HOI4 Dev Diary - Reflections and Romania

[Gwydion5]

Was it the right choice? Up to you to decide. I think so.

Thank you for this response. I really appreciate you elaborating more about the situation. There is more I would like to say, but at this point I feel constructive conversation would not be possible publicly. I will say this, had you known about the AI / Axis imbalance before releasing 1.3.3, it would have been nice for you to have stated up front about it before leaving for Dev Con. It kind of sucks to think that I put 50-60 hours testing 1.3.3. issues you were aware of on release. Not that you are responsible at all that I voluntarily put my time in to it, but that you can understand why it might be a bit frustrating to have put the time in only to have to reconcile the 20 simulation game comment.

So you released 1.3.3. mostly aware of the big issues with AI Germany / Axis is what you are saying. I can accept that. In the future though, perhaps a note up front so we all don't chase our tails needlessly about something you are mostly aware of?

 

[safe-keeper]

Please, Please PLEASE, I am begging you can you do a 'Weak Generic' NF tree for nations like Bhutan, Nepal, Liberia & other primitive countries?

Thanks!

Agreed. Since I know it's a vision for PDX to have every country be "playable", I suppose you could add an option to let players use the regular focus tree while playing as these nations. While controlled by the AI, though, Nepal and other tiny, "primitive" countries should be as weak as they were historically.

 

[IVM.Firefly]

Please, Please PLEASE, I am begging you can you do a 'Weak Generic' NF tree for nations like Bhutan, Nepal, Liberia & other primitive countries?

Thanks!

Not to mention that New Zealand has a tree that makes it an industrial powerhouse. Good for gameplay? Maybe. Unrealitic and weird? Definitely.

 

[Temudhun Khan]

Anyway, I'm not among those against the concept of minors getting focus trees, but I have some specific questions about Romania.

You didn't talk about any national spirit Romania may start with, is it because it doesn't have any? It wouldn't necessarily a bad thing (after all, Poland doesn't start with active national spirits either), I'm just curious.
Unless it's hiden in the "Balkans dominance" or "His Majesty's Loyal Government", I'm under the impression that Romania cannot create any faction, which, alongside their lack of fifth research slot, is a little bit disappointing. I'm perfectly aware it would be really unrealistic an underpowered Romania to turn into a world leader in both diplomacy and technology, but if a human player manage to get over Romania's weaknesses to turn it into a major, maybe he shouldn't be nerfed anymore? I mean, Bhutan can have five research slots and create a faction, and I don't think Romania has less potential.
Otherwise, a few people are complaining about the lack of industrial buildings focus, but I think it's not such a bad thing, especially considering it seems to have two different focuses to improve its steel production and two other for its oil production, one being Axis related. Unless I'm mistaken, it might be the biggest boost in natural ressources granted to any faction through a focus tree. So, even though it can't produce much equipment because of its weak industry, Romania could easily become the main provider in several ressources for Germany and Italy.
However, I feel like several choices are a bit unbalanced. Joining the Allies or the Axis give you access to two new focuses, while all the bonuses granted by the Commintern, other than being part of the Commintern, can be obtained BEFORE chosing your faction. And the Balkans Dominance looks like it only give you war justifications over your neighbours and has nothing to offer to make use of the new territories, peoples and ressources it gives you access to, nor does it seems to affect your internal politics. But maybe I'm wrong, the effects of those foci aren't necessarily clear.

 

[Telenil]

You know I've gaming on the internet since 1993, I've double fisted the koolaid more than a few times in my life, I have been involved in more gaming communities than I can remember, I am not star dazzled or a messiah worshiper when it comes to dev posts and your post is just self serving to marginalize and mitigate criticism you don't like. You are basically creating an argument that says the criticisms in this thread are not legitimate because there is always going to be criticisms. You make absolutely no effort to distinguish that here, in the real world, there is such a thing as legitimate criticism and not all criticism is equal. You say "as opposed to legitimate criticism" but what would qualify as legitimate criticism given the 4 bullet points you made above? Nothing would.

I'm willing to call legitimate criticism something that does not openly accuse the writer of lying, indifference or incompetence. And something that doesn't use tiresome hyperboles ("baby seal level", "gamebreaking"). I'm not saying you personally did all of that, nor that most of your posts are like that, but some have these tendencies at times.

"AI has been broken since release, don't you get it?" -> annoying
"I wish this DD had talked about the AI" -> fine.

So Meglok and myself are just impatient customers

Pretty much. This is not intended to be mean.

and we never acknowledged or showed sympathy or empathy to PDS about the complicated nature of software development? Is that the argument you are trying to make?

No, I'm saying you seem to vastly underestimate the difficulty of giving information when everything fluctuates so much. And that your accusations in the part about the 20 test games feel very rude to me. Of course Podcat knew, that's literally his job.

my hyperbole of "perfectly content" which I owned up and said yes it's not pedantically accurate, but the main general truth of it still stands.

I really don't think Paradox should assume most players will download specific mods when making the game. You might, few people will in absolute terms.

Only a small fraction of the player base knows that a particular mod exists, virtually all mods have balance problems, and mods will break if there is any kind of major code rewrite. I say all this as a successful modder on an other game.

Mods are a band-aid for someone who wants a specific experience, they can't and shouldn't replace professionnal work.

I'm going to stop there, as I'm getting to the point I have to edit myself after re-reading. Have a good day.

 

[Gwydion5]

A legitimate criticism is, for starters, something that does not openly accuse the writer of lying, indifference or incompetence. Also, something that doesn't use tiresome hyperboles ("baby seal level", "gamebreaking"). You are apparently wondering why your comments get downvotes, no need to go further than that.

You know I would engage you on this, but considering you still haven't actually owned up to the false equivalency of your arguments, I don't see a point in trying to have a constructive conversation on something that is a bit more nuanced and complicated, requiring both parties to be objective and fair. Which you clearly are not as you continue to attack me while never acknowledging my legitimate points and rebuttals.

"I wish this DD had talked about the AI" -> fine.

and yet...

Nice update on Romania, but......Wow.

Not one word on what fixes you are working on to solve the issues players have reported since 1.3.3? Not even a list of issues you recognize need work on? You have got to realize this was not going to make some people happy.

Currently 53 disagrees, 42 agrees, 1 helpful. The proof is in the pudding, and clearly it supports what I'm saying. Infact the only reason I've fallen down this rabbit hole of a poo thread is because I felt the community was being unfair to Meglok (and others) for voicing legitimate criticism.

Pretty much. This phrasing is certainly not intended to be mean.

Interesting that you think I am being impatient given that I am not demanding anything in this thread. I'm just explaining my point of view on why this DD is receiving criticism and trying to defend people like Meglok who gave a fair opinion that was downvoted by majority because it was not blind acceptance and worship to the DD. Yes I have gone off on tangents to further explain other comments made. But the gist of it is still the same and all stems from my original position. If you want a post of me actually requesting something:

• My post on February 24th 2017 asking that we get a sticky on the general forum and bug report forum stating observe mode should not be used.
• My post on April 3rd 2017 bring attention to it again and this time asking BjornB if he as community manager could help.

Maybe I am crazy and completely out of line for expecting at the very least a response on that or some engagement to help resolve that issue. I understand that PDS doesn't have to do anything or everything I think should be done. But that doesn't make me wrong for thinking poorly or being critical of them when they don't.

No. Paradox should not under any circumstances assume most players will download specific mods when making the game. You might, few people will in absolute terms.

Not my point, but again as I said in my first response, our conversation is likely to go nowhere because it seems you are desperately trying to make the round peg that is your beliefs go in to the square hole that is reality.

 

[Pieasar]

King Michael's Coup :O This DLC looks amazing already

 

[podcat]

Currently 53 disagrees, 42 agrees, 1 helpful. The proof is in the pudding, and clearly it supports what I'm saying. Infact the only reason I've fallen down this rabbit hole of a poo thread is because I felt the community was being unfair to Meglok (and others) for voicing legitimate criticism.

I think there are two factors here
1) Its off topic. It isnt discussign the content at all so its not very constructive
2) Meglok is a forum veteran, he has 3.6k posts and posts a lot in popular threads and dev diaries. He has surely read the last diary where we talked about what AI issues were our priorities after 1.3.3. In fact he comments on page 3 of that diary saying how much better SP has gotten with the patch.

anyways guys, I hear ya. You'd have loved to know it all right away and hear about AI stuff, I explained (I thought) why we arent ready to show off that. Seems when people actually discuss Romania and diary content they like the stuff they see.
See you all after easter next week for next diary!

 

[Rotteknokkel]

My wishlist for a new DLC:

1. Historical mode that means historical. Just turn off everything silly, implausible, unhistorical nonsense altogether if you choose historical.
2. Graphical map DLC - let us have a flat map that looks like a map.
   • And different map modes: political, simplified terrain, supply
3. Better (normal) counters.
4. OOB, full OOB, even more advanced than in HOI3. Also full OOB for naval and air.
5. Province names (or at least ability for people to add them theirself), it feels to "bland" with all this nameless provinces around.
6. Better naming of units (I have suggested ways to it before, for instance naming templates/formats along divisional templates etc) - no more "type 2" names running around please. It just "breaks" the game in my opinion.
   • Naming of individual regiments/battalions would also be nice.
7. Ability to design divisions "outside" the template, for instance for a special purpose without the need for a separate template (cluttering up) - and move regiments/batallions/companies between divisions. Also let units be attached directly to a Corps/Army/Group etc and then help out their subordinate units.
8. Fix air
9. Fix navy
10. Fix supply
11. Fix fuel supply

PS: I bet the later big news in this DLC - as it focus on the Axis, is the implementation of the Waffen SS

 

[SrgChris]

@rjohansen You had me on every point except for this

OOB, full OOB, even more advanced than in HOI3.

Back to the looney bin with you D< AWAY foul beast. You shall not passssssss

 

[Gamer_1745]

My wishlist for a new DLC:

1. Graphical map DLC - let us have a flat map that looks like a map.
2. Better (normal) counters.

My friend,

While I share your wish as much as you do these 2 are linked and would I think need to be a special Map & Traditional Counters DLC. I don't think this will happen anytime soon.

 

[Rotteknokkel]

@SrgChris But remember, even though I liked the OOB of HOI3 and want more, I am aware that many weren't, they could design it differently (and better) this time around. Make it more fluid, easier to manage, possible to skip it all if you don't want to for instance.

Examples:

• No bonuses involved - AI programmed to only use "Army Groups" and perhaps "Armies" for instance and have unlimited units in it.
• Also, unlimited units in each "tier" for the player - if you wan't to roleplay you could do that and stick to normal number of units, but for people wanting simple stuff, they could also do that. No problem, no bonuses involved. Just for hierarchical (correct word) purposes. But would as said, be great for immersion and roleplaying.
• And for those that want, they could draw separate plans for corps/armies/groups/theaters etc.

 

[Rotteknokkel]

I don't think this will happen anytime soon.

Perhaps. But I would pay (easily) the double of the value for the game if they would release such a DLC. Also, if the devs hear it enough, they might understand that the RTS-look they are going for now, is not to everyone's taste.

 

[Dalos]

I like it. Maybe I'm in minority here but I enjoyed trees from DLC and looking forward to the new ones.

 

[Vestly]

Weird, that there is nothing about little entente. I am curious about "split Czechoslovakia" focus, since Romania and Czechoslovakia had great relations between each other.

 

[Gamer_1745]

But I would pay (easily) the double of the value for the game if they would release such a DLC.

I would too. And I wish I knew how many people it would take to pre-order it for them to make the DLC.

if the devs hear it enough, they might understand that the RTS-look they are going for now, is not to everyone's taste.

Yes, but not from the same few people over & over. I am sure they know what you think already. I think you should do what I do on most of these old subjects. I have stopped making new posts on these subjects. I will respond when others post, but not bring up the subject myself.

 

[S.Brandt]

Are you in sweden? its not totally impossible to arrange maybe

Yes, I am and I even moved back to Stockholm last week!

 

[13arabba]

Internally, Romania also had a number of issues, first and foremost King Carol’s attempts at steering the country. A devoted hedonist and a less-than-devoted husband, Carol was a constant source of scandals, while also considering himself the only person fit to run the state. You will have to learn how to handle him, which requires time and resources, both of which are in short supply. On the other hand, Carol has a unique new ability allowing him to recruit ministers at a lower cost. Whether or not you want to keep him around is up to you.
View attachment 256017

While it is cool that you remembered Michael and called Carol out on being degenerate, there isn't anything with Corneliu Codreanu in this upcoming expansion. He was almost the leader of the government with Hitler's blessing. Will that change, like a "Trotsky or Stalin" type of deal between Codreanu and Ion Antonescu?

Edit: Also, there should be a thing in the Focus Tree for Romania to get Transylvania instead of these loser countries that get conquered in a flash.

 

[Gamer_1745]

While it is cool that you remembered Michael and called Carol out on being degenerate, there isn't anything with Corneliu Codreanu and the Iron Guard in this upcoming expansion. He was almost the leader of the government with Hitler's blessing. Will that change, like a "Trotsky or Stalin" type of deal between Codreanu and Ion Antonescu?

I think this is also (from a similar question) the answer to your question:

Unfortunately not. It was originally intended in a very early draft of the tree, but had to be cut for time. It is a sad fact of game development that you usually only have time to do less than half of the things you want to put in.

 

[Gwydion5]

1) Its off topic. It isnt discussign the content at all so its not very constructive

How is discussing disapproval of the content in your mind not discussing the content? I understand it may not be the feedback you were hoping for, wanted, or appreciate it, but it's still relevant and "on topic" to the DD, right? If you had held a poll on what this DD should be (regardless if you could deliver) where do you think "minor nations and focus trees" would have ranked? So if you assume like I do that it would have ranked less than AI, Air Warfare, Trade Interface, War Interface etc..., then doesn't that legitimize the criticism of those being disappointed?

I fine with the Romania content, I think it's great you added it. I'm fine with waiting a week, or two, or three before the next DD that addresses things that I think are more important. I'm fine with waiting on 1.4 until you guys feel it's ready. My expectations are low and reasonable. As I've said numerous times, my issue here is how the community is responding to what I feel is fair and legitimate criticism.

And with that I'm out and going to distance myself from this fine red slaughter house splatter of a horse that is beaten to the point of anti-existence.

Have a great day, I and many others are eager and optimistic for the next DD and 1.4. Thank you for putting up with our crap when you don't have to, too.