding more. That said, if I do manage to figure out a way to implement tactics (or something akin) in a way which amounts to a meaningful choice, I'll certainly do so.

I'd also like to see the chance to gain coward lower, but then augmented by troop morale effects. For example, if you win the personal combat, you should have a small chance to gain brave, also have a chance to increase your personal combat ability (especially if you're up against someone with higher skill level), and a chance to increase the battling army's morale. It could be a standard amount like 5-10%, or better yet could be tied to the opponent's skill or prestige. So, if I were a skill level 1 combat going up against a 4 level combat that was also famous due to high prestige (e.g., Ivar the Boneless), I'd have a pretty decent chance at gaining brave for even taking the fight, increasing combat if I simply survive or somehow win (maybe I luck out and pick the right tactic) even with lower skill, and have a chance to increase the troops morale for surviving or winning. Of course there would be the opposite: if you don't take the fight you could still become coward, if you don't take on fights or don't even go out in the army as a flank leader you'll eventually lose some skill (should take several opportunities to lose skill), and if you get knocked down (or worse captured or worse killed) there should be a morale hit to the troops in that battle.

Both morale effects and combat trait advancement (essentially improving a character's combat skill) are already in both versions of the Duel Engine. And the chance to pick up Craven for refusing a fight is actually scaled based on your opponent's skill level. As for the other stuff: I'm already planning on reducing the chance to pick up Craven in the new version; likewise, I'm also considering adding the possibility of gaining Brave (or at least losing Craven) by choosing to fight.

Finally, I'd like to see the chance to accept a fight and go at each other, but then every 1-3 "goes" you'd get a chance to retreat and give up. Doing so would be a much less chance of getting coward and morale hit. This way you could try your hand at a bit of combat in case you want to improve your skill, but if things are going poorly or you change your mind you can try to get back out. Of course, retreating against an opponent who charges wildly will leave a higher chance to get hit or captured than against an opponent who chooses to defend or parry.

As the system currently works, giving a chance to run away doesn't make much sense. If the odds of a negative outcome when attempting to run are lower than usual, everyone will always run. If the odds of a negative outcome are the same or higher, there would be no point in ever taking the option. So under the current system the only way I might consider adding something like this would be in the form of giving the character who is winning the chance to disengage if they don't want to risk fighting another round.

 

[Meteor88]

http://prntscr.com/3rl0b8

What does this error mean?

 

[Neutral Havoc]

Hello, i seem to have an issue with my games playing this mod: When i start a game, and play for about 3 months, it starts to get really laggy when the game is running, but when i pause the game it stops lagging completely. So i quit the game and enter it again to see if it fixes it, but after 3 months it starts again. Any ideas about what this could be?

 

[unmerged(494400)]

Hi

I have installed on my Mac. It works fine with all my DLC turned off. But will not load the game with it turned on.

Which DLC needs to be off and which can be on?

 

[beermugcarl]

Could be just the latest patch. I have all the DLCs but still getting CTDs, not too frequent but enough to let me give a break to game.

also, could be a thing with fractured world?

 

[Ecnahc]

Will there be an update this weekend, the 14th?

 

[Meneth]

Will there be an update this weekend, the 14th?

No.

 

[Zatara]

Out of curiosity, what is the main focus on the HIP mod right now?

Some nice work on this mod has to be said, well done!

 

[AndreiTLC]

is this compatible with the EU IV converter ?If yes,how ?

 

[Nyrael]

is this compatible with the EU IV converter ?If yes,how ?

IIRC, HIP comes with its own integrated converter mod (and can be used on vanilla too, giving a much better result than the vanilla one). However, the person in charge of it has been away for a while so it may not work atm.

 

[Jaecke]

I've been playing CK2 v2.1.4 with HIP v2014-05-24 with most options including VIET immersion and immensely enjoying things. Rare CTD (gets a weird C++ exit condition) and more commonly CTD's on loading a save-game (I imagine you've heard that before) but it's been workable.

Sorta. If he wants to come here and give you the full explanation, that's his prerogative (and not mine) but afaik nothing serious happened. Regardless, it's fairly known cybr has been sick for over 6 months now and that does take a toll, so please just be patient with him (well, and with me, tough my reasons are different).

Sorry to hear cybr's not been well. Had health issues meself last year that are still taking a toll on me.


Anyhoo, I was wondering if there was a list of hotfixes to the current 2014-05-24 version of HIP, as I've have 2 that I've put in (both in VIET Immersion, pagan_group not having "hostile_within_group = yes" and the Khitan CB typo) and was wondering if there were more?

 

[Dr.Feel]

New to this mod with a quick couple questions; Why does a declaration of war, even against other religions require you to have 50 piety? Is that just a check? Or do you lose that piety? Secondly, I take it the pagan conquest CB is a bug?

 

[earthInvader]

Does HIP work with the most recent beta patch?

 

[AndreiTLC]

nop

 

[robbx213]

AnaxXiphos, thanks so much for reading and considering.

Thanks for double-checking that the precentage chances for things to happen (gain/lose trait, change skill, etc.) are displayed.

I understand not wanting to introduce a rock paper scissors system just for the sake of it. There is a good amount of randomness and fun already. The only other thing I can think of is maybe have existing traits affect combat. So if the person is an Aggressive Leader, maybe they match up poorly against someone who is Patient, but match up well against someone who is Craven? Wounded or Maimed would have a disadvantage against anyone. Maybe even Possessed or Lunatic enter the fight no matter what? Or Proud would have less opportunities to surrender or disengage or flee? Anyway, thanks for thinking about it.

I didn't realize morale effects were already in place, thank you for confirming.

When I was talking about a chance to run away, I wasn't clear. One idea would be that the battle overcomes your personal fight; that the surrounding melee causes you to get separated and ends the personal combat. No gains or losses. But the only reason I can think to include this is 'realism' and in case you take a fight you don't want just to avoid Craven you can hope for this null. Second idea you got - give the "winner" a chance to disengage. There's already the option to let your opponent up without killing them after you've knocked them down, in the hopes they surrender. I guess the only reason I can think for this option is again 'realism' (you're winning the combat but your army is losing the battle so you wanna gtfo) and if you're much lower skill and want to take a knockdown as a chance to high-tail it rather than attempt the kill or risk letting them up to fight more. I think the counter to 'everyone will always run' is they have to weigh that against their desire to gain traits, improve skill, possibly sway the battle, or capture/kill a certain individual. Anywho, this part was not all that important.

Thanks a ton for reading the ideas and commenting!

 

[robbx213]

New to this mod with a quick couple questions; Why does a declaration of war, even against other religions require you to have 50 piety? Is that just a check? Or do you lose that piety? Secondly, I take it the pagan conquest CB is a bug?

I believe it's just a check, not a cost. My SWAG for the reason - If you had too little piety you wouldn't get to 'represent' the religion and declare a religious war? Also, maybe, if you don't have piety, you shouldn't declare a religious war where others of your religion would join because you're not very pious?

It's interesting, in this mod you also have to have a small amount of prestige to hold a feast (e.g., to improve vassal opinion). And it seems you can "schedule" the feast anytime of year, it will trigger when the proper time of year rolls around. In Vanilla you had to wait until the right time to click the button in the Intrigue events menu, be damned if you get sidetracked and forget. Or be damned if you "schedule" the feast and then go start a war before it happens, I've done that one too.

If by pagan conquest you mean the pagans subjugating other pagans, that's not a bug. AFAIK, vanilla Old Gods lets a pagan ruler declare subjugation once against any other pagan (neighbor only?), unlimited if you have the "become king" ambition. CK2 Wiki Subjugation And if it's "religious conquest", vanilla OG also allowed a pagan county conquest, even to the point a Norse could conquest any coastal county CK2 Wiki County Conquest I think the big difference in HIP is a longer cool down between religious wars. I've been palying quite a bit of HIP in 867 "England" and it does not feel buggy. Actually, I got frustrated when one group of Norse converted to Catholic and I couldn't religious reconquest them anymore, and I could only reconquest Jorvik (which actually went King of England thus preventing me becoming King and having de jure CB against those converted Catholic Norse), and then there was such a small border between me and Jorvik that reconquest progress was VERY slow.

 

[Meneth]

Does HIP work with the most recent beta patch?

Probably, but we can't guarantee it. Working with the beta patches isn't a priority as many of them have been highly unstable.

 

[Finarfin]

If the installer doesn't do the auto-install of CPR due to the inability to find the directory thingy, are there any special directions for installing CPR from the archive? Can you just copy everything from the CPR module into the HIP directory?

 

[zijistark]

The installer never refuses to install CPR for you unless it knows for a fact that you don't have all the required DLCs (it lists the ones you're missing in that case). Not having the required DLCs results in instantaneous crashing, so that is not supported, and I can't imagine why you'd want to force that.

Maybe you should check out a recent download if it's not listing the missing DLCs? You may have an old one. Or you may not be correctly interpreting the installer's informational messages or something, but the current version will never prevent any user that's not known to be guaranteed to be unable to run CPR due to missing DLCs from installing it.

If the installer doesn't do the auto-install of CPR due to the inability to find the directory thingy, are there any special directions for installing CPR from the archive? Can you just copy everything from the CPR module into the HIP directory?

 

[Finarfin]

The installer never refuses to install CPR for you unless it knows for a fact that you don't have all the required DLCs (it lists the ones you're missing in that case). Not having the required DLCs results in instantaneous crashing, so that is not supported, and I can't imagine why you'd want to force that.

Maybe you should check out a recent download if it's not listing the missing DLCs? You may have an old one. Or you may not be correctly interpreting the installer's informational messages or something, but the current version will never prevent any user that's not known to be guaranteed to be unable to run CPR due to missing DLCs from installing it.

I have all DLCs. I'm installing the HIP version from May 24th. Is there a newer one? When I install it it gives me the "whoa, can't find directory" message about CPR.