Iberia Changes I Would Like to See

[Gouda_boy]

As when every patch is nearly completed, many people want their ideas for future patches to be, and every time I think, "well everyone else is doing it" so here are some possible changes I think would vastly improve the Iberian Peninsula.

Sorry, these provinces are on the Orbis Terrarum Map (For accuracy purposes), but the map is still close enough.

This is from my personal Project. It's largely based on current provinces and the areas somewhat follow Spain's autonomous communities as well, though I know using modern provinces for a game in the medieval ages is not exactly the devs' first pick. I just think it adds a good amount of province density

For the purpose of Vanilla, Plasencia, Merida, Tudela, Alava, and the other Belearic Islands could all be considered "Optional"

Spanish/Arabic(Andalucian)/Roman
Huelva/Walbah/Onoba - Not much to say about Huelva, but it was a fairly important town ever since the Pheonicians, producing Copper. Drylands or Grasslands

Valladolid/[Balad] Al-walid/... - Quite an important city. Was occasionally the capital of Spain, Isabella and Ferdinand were married here, Columbus died here. It maintained many privileges as a city throughout the middle ages. Should produce wine (several wine regions exist around Vallodolid). Grasslands

Zamora/Azemur/Ocellodurum - A strategically important city during the 12-13th centuries, and held onto its importance after the Christians began reconquering further south. The site of plenty of fights throughout earlier centuries. Because of this, it was a heavily fortified city. It might be plausible to grant Zamora a fort. Zamora should produce Livestock. Highlands

A Coruña/Kwaruna/Brigantium - Renamed from Galicia as it is split. English is Corunna

Pontevedra/Bontifidra/Pontus Vetera - A commercial hub since the 12th century (peaked later in the 1400s), and one the largest centers in Galicia. Produces Fish. Woods or Hills terrain.

Lugo/Iughu/Lucus Augusti - Not much is said for the 1400s or past that, but it was "insignifcant" in the 11th century, but I assume it grew again over the course of a few centuries, as it was a pilgrimage site and held some rights. Could be under the influence of the clergy Estate. Could produce Gold, Iron, or Naval Supplies (Or even paper) Woods or Hills Terrain

Guadalajara/Wadi Al-Hajara/Caracca - Significant city for the Moors (So re-recnquista stuff) and the House of Mendoza was "prominent" in the city (According to Wikipedia, now a more reliable source of information). Was granted city status by King Heny IV. Could be under the Noble Estate, and be producing cloth or wool. Highlands

Segovia/Siqubiyyah/Segovia - Segovia is an important city along trade routes through Spain, and was an important city for cloth. It was quite large during the 15th and 16th centuries (What city is the province of Castilla la vieja for). As such, Segovia should produce cloth. Grasslands

Avila/Abila/Abela - As with most cities in Spain, Avila grew very prosperous through the 14 and 1500s and had importance in the early times of eu4. Fortified town (So a fort), with an unknown trade good. Highlands

Albacete/Al-Basit/None - Non-existent during Roman Times, Albacete grew quickly during the 14th and 15th centuries becoming an important stop between Central and east Spain. Due to the importance of agriculture in the region, grain should be produced here. Grasslands terrain as the surrounding regeion was known for being flat.

Castellón/Fadrell/Unknown - Nothing much to this town, but Aragon needs something...

Braga/.../Bracara - Is the seat of the oldest Archbishopric in portugal and used to be a seat of the Portuguese court. Wikipedia does not have a lot... Unknown production in hills terrain. Under influence of the Clergy Estate.

Setúbal/Shetubar/English:Saint Ubes/French:Saint Yves - Nothing to go on with this one (Thanks Wikipedia), however drylands, while producing fish.

Málaga/Malaqah/Malaca - As one the oldest and largest cities in Iberia (and the world) Malaga has held importance over Millenium and was an especially important port city for Granada. Could either produce Salt or Wine in highlands terrain (Wine if the trade good includes other fruits and nuts, if not, need another trade good that covers such foods).

1.I also recommend splitting the Canarais into two, Las Palmas and Tenerife with a strait connecting them.

2.REMOVE Labourd from Iberia... I'm suprised you still kept Labourd in Vasconia for 1.25, but either way, this has to move to the french region.

Whenever Iberia gets a Patch or DLC, The Maghreb will need to be included. Need to, Need to include the Maghreb.

 

[withche.07]

This thread is awesome, as I have written here https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ble-barbary-pirate-state-possibility.1083790/
Maghreb overhaul should follow this, altering piracy mechanics may help. I don't have much information about region but national trees for morocco would be good start to accompany iberia overhaul + ofc colonization overhaul.

I am pretty sure there will be dlc or immersion pack for region with unique Tercio unit.

 

[Jimmyfeellucky]

No. Navarra can't no-cb irish minors and escape from being sandwiching between big blob France, England, Castile and Aragon if lost its coastal and precious naval.
Anyway, that iberia rework look very good. I'm sick of long and thin provinces of Castile.
Cheer.

 

[Mingmung]

An Iberia immersion pack is on its way! Let's hope they'll listen to the feedback here.

 

[Mingmung]

I hope they’ll pick the right capital for the Algarve; Lagos.

Also a look at the Maghreb and southern France (La Marche and Foix, where you at?) would be appreciated.

 

[Dutchman251]

I really hope that they're finally going to give some love/flavour to Granada!

 

[cristofolmc]

Cortes mechanic should be mandatory as well as inquisition. And something trade related for Portugal.

 

[Mingmung]

This is my own take on Iberia based on those administrative maps and my own research:

Names may not be 100% right or in the correct language. Red dots indicate capital-cities or other important cities. Not all of the cities are in the correct location as of 1.27 (in-game, that is), so the developers really need to fix that in the upcoming update to avoid making mistakes when it comes to making new province-borders.

Spoiler: Provinces:

Castille and Granada:
1. A Coruna
2. Santiago de Compostela
3. Lugo
4. Asturias (Oviedo as capital)
5. Léon
6. Zamora
7. Valladolid
8. Palencia
9. Cantabria (Santander as capital)
10. Burgos
11. Soria
12. Rioja (Logrono as capital)
13. Vizcaya (Bilbao as capital)
14. Salamanca
15. Ávila
16. Segovia
17. Guadalajara
18. Madrid
19. Toledo
20. Cuenca
21. Cáceres
22. Badajoz (1) and/or Mérida (2)
23. La Mancha (Ciudad Real as capital)
24. Huelva (2) (also put Aracena (1) on the map there)
25. Seville (1) (also put Antequera (2) on the map there)
26. Cádiz
27. Córdoba
28. Jaén
29. Murcia (Murcia (2) as capital) (also put Cartagena (3) and Albacete (1) on the map there)
30. Plasencia
31. Gibraltar
32. Malaga
33. Granada
34. Almeria
Aragon and Navarre:
1. Navarre (Pamplona (1) as capital) (also put San Sebastian (2) on the map there)
2. Huesca
3. Zaragoza
4. Teruel
5. Rósellon
6. Gerona
7. Lleida (Lleida (1) as capital) (also put Tàrrega (2) on the map there)
8. Barcelona
9. Tarragona (Tarragona (2) as capital) (also put Tortosa (1) on the map there)
10. Castellón (de la Plana)
11. Valencia
12. Alicante (Alicante (2) as capital) (also put Xàtiva (1) on the map there)
Portugal:
1. Porto
2. Braganca
3. Viseu
4. Guarda
5. Coimbra (Coimbra (1) as capital) (also put Leiria (2) on the map there)
6. Lisboa (also put Setúbal (2) on the map there)
7. Santarém
8. Évora
9. Beja
10. Algarve (Lagos (1) as capital) (also put Faro (2) on the map there)

 

[BalticM]

This is my own take on Iberia based on those administrative maps and my own research:

Nice map, but I would add:
- Braga for Portugal.
- Ourense for Galicia. Acc. 16th century census Ourense was the most populous province of Galicia! And 4-province Galicia with 3 port provinces would feel far more right.
- Would add both Badajoz & Merida. So 4 provinces for Extremadura. Again in 16th century Extremadura was fairly populous.
We'll see how it go

 

[navaluiki]

This is my own take on Iberia based on those administrative maps and my own research:

Names may not be 100% right or in the correct language. Red dots indicate capital-cities or other important cities. Not all of the cities are in the correct location as of 1.27 (in-game, that is), so the developers really need to fix that in the upcoming update to avoid making mistakes when it comes to making new province-borders.

Spoiler: Provinces:

Castille and Granada:
1. A Coruna
2. Santiago de Compostela
3. Lugo
4. Asturias (Oviedo as capital)
5. Léon
6. Zamora
7. Valladolid
8. Palencia
9. Cantabria (Santander as capital)
10. Burgos
11. Soria
12. Rioja (Logrono as capital)
13. Vizcaya (Bilbao as capital)
14. Salamanca
15. Ávila
16. Segovia
17. Guadalajara
18. Madrid
19. Toledo
20. Cuenca
21. Cáceres
22. Badajoz (1) and/or Mérida (2)
23. La Mancha (Ciudad Real as capital)
24. Huelva (2) (also put Aracena (1) on the map there)
25. Seville (1) (also put Antequera (2) on the map there)
26. Cádiz
27. Córdoba
28. Jaén
29. Murcia (Murcia (2) as capital) (also put Cartagena (3) and Albacete (1) on the map there)
30. Plasencia
31. Gibraltar
32. Malaga
33. Granada
34. Almeria
Aragon and Navarre:
1. Navarre (Pamplona (1) as capital) (also put San Sebastian (2) on the map there)
2. Huesca
3. Zaragoza
4. Teruel
5. Rósellon
6. Gerona
7. Lleida (Lleida (1) as capital) (also put Tàrrega (2) on the map there)
8. Barcelona
9. Tarragona (Tarragona (2) as capital) (also put Tortosa (1) on the map there)
10. Castellón (de la Plana)
11. Valencia
12. Alicante (Alicante (2) as capital) (also put Xàtiva (1) on the map there)
Portugal:
1. Porto
2. Braganca
3. Viseu
4. Guarda
5. Coimbra (Coimbra (1) as capital) (also put Leiria (2) on the map there)
6. Lisboa (also put Setúbal (2) on the map there)
7. Santarém
8. Évora
9. Beja
10. Algarve (Lagos (1) as capital) (also put Faro (2) on the map there)

Wow, I really like that map (it even includes Plasencia!). I'd only change a couple things. Rosellon is a bit bigger to the West and I also think Calatayud should be added to Aragon and Talavera to Castille (it was a significant city and produced a lot of pottery).

 

[navaluiki]

Nice map, but I would add:
- Braga for Portugal.
- Ourense for Galicia. Acc. 16th century census Ourense was the most populous province of Galicia! And 4-province Galicia with 3 port provinces would feel far more right.
- Would add both Badajoz & Merida. So 4 provinces for Extremadura. Again in 16th century Extremadura was fairly populous.
We'll see how it go

Yeah, I agree with what you've said

 

[regne_valencia]

Some changes i will like to see:

-Make Sevilla a final trade node again

-Remove Leon tag, imho is usseles and only helps to make iberia balcanized this tag has no sense for the age that covers the game

-Splite leon province in two provinces,Leon and Zamora

-Tarragona for the momment is in the Valencia area, because of balance reasons I guess, altough in real life is and always has been in Catalonia. So, in my opinion Valencia province could be divided into: Valencia and Castellón, returning the province of Tarragona to where it belongs: Catalonia.Doin that Aragon,catalonia and valencia states will have 3 provinces each one.

- Labourd shouldn't be in the Basque area, and much less in the Iberia region. The actual part of the Basque Country that now a days is part of France, it's actually already inside the Navarra province, at least most of it. So please, Paradox, take out Labourd from Iberia and Basque Country. It makes no sense, and it's border gore. (Ddrjake confirmed this will be changed)

Small rework off NI spanish ideas,the bonuses are the same but i changed the order you get it because i think get the military bonus early represents better the spanish military power in the early dates off the game

Age of discovery: +1 colonist
Spanish Tercios: 15% land morale,5% discipline
Inquisition: +2% missionary strenght
Ultra catholicism: papal influence +2
Gold fleet: Provincial market power +10%,tariffs +15%
Spanish armada: National Sailors +10%,heavy boats combat +10%
Golden age prestige +1

Traditions:

Merchants +1
Missionary:+1
Colonial growing:25%

A new type off goverment Foralism Monarchy:

Foralism Monarchy: Bonus in stability, less revolts , better relations with subject nations and vassals,but more province autonomy and decentrlization with kingdoms that you own

Also for historical flavour can make the option off choosing this option by event,mission or how devs thinks is better:

Reform of conde duque Olivares "Union de armas": Big penalty in stability and big revolts, but if you manage the initial situation and can defeat the revolts you will get a bonus in province autonomy,tax and manpower it will represent the full integration off all kingdoms you own and will be the end off foralism kind of goverment

Change spanish flag

For Aragon other optional things that can add flavour:

-Aragon can start with Foralism Monarchy

-Adding tags for kingdom off Valencia and kingdom off Mallorca for better simulation off the decentralization off Aragons crown

 

[Francisco Augusto]

I have few issues I'd like to adress:

1. Setúbal
I agree with the maps that have Setúbal as a province. That whole area (setubal, Palmela, Alcácer do sal etc) was and still is quite distinct from the dry Alentejo because of the Sado River. Instead of fish I'd suggest the province to produce wine, as that region was known (atleast within Portugal) to produce a very characteristic wine, especially the 'Moscatel de Setúbal'.

2. i)Uniting the iberian peninsula under one crown
This should happen more often. There were numerous attempts to unite all iberian kingdoms (and even one "successful" even though by accident).
I'd suggest revamping the existing event Spain has for making Portugal a PU partner, by making it much more likely if Portugal's king is a general in a war against Morocco.
Vice-versa, it should also be possible for Portugal make castille and aragon junior partners. This might be controversial, but this could work just in the same way the iberian wedding does for aragon or the PLC being formed by Lithuania. Maybe add a condition of Portugal having conquered a big chunk if not all of Morocco to prevent am obvious case of a much less powerful Senior Partner.
2. ii) De Facto union of the crowns under new monarch
As occurred in history and was mentioned throughout this thread, aragon and even Portugal during the Iberian Union retained a lot of autonomy. So I'd suggest having the admin tech condition changed to level 17 or 18, where absolutism would be in full swing and the estates (especially the nobility) would have a reduced influence compared to the early stages of the game.
Another condition could be that the nobility control less than a certain percentage of all kingdoms (Portugal and aragon included), which would mean a senior partner had to have the power to reduce its junior partners' estates influence, maybe by events revoking the estates' control over its PU partners' provinces. On the other hand, the condition regarding the number of provinces held by junior partners should be softened, maybe by not counting overseas provinces.


A few links which back my thoughts:
https://pt.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setúbal (seeing as the English page has barely anything on setubals history I'd recommend reading this and using Google translate which yields satisfactory results)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Alcácer_Quibir (inspiration for the event triggering castilles overlordship over Portugal)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_da_Paz,_Prince_of_Portugal (one of attempts to ""peacefully"" unite the iberian kingdoms)

 

[TheRipper69-PT]

Archdiocese of Braga was and still is the most important in Portugal, this single reason should be enough to make province important.
Regarding size - province would be of size of any casual province in Germany.
Regarding development, Braga & Porto provinces even after split should be among highest development provinces in Portugal since that area is the most populous area in Portugal since Middle Ages.

View attachment 407331
Overall this map is fairly good for potential provinces in Portugal. It is administrative divisions of 1936, but provinces were created according natural geographical boundaries in Portugal. I wouldn't say that it can't be valid for 15th century.

3 states could be created:

Douro

• Porto
• Braga
• Braganca

Beira

• Lisboa
• Santarem
• Coimbra
• Viseu
• Castelo Branco (or Leiria)

Alentejo

• Evora
• Beja
• Faro

Regarding Castelo Branco, I recall suggestion (can't find it) made by Portuguese user who suggested Castelo Branco province and explained that there was strategical fortress, one of the most important in Portugal, and province should contain fort. I don't know much about it, but I wouldn't call Castelo Branco insignificant right away.
Yet my own suggestion would be to make Leiria province instead of Castelo Branco as I would think that Portugal needs more coastal provinces.

11 provinces for Portugal can't be too many, no way. Ireland which is smaller and was less populous / less significant has 13 now!

Well this is a good map of Portugal, I would divide extremadura in two, lisbon and Setúbal.
Setubal was a major salt and fish producer.

Castelo Branco was a major fortification a big village for the region, also close is Tomar, Tomar was the home of the knights of christ who were a major military and naval force for Portugal

Also, Afonso V was way better than an average monarch. One of the best of Portugal, his reign was responsible for the whole start of the exploration and the start of the portuguese golden age... Administratively he was ok, he managed to be one of the biggest producers of sugar and gold exploration from gold coast was enough to have one of the biggest war chests in europe.

He won the war of castillian succession, just see the peace treaty, yes he did not win the ultimate goal (pu on castille) but assured future territory (tordesillas) and spain had to pay for war reparations, also left castille and aragon with no fleet because portugal captured their full fleet.

 

[Mingmung]

There's only a limited space for provinces eh guys xD

 

[navaluiki]

There's only a limited space for provinces eh guys xD

Well, The British Isles already have a lot of tiny provinces, I don't see why Spain and Portugal can't have a similar density of provinces.
The Isles have an area of 315,159 km2 and the Iberian Peninsula 582,000 km2. However in the game the former have 55 provinces and the later only 48 (Includind Labourd and Gibraltar). With all of our suggestions (including mine, yours and the ones from @BalticM) there would be 61. I find it fair. Perhaps Iberia should have even more.
Also, at the time Iberia was considerably more populous than the British Isles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_in_1500

Pd. I was also considering whether Minorca should be a province too in order to show the 18th Century British occupation

 

[Mingmung]

Well, The British Isles already have a lot of tiny provinces, I don't see why Spain and Portugal can't have a similar density of provinces.
The Isles have an area of 315,159 km2 and the Iberian Peninsula 582,000 km2. However in the game the former have 55 provinces and the later only 48 (Includind Labourd and Gibraltar). With all of our suggestions (including mine, yours and the ones from @BalticM) there would be 61. I find it fair. Perhaps Iberia should have even more.
Also, at the time Iberia was considerably more populous than the British Isles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_in_1500

Pd. I was also considering whether Minorca should be a province too in order to show the 18th Century British occupation

My own suggestion has 56 mainland provinces for Iberia. I would be very, very happy if the actual updated Iberia has the same amount or more.

We should stay realistic with our expectations, though. Population and size in km2 are poor indications. You also can't really compare regions 1:1. A similar province-density is needed, but we'll see how far it goes next week.

I'm also kind of expecting a Maghreb rework, to be honest. As well as some touch-ups here and there around Iberia. Iberia itself is just not enough, I think. Especially not if we look at both the Russia- and England-patch which covered more than just their namesake region.

 

[navaluiki]

My own suggestion has 56 mainland provinces for Iberia. I would be very, very happy if the actual updated Iberia has the same amount or more.

We should stay realistic with our expectations, though. Population and size in km2 are poor indications. You also can't really compare regions 1:1. A similar province-density is needed, but we'll see how far it goes next week.

I'm also kind of expecting a Maghreb rework, to be honest. As well as some touch-ups here and there around Iberia. Iberia itself is just not enough, I think. Especially not if we look at both the Russia- and England-patch which covered more than just their namesake region.

Considering the fact that if Iberia had the same province density as the British Isles it would have more than 100 provinces, I think asking for just 60-65 is even a great understimation. I hope Paradox at least give us that amount.

I also think they should redo the Maghreb, it is very bad compared to nearby regions. For example, Ceuta and Melilla should be tiny provinces like Gibraltar. They should use this expasion to do it.

 

[Mingmung]

Considering the fact that if Iberia had the same province density as the British Isles it would have more than 100 provinces, I think asking for just 60-65 is even a great understimation. I hope Paradox at least give us that amount.

I also think they should redo the Maghreb, it is very bad compared to nearby regions. For example, Ceuta and Melilla should be tiny provinces like Gibraltar. They should use this expasion to do it.

Underestimation? Wow, what are you expecting? xD 60 would be a really good deal.

 

[Jimmyfeellucky]

Better colonialism mechanic, better naval stuff (huge naval battles take ages to finish), better piracy mechanic (real pirates OPM)
Restore Great kingdom of Asturias and/or Hispania empire
Navarre mission tree
Add national idea for Andalusia and ability to restore mighty Umayyad Caliphate
Morocco, Algieria, Tunis ideas + rework

 

[navaluiki]

Underestimation? Wow, what are you expecting? xD 60 would be a really good deal.

I think 60-65 would be great. (I don't like having a lot of tiny unclickeable provinces). What I meant is that seeing how small British provinces are in in comparison, asking for 60 or more Iberian provinces is perfectly reasonable