How come mostly only guys play Paradox Games/grand strategy?

[Matrim_Cauthon]

Probably the same reason why most men don't read romance novels (91% of that readership is female). Or the reverse reason. Basically it's a matter of interests, and I would blame the difference in interests to nurture. It's hard, for example, to find women interested in World War 2 discussion (OOBs, which tank was superior to other, would there be a way for Sealion to work, who was the best general, Patton or Montgomery, etc). Since their interests don't go there, it's hard to expect them to buy a game about that.

I don't think Paradox games are sexist. They're one of the least sexist in their presentations. The EUIV loading screens show both men and women, and the women aren't shown to be inferior or sexual. It's true that most of the cover boxes and ads for the games show men though (conquistadors for EUIV, with some native americans here and there). Victoria's covers, even though the game is named after a woman, usually show Bismarck instead of her. The expansion show either Abraham Lincoln or a boat in the middle of a jungle. HOI's covers usually just show maps, miniatures, planes and sometimes an iron cross. Very neutral. Crusader Kings only show men, which is not so neutral, but is due to history.

Regarding how the game plays, 70% of the time is spent staring at the map and clicking, 20% staring at menus considering your options, 5% staring at the ledgers and 5% at the battle's representations to see what's happening and if you need to interfere with more reinforcements. You move units, and most of the time these units are represented by men, but these are historical games and war in this period was fought mainly by men. To make woman soldier sprites would be weird in this case. In HoI there's not even sprites, just NATO counters. Most of the pics for rulers, advisors, commanders or politicians are men, but again, history is the reason this is so. In CK2 there are more women characters, but most of the time they don't hold power and you don't have to interact with them, but that will depend on the succession rules of your realm. Only in CK2 you're actually supposed to have some interest in your character, he or she being your avatar. In the other games what matters is how many stars the general has or how much bonus the advisor gives or the stats for your ruler. You don't identify with anything, besides a country. So I don't think there would be a reason why a female player would play and then say "this game isn't targeted for me", as would be the case in games in which you're supposed to pick an avatar and there are no female avatars or only sexy female avatars scantily-clad.

Regarding how the community treats women players, Paradox's games are mostly played in Single Player mode. I never played multiplayer, and most people also probably didn't. I wish I could play HoI3 multiplayer (the AI is too dumb), but it's not strictly necessary for enjoyment. Also, a very small percentage of players actually post in forums or in the community page on Steam. In other games, where people talk with each other as they play, I can see how male players can make female players uncomfortable. But in Paradox's games? You're supposed most of the time to play against the AI. And the AI will not make uncomfortable comments.

TLDR: it's a matter of interests. There's nothing in Paradox games that makes them offensive to women. If women don't play, it's because they don't know how awesome the games are. You should do your part and try to convince a woman to play these games, because they don't know the fun they're missing. This could potentially increase Paradox's sales, which would result in more products, so it'd be fun to all.

 

[klopkr]

I think females just simply aren't interested in WW2 and 1936-48 timeframe, which is where the OP took his demographic from.

I'm not sure if I agree with you but I'll admit most other women I know that are into history prefer post or pre world war 2 stuff. It could partially be because it's so rehashed though. There are a lot of women interested in history though if the universities I'm familiar with are any indication.

I wonder if women post on book discussion boards wondering why there are so few men who read the same things that they do

Women just have generally different interests to men. That's not really a problem.

I mean what would be your reaction if women asked you to start reading the same books as them? You'd probably just be completely disinterested in surrendering quality Victoria 2 time to do that! And I expect the majority of women feel the same way about grand strategy.

There's no pressing need to change this (nor is there a need to keep it the same), but if more women decide to take up grand strategy, of course we can provide a warm welcome.

I envy both that, and his post count!

If you read their books you'd probably really like them too and same goes with pdox games I think. I said it earlier in the thread but I think it's mostly an issue of branding and common taboos among women. It's hard to talk about hardcore video games with other women because of a prevalent attitude that that's not very feminine or cool. Usually when games break the stigma of being associated with women it becomes "casual" because the majority of the female demographic can only really play video games casually without being stigmatized (and it's not just men causing this).

I will just say one thing, and you may read into it as you wish.

As a woman who is a hardcore strategy gamer (among other things), there's a reason for why I don't feel comfortable posting in this thread.

I don't know if it's the same reason as you but there's a bit of an annoying idea in this thread touted by others claiming that women biologically don't like X or just aren't good at X. I understand where they're coming from but I think they're just assuming because people don't do X they must be wired to not like X because of their sex. They're going full nature in an area I think is predominantly dominated by nurture.

Anyways if Pdox actually thinks this is a real issue that needs addressing then their best solution will be to tailor their future games to a more mixed demographic. Ck2 is a good example because it has a bit of that role playing family building type stuff in it like the sims. Honestly though women don't need to be pandered to. Those of us who like it will like it and those that don't have plenty of other games to play.

 

[Sopot]

To the OP, what is your statistics from any other videos you do? Maybe you just don't have female hight viewership in general.

As for the topic, my girlfriend is a bigger baby killer than I am, drops more nukes than Ghandi and will play any game out there what so ever.

 

[OrdepNM]

One thing that may be worth posting for this discussion is the results of the Paradoxplaza subreddit survey. It's a small sample of ~1500 respondents and probably somewhat biased towards the hardcore grand strategy players (ie, the people who are more likely to hang around the Paradox subreddit and fill out the survey) but it still gives some idea of what kind of demographics we're talking about here (and props to, I think, Meneth, for making this helpful summary of the results):

Between this and what the OP states, I think there's strong evidence for a very very strong majority of male players in the "echelon" of players that are deeply committed to Pdox games and/or GSG. It does still leave some degree of doubt about the demographics of the more casual and less committed audience. On the other hand, given that I don't see any indicators that women are more likely to be only casually attached to these games than men, I assume both distributions are likely to be fairly equal and bell shaped and not likely to affect the global percentage buildup extensive ,with the number of male players not counted to the larger casual demographic because they are in the "hardcore demographic" being offset by there simply being a larger overall pool of male pc gamers (which I admit comes solely from me perception of it as an historical trend, I have no idea if it still holds true these days).

As to what Pdox must do about this, it fully depends on their strategy. It's a very valid responseto simply shrug off this kind of data and say "we make the games we want to make and the players, whoever they may be and whichever traits they have, will come. On the other hand, if they make a commitment to make the gender landscape of their core player base more even, the last thing any company should do is bury its head in the sand and not face the reality, that they are very likely losing that particular fight. I realize this particular debate within gaming culture may have its well poisoned for years to come over the discussions/shouting contests that were had on the interwebs lately (and of which I know very little, only sometimes hearing mutual friends comment on it on less public channels than social networks - Its a bit like people in neutral countries experienced WWII, you head about heavy fighting somewhere far away and think "thank heavens I'm here") but I'd still like to point out that seeing a pattern deemed undesirable and pointing it out does not necessarily imply the existence of an agenda or the prevalence of discrimination. More so, voicing a proposition deemed "stupid" or using anedoctes as the basis of opinions is not necessarily a destructive contribution to the debate, misguided maybe, but example evaluation and shooting down wrong hypothesis is a valid way to arrive at good theories. Broad generalization and wrongly accusing others of generalization, on the other hand, is not.

I think this is an interesting debate, if not overly important (mostly because I feel that ultimately, marketing can only do so much) but sadly it also tends to awaken some deep rooted positions that people are willing to defend to the last circumstances, sometimes hurting their "camp" more than anything. A pity, really.

Oh and to cover my anedoctes: I have a mother, a sister, a wife and a baby daughter. First plays mobile games exclusively, usually physics puzzles and King games. Second very casually enjoys platformers and nearly exclusive in offline multiplayer (so its a social event). Third doesn't play games at all and recently commented on how weird it is that years go by and "that game" (Victoria II) never seems to disappear from the computer screen. Fourth's a baby.

 

[Phibs]

Things

Yes I agree there absolutely needs to be a VickyIII (wow 56% )

 

[magitsu]

I just read Ordep's summary above.

I just have one note - Cities: Skylines. Gift from the heavens if PDS wants to try and grab and hold more women in their core audience. That will have the best ratio of F:M players in a long time.

There's a much clearer connection from that to map paintings than from Magicka and Mount & Blade. Although M&B probably was almost as skewed as the rest. Pillars is probably no-go because it's very heavily branded to be Obsidian not Paradox. Fantasy war probably draws more women than historical war.

Basically Sim City, Sims and Skyrim are the crowds to target for hc female gamers on PC.
Theme Park, Hospital, Tycoons and Mad TV and Oregon Trail would be good new projects for broad audience for a new developer under Pdx banner.
Although if someone was able to figure out how to make a grand strategy in the realm of popular culture / fashion that would be quite something. Some sort of grand HR management game.

 

[Spartanlemur]

I'm not sure if I agree with you but I'll admit most other women I know that are into history prefer post or pre world war 2 stuff. It could partially be because it's so rehashed though. There are a lot of women interested in history though if the universities I'm familiar with are any indication.



If you read their books you'd probably really like them too and same goes with pdox games I think. I said it earlier in the thread but I think it's mostly an issue of branding and common taboos among women. It's hard to talk about hardcore video games with other women because of a prevalent attitude that that's not very feminine or cool. Usually when games break the stigma of being associated with women it becomes "casual" because the majority of the female demographic can only really play video games casually without being stigmatized (and it's not just men causing this).

Yes, but there's only so much time in the day, and we can't do everything (as much as we may try). Paradox games are monumental time drains.

And I don't think I would enjoy books which women mostly read, because I don't read (other than news and in-game text). I just don't have the time given my huge Steam library, and that I don't enjoy reading. I have trained myself to find games enjoyable, and books something I need to "get through". I have read fewer than ten novels all the way through in my life.

Honestly though, the only place I have seen any evidence of "taboo" is in MMOs and multiplayer games where some players act quite misogynistic. Everywhere else, there is no "taboo"; it's rather something which women are just not taught to be interested in. What I'm saying is that women don't not play games because they think "what will society say about me if I do" but because they think "I'm just not interested in video games" in most cases.

I don't know if it's the same reason as you but there's a bit of an annoying idea in this thread touted by others claiming that women biologically don't like X or just aren't good at X. I understand where they're coming from but I think they're just assuming because people don't do X they must be wired to not like X because of their sex. They're going full nature in an area I think is predominantly dominated by nurture

I also agree that nurture is the primary factor, but firstly, voluntary gender roles are potentially benevolent and good (I often debate this on OT) pushed by education, and not "social pressures" per se (it's not social pressure if everyone is simply doing what they want to, and that happens to be different), and secondly, girls reading more is likely a reason that they do better than boys in school at language and written subjects.

Why should we teach women to pursue a less productive hobby? I mean I love gaming, because I started at three and it has been my major hobby since, but I accept that if I could go back now, I would have smashed my first playstation before I had a chance to turn it on, and would have read more.

I mean so many of us on this thread seem to thing that draining 1000 hours a year in Paradox games is actually a positive thing! While it is for us, it is not for everyone else, and with that time, we could have learned a foreign language, wrote a book, or read through all of the great philosophers.

 

[EU3NOOB]

Yes, but there's only so much time in the day, and we can't do everything (as much as we may try). Paradox games are monumental time drains.

And I don't think I would enjoy books which women mostly read, because I don't read (other than news and in-game text). I just don't have the time given my huge Steam library, and that I don't enjoy reading. I have trained myself to find games enjoyable, and books something I need to "get through". I have read fewer than ten novels all the way through in my life.

Honestly though, the only place I have seen any evidence of "taboo" is in MMOs and multiplayer games where some players act quite misogynistic. Everywhere else, there is no "taboo"; it's rather something which women are just not taught to be interested in. What I'm saying is that women don't not play games because they think "what will society say about me if I do" but because they think "I'm just not interested in video games" in most cases.



I also agree that nurture is the primary factor, but firstly, voluntary gender roles are potentially benevolent and good (I often debate this on OT) pushed by education, and not "social pressures" per se (it's not social pressure if everyone is simply doing what they want to, and that happens to be different), and secondly, girls reading more is likely a reason that they do better than boys in school at language and written subjects.

Why should we teach women to pursue a less productive hobby? I mean I love gaming, because I started at three and it has been my major hobby since, but I accept that if I could go back now, I would have smashed my first playstation before I had a chance to turn it on, and would have read more.

I mean so many of us on this thread seem to thing that draining 1000 hours a year in Paradox games is actually a positive thing! While it is for us, it is not for everyone else, and with that time, we could have learned a foreign language, wrote a book, or read through all of the great philosophers.

Nooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just give it to me!!!!!!

 

[klopkr]

And I don't think I would enjoy books which women mostly read, because I don't read (other than news and in-game text). I just don't have the time given my huge Steam library, and that I don't enjoy reading. I have trained myself to find games enjoyable, and books something I need to "get through". I have read fewer than ten novels all the way through in my life.

I meant that more as a "If you tried it you might like it more than you thought you would" type thing. I think the same applies to women playing pdox games.

Honestly though, the only place I have seen any evidence of "taboo" is in MMOs and multiplayer games where some players act quite misogynistic. Everywhere else, there is no "taboo"; it's rather something which women are just not taught to be interested in. What I'm saying is that women don't not play games because they think "what will society say about me if I do" but because they think "I'm just not interested in video games" in most cases.

I don't mean taboo in the sense that people actively say negative things to women that play videogames or some kind of misogynistic thing. I mean it int he sense that playing a lot of video games isn't something most women can feel proud about because of societal pressures. Since we can't openly be proud about it it become somewhat of a guilty pleasure. Like I said earlier this isn't some kind of misogynistic thing just a quirk of western society. I think a lot of men feel the general taboo of playing video games too much too but to a lesser extent. They also have larger communities of people playing games like them to turn to to avoid that taboo.

I agree with the everything else you said. I don't actually think women not playing paradox games is a problem.

In the case that Pdox thinks it is there are obvious steps they can take to deal with it though. It seems like they actually took some of those steps recently with their new dlc for EU4 and adding female forum portraits.

 

[Spartanlemur]

I meant that more as a "If you tried it you might like it more than you thought you would" type thing. I think the same applies to women playing pdox games.

I suppose it's possible, though the only books I've ever been able to devour have been Bernard Cornwell's. Other topics just don't really interest me.

Similarly, I think that while women may have more potential to enjoy games, I feel that their interests will naturally be very different to those of men. Having said that, given that quite a few women study history, I would expect them to enjoy historical games if they were to give them a try (though I may be wrong on this). I'm just not sure they'd necessarily enjoy historical grand strategy.

I don't mean taboo in the sense that people actively say negative things to women that play videogames or some kind of misogynistic thing. I mean it int he sense that playing a lot of video games isn't something most women can feel proud about because of societal pressures. Since we can't openly be proud about it it become somewhat of a guilty pleasure. Like I said earlier this isn't some kind of misogynistic thing just a quirk of western society. I think a lot of men feel the general taboo of playing video games too much too but to a lesser extent. They also have larger communities of people playing games like them to turn to to avoid that taboo.

I agree with the everything else you said. I don't actually think women not playing paradox games is a problem.

In the case that Pdox thinks it is there are obvious steps they can take to deal with it though. It seems like they actually took some of those steps recently with their new dlc for EU4 and adding female forum portraits.

As you say, men who play games also face stereotyping. Unless you limit your catalogue to CoD and FIFA, people judge you to be some overweight nerd who never grew up properly (many still think that games are for children). And I'm not sure the community aspect of it really depends on gender. People don't generally hiss and spit if they see a female comment on forums. And many of us don't have gamer friends in real life. My brother is hugely into video games, but beyond that, I only have two friends who are, one who is into history and strategy games, and the other who is into Nintendo stuff. Most of my closer friends don't play video games beyond CoD, FIFA, and GTA. And I can't be the only one who is in this situation.

If you're a woman who wants to get into games, you do not face massive obstacles to doing so (barring MMOs and multiplayer), and perhaps even fewer obstacles, as women who game are like men who dance: instantly more desirable to a large amount of people.

And while I do say that there's no pressing social need to get women into games (this is what I dislike about a lot of such discourse; people end up trying to disguise their own needs as social necessity), I think that as a community we'd be better for it if there were more women among us. A more diverse community is generally a healthy thing (more varied perspectives). So while we selfishly want more women to become loyal PDS customers, I just don't think that we need to make this about sexism/misogyny/social constructs/other feminist stuff. There's always a human need to *blame* someone and something for a "problem" which might just be unique to us or our small group of players; we should accept that our desire to bring more female players into the mix is a selfish need which we should work as a sort of "team" towards achieving, but only to the extent that we don't end up accepting a loss in game quality as a result (which may be through them becoming less historical [female generals in CK2 other than the awesome Joan of Arc event chain] or being too oversimplified as an attempt to bring in new players [rather than just cautiously making the learning curve more welcoming without losing depth, which is what PDS are doing now] which would obviously open the games up to a wider audience but neglect existing core fans). Marketing is another strategy which can efectively bring in new players without harming content.

Which is why I support the idea of Paradox's new DLC despite not being a feminist myself. I think that as long as content is geared towards boosting appeal among women, and not to make a sociopolitical statement, then it can only be a good thing. Not only are the new forum avatars useful for women on the forum who want to be recognised as such (probably so they can be referred to as "she" in the third person, and not "he", which is naturally the default on a forum which is 95% male) as long as in a few weeks the guys start reverting back to their old avatars ( ) but the DLC itself allows women more opportunity to experience female historical characters in their playthroughs, which of course makes it more appealing to them.

We should want more women playing Paradox games because it is in our interests that they do, and not because feminism and misogyny and social pressures and *yawn*...

 

[AndPimentel]

We should want more women playing Paradox games because it is in our interests that they do, and not because feminism and misogyny and social pressures and *yawn*...

This.

 

[unmerged(521525)]

But the tendency for women playing video games was to follow a trend, usually sparked by a male, be it their dad, brother, friend or boyfriend.

I am a girl and an avid gamer. I have an other brother, and I've defiantly noticed a trend that most female gamers I know where introduced to games by their brother or close friend (often male).
So while at first glance I feel like this statement is true I feel like you're kinda missing the point. When my brother turned seven my grandparents gave him his first video game system (a snes I believe) because "hey that's a thing boys are supposed to like right?". He then became obsessed. And I growing up in a house with easy access to video games became obsessed. But I will bet you a lot of money that if I had been a single child or had only sisters my grandparents would not have given us a video game system. I then introduced my best friends(female) to video games, some of which became life time gamers, some of which it was always more casual. I bet with a similar percentages to guys. All of them had an interest to some extent.

I would imagine that most passionate gamers started playing video games as children. And I will tell you as a child in all of elementary school I met one other girl who played video games regularly. And nine out of ten had never even once played a video game. I talked to many girls who didn't even know that video games existed. Seriously. I was shocked as well. I loved video games so I brought the subject up a lot... The thing is children don't just pull interests out of the ether with out outside influences. So to my original point. It is less girls following men or a trend and just that most girls where not exposed to it at all if there wasn't a male. Even as a kid the games I liked differed from the ones my brother liked (with some overlap of course). I liked to be able to pause and think things through and plan while he likes more fast paced action games. My point being I was not blindly following his interests.

I think these things are changing as children have more access to the internet (chances to be introduced to hobbies outside of their immediate family or friends) and the idea that only boys like games is changing. As to girls liking this particular genre of game I think its just a matter of percentages. This is a pretty niche genre in general. The amount of adult women that play games is pretty low and so its a small percentage of a small percentage. Also about the statistics sighted. Though I play a lot of games I don't visit reddit and I don't really watch youtube videos pertaining to video games. Other then a few parody and review people. I was only on this forum looking for mods. Make of that what you will.

Also to clarify when I said my female friends all liked games once being introduced I mean combat oriented games (zelda, pokemon, baldur's gate etc). Not sims or something. Sorry if I'm repeating someone else.

 

[Sarius1997]

I am a girl and an avid gamer. I have an other brother, and I've defiantly noticed a trend that most female gamers I know where introduced to games by their brother or close friend (often male).
So while at first glance I feel like this statement is true I feel like you're kinda missing the point. When my brother turned seven my grandparents gave him his first video game system (a snes I believe) because "hey that's a thing boys are supposed to like right?". He then became obsessed. And I growing up in a house with easy access to video games became obsessed. But I will bet you a lot of money that if I had been a single child or had only sisters my grandparents would not have given us a video game system. I then introduced my best friends(female) to video games, some of which became life time gamers, some of which it was always more casual. I bet with a similar percentages to guys. All of them had an interest to some extent.

I would imagine that most passionate gamers started playing video games as children. And I will tell you as a child in all of elementary school I met one other girl who played video games regularly. And nine out of ten had never even once played a video game. I talked to many girls who didn't even know that video games existed. Seriously. I was shocked as well. I loved video games so I brought the subject up a lot... The thing is children don't just pull interests out of the ether with out outside influences. So to my original point. It is less girls following men or a trend and just that most girls where not exposed to it at all if there wasn't a male. Even as a kid the games I liked differed from the ones my brother liked (with some overlap of course). I liked to be able to pause and think things through and plan while he likes more fast paced action games. My point being I was not blindly following his interests.

I think these things are changing as children have more access to the internet (chances to be introduced to hobbies outside of their immediate family or friends) and the idea that only boys like games is changing. As to girls liking this particular genre of game I think its just a matter of percentages. This is a pretty niche genre in general. The amount of adult women that play games is pretty low and so its a small percentage of a small percentage. Also about the statistics sighted. Though I play a lot of games I don't visit reddit and I don't really watch youtube videos pertaining to video games. Other then a few parody and review people. I was only on this forum looking for mods. Make of that what you will.

Also to clarify when I said my female friends all liked games once being introduced I mean combat oriented games (zelda, pokemon, baldur's gate etc). Not sims or something. Sorry if I'm repeating someone else.

Probably really something to consider.

 

[Dragula]

How come people care who plays it? This is one of the issue, if this thread had never accepted and we just went with "humans play games" everything would be so much better. Basically it's all OPs faults.

 

[Thrake]

I am a girl and an avid gamer. I have an other brother, and I've defiantly noticed a trend that most female gamers I know where introduced to games by their brother or close friend (often male).
So while at first glance I feel like this statement is true I feel like you're kinda missing the point. When my brother turned seven my grandparents gave him his first video game system (a snes I believe) because "hey that's a thing boys are supposed to like right?". He then became obsessed. And I growing up in a house with easy access to video games became obsessed. But I will bet you a lot of money that if I had been a single child or had only sisters my grandparents would not have given us a video game system. I then introduced my best friends(female) to video games, some of which became life time gamers, some of which it was always more casual. I bet with a similar percentages to guys. All of them had an interest to some extent.

I would imagine that most passionate gamers started playing video games as children. And I will tell you as a child in all of elementary school I met one other girl who played video games regularly. And nine out of ten had never even once played a video game. I talked to many girls who didn't even know that video games existed. Seriously. I was shocked as well. I loved video games so I brought the subject up a lot... The thing is children don't just pull interests out of the ether with out outside influences. So to my original point. It is less girls following men or a trend and just that most girls where not exposed to it at all if there wasn't a male. Even as a kid the games I liked differed from the ones my brother liked (with some overlap of course). I liked to be able to pause and think things through and plan while he likes more fast paced action games. My point being I was not blindly following his interests.

I think these things are changing as children have more access to the internet (chances to be introduced to hobbies outside of their immediate family or friends) and the idea that only boys like games is changing. As to girls liking this particular genre of game I think its just a matter of percentages. This is a pretty niche genre in general. The amount of adult women that play games is pretty low and so its a small percentage of a small percentage. Also about the statistics sighted. Though I play a lot of games I don't visit reddit and I don't really watch youtube videos pertaining to video games. Other then a few parody and review people. I was only on this forum looking for mods. Make of that what you will.

Also to clarify when I said my female friends all liked games once being introduced I mean combat oriented games (zelda, pokemon, baldur's gate etc). Not sims or something. Sorry if I'm repeating someone else.

If you've played SNES, you might have heard of gameboy.

 

[Bigh RI Joe]

Tone down the anti-feminism for Gaia's sake!

 

[magitsu]

Also to clarify when I said my female friends all liked games once being introduced I mean combat oriented games (zelda, pokemon, baldur's gate etc). Not sims or something. Sorry if I'm repeating someone else.

Sims and Skyrim still seem to have the largest crowd of female gamers - or they are the easiest crowd among which to allow yourself identified as such. Most notably numerous modders, which is a pretty good sign of true enthusiasm.

We should strive at least to become a community where you don't have to hide as a matter of necessity.
Nintendo crowd has traditionally been a very inviting for newcomers. So perhaps that's also a good source of inspiration. Although Skylines will already bring in a healthy number of non-grognards to provide much needed variety.

 

[KestrelGirl]

Just to balance things out a little in this thread:
I am a girl gamer. I play Minecraft (typically considered a boy's game) as well as Crusader Kings 2. And other girls introduced me to both games. I'm also into history, for those sexist farts who think that girls don't like that.
Dragula gets it. People play games. Who the heck cares about gender?

 

[Dale248]

Gamer girls are nothing but myth and legend, along with Unicorns, Minotaurs and Rome 2.
If you or a friend has seen a gamer girl, I recommend you contact your nearest psychological rehabilitation ward.

 

[SolSara]

Gamer girls are nothing but myth and legend, along with Unicorns, Minotaurs and Rome 2.
If you or a friend has seen a gamer girl, I recommend you contact your nearest psychological rehabilitation ward.

What should one do if one is a gamer girl then?