Houses go extinct too fast

[markmid]

Would this event work? I'm not exactly brilliant at scripting events.

The event is supposed to make a child the same dynasty as their mother as long as the mother is from one of the great houses and the child isn't considered the dynasty of another great house. In this manner the major noble families continue their House even through female members, just as long as they are not married to a House of equal prestige.

Of course this could screw over lesser houses if they have no other children to inherit.

An if liege is a major dynasty trigger could be added so it doesn't fire if that house is already in control of a title, it'd mean one event for each house. It's been a year since I coded so I don't know about the triggers, the code looks great except you used to always need a mean time to happen of at least a few years to avoid bugs, not sure if its the same now.

I still favor traits for each major house as then you could have the occasional trigger for example if someone had no sons, bastards being found, or characters appearing from the books, that sort of thing. Lesser houses that are from the books could have a longer mean time to fire so if there were two choices for a dead dynasty, the non canon house would be picked, we could add different houses having a higher mean time.

 

[yezhanquan]

*snip*

For the Lannisters, Tywin's line is in trouble, but the other branches are not doing too badly.

 

[markmid]

Looks like someone beat us to it!

http://citadel.prophpbb.com/topic5304.html

Just need to add events to this sub - sub mod! or resdesign a different one, I half have the modding bug again for this hmm.

-edit

Personally I am thinking of doing different bonuses depending on the house itself, such as some already get. With a universal bonus of them all getting a fertility boost. Also a non landed title that cannot be lost by that dynasty perhaps, so that dynasty always exists in some form. 'House Lannister' for example.

-edit

Would this event work? I'm not exactly brilliant at scripting events.

The event is supposed to make a child the same dynasty as their mother as long as the mother is from one of the great houses and the child isn't considered the dynasty of another great house. In this manner the major noble families continue their House even through female members, just as long as they are not married to a House of equal prestige.

Of course this could screw over lesser houses if they have no other children to inherit.

Do you mind if I borrow some of your code, i've already whipped up a secondary widow (to remove it) check for great houses, with modifers depending on which dynasty they belong to. Its a first step I feel, we could include minor houses with a lessor modifier.

 

[Calantyr]

Do you mind if I borrow some of your code, i've already whipped up a secondary widow (to remove it) check for great houses, with modifers depending on which dynasty they belong to. Its a first step I feel, we could include minor houses with a lessor modifier.

Go for it. I'm not great at event scripting but I'd like to see the problem solved.

 

[JonStryker]

You don't see Great Houses get wiped out through anything less than massive disasters. There is no record of any Great House running out of male heirs and being replaced as a result; because the husbands that marry into the House take their name instead. Jon Arryn's heir in The Crowned Stag start for instance shouldn't be an Arryn but an arrangement was put into place in the canon. Unfortunately the game can't really replicate this very well.

Great Houses dying off in wars or (huge) plagues is one thing but anything less killing them off (especially one wrong type marriage) doesn't really mesh with the canon.

I know this is already pretty much taken as fact but when I read it it is nowhere explicitly stated that Harrold Hardyng will take the Arryn name. He is the heir, yes. But which surname he would use once he inherits isn't stated at all.

 

[yezhanquan]

Should the sickly Lord Robert die without an heir, Harrold would become a member of the house and Lord of the Eyrie and Defender of the Vale.[1]

↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 - A Feast for Crows, Chapter 41, Alayne.

 

[JonStryker]

Should the sickly Lord Robert die without an heir, Harrold would become a member of the house and Lord of the Eyrie and Defender of the Vale.[1]

↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 - A Feast for Crows, Chapter 41, Alayne.

I can read the wiki myself, thank you

Anyways: I still don't see where in the actual text it is stated that Harrold would become an Arryn.

Spoiler

Her eyes widened. “He is not Lady Waynwood’s heir. He’s Robert’s heir. If Robert were to die . . .”
Petyr arched an eyebrow. “When Robert dies. Our poor brave Sweetrobin is such a sickly boy, it is
only a matter of time. When Robert dies, Harry the Heir becomes Lord Harrold, Defender of the
Vale and Lord of the Eyrie. Jon Arryn’s bannermen will never love me, nor our silly, shaking
Robert, but they will love their Young Falcon . . . and when they come together for his wedding, and
you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden’s cloak of white and grey with a direwolf
emblazoned on the back . . . why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back
your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa . . . Harry, the Eyrie, and
Winterfell. That’s worth another kiss now, don’t you think?”

 

[yezhanquan]

Harrold's claim is based on the fact that he is still related to the Arryn line. Would be a slap in the face for the bannermen loyal to House Arryn that he claims the Vale without using the Arryn name.

 

[JonStryker]

Harrold's claim is based on the fact that he is still related to the Arryn line. Would be a slap in the face for the bannermen loyal to House Arryn that he claims the Vale without using the Arryn name.

Sure but Robert's claim is also based on him being (very distantly) related to house Targaryen. But he didn't switch to "Robert Targaryen", either
As I see it Harrold could still rule the Vale while using the Hardyng surname. He is still related to house Arryn after all. The surname shouldn't be the deciding factor in whether or not bannerman will actually be loyal to someone-

Him becoming an Arryn isn't a fact at all. It is a likely possibility but not more. Using "Harrold Arryn" to raise the point that it is common practice for people to take on the more prestigious surname is a shaky argument.

Edit: The silly thing is that I was the one who brought up Harry in this thread in the first place. lol

 

[yezhanquan]

Robert won his throne through a war, not through peaceful inheritance.

Well, I don't know if having a Targaryen grandmother is considered distant, but really, even his allies concede the fact that he won his throne with the warhammer.

 

[markmid]

These are the kind of reasons I'd like to keep the great houses alive for intrigue events against each other

 

[Rubidium]

Sure but Robert's claim is also based on him being (very distantly) related to house Targaryen. But he didn't switch to "Robert Targaryen", either
As I see it Harrold could still rule the Vale while using the Hardyng surname. He is still related to house Arryn after all. The surname shouldn't be the deciding factor in whether or not bannerman will actually be loyal to someone-

Him becoming an Arryn isn't a fact at all. It is a likely possibility but not more. Using "Harrold Arryn" to raise the point that it is common practice for people to take on the more prestigious surname is a shaky argument.

Edit: The silly thing is that I was the one who brought up Harry in this thread in the first place. lol

It's probably better to look at Dorne, which we know frequently has female rulers pass on their houses' names to their children (see, e.g. the Martells, who we know come through the female line at times, because we know of female Martell rulers).

We also know that the Lannisters are descended from Lann the Clever only through the female line, but obviously kept the name. And more broadly, there's the logical inference from the fact that so many houses are depicted as having ruled for a zillion years but keeping the same last name, despite the fact that we know inheritance can pass through the female line on occasion.

It's true that the Baratheons are somewhat of an exception (both Orys and Robert), but note that Orys took the words and emblem of his wife's family, while Robert hated the Targaryens sufficiently that he would never have taken their own name voluntarily.

 

[knuckey]

Addressing the original point of the OP that houses die out too fast, the AI in the next version may now enact agnatic succession if all they have is female child heirs. This helps with AI dynasty management somewhat.

 

[grzegorz444]

Addressing the original point of the OP that houses die out too fast, the AI in the next version may now enact agnatic succession if all they have is female child heirs. This helps with AI dynasty management somewhat.

So, no more Arryn rule a Reach in Blackfyre rebellion scenario ?
Or not ?

You write: "female child heirs"

or child = descendant(also adult)

 

[Calantyr]

I've created an event system where a character changes their dynasty to one of the great houses if they own their ancient title (Winterfell, Casterly Rock, etc) and they are related to the House within the last 3 generations. Just need to bugfix it, its currently showing a blank event screen.

Edit:

Fixed (I think) and included in the submod. I'll need feedback to see if this fixes the problem of the major Houses dying out.