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Nobody is saying anything about terrorism.

"Nobody"? It has been directly implied a couple of times in the thread...

You can offend Muslims without causing terrorism

True. Yet Paradox:

  • Declared Muhammad "the mad Arab"
  • Allows "the death of the Muslim faiths"
  • Permits players to follow Muhammad's equally holy bloodline and create an army of decadent homosexuals the world over

The Muslim PDX playerbase fortunately knows how to separate offense from fiction, and zero negative press has arisen from the above representations of Islam. I still stand by the fact that it's not fear of stepping on Muslims' toes, but the limitations of the game itself, that blocks a proper PDX-made representation of the rise of Islam.
 
I haven't read the whole thread but what I want is more non combat related game play, and increased interaction. The only focus I really like is seduction. I wish the other ones were more interactive.

Speaking of which I started a thread a few min ago about my experience with the Proselytizing nature. I haven't gotten any more rulers to mass convert than I did with Unyielding, and there's nothing I can do as a character (besides sending in my diviner) to increase the chance. I'm not asking for the chance to be 100%, just that there's an obvious advantage in proselytizing and more events.
 
Rise of the Barons DLC

- Playable barons
- More holdings per counties
- 4 tiers of holdings
- Monk and nun holdings
- Farming holdings and other holdings that branch off

- Tiers of holdings:
1) Hamlet, Village/Manor, Town/Small Estate, City/Large Estate
- Rank 1-4 is ruled by a Mayor/Baron
2) Monastery/Convent, Friary/Priory, Abbey/Commandry, Cathedral/ Order Headquarters
- Rank 1 is ruled by a Brother Superior/Sister Superior, Rank 2 by Friar/Prioress, Rank 3 by Abbot/Abbess/Master, Rank 4 by a Bishop/Grand Master
3) Fortified Outpost, Motte-and-Bailey, Castle, Fortress
- Rank 1-2 is ruled by a Captain, Rank 3-4 by a Castellan

- The main holder of the county capital will always be a count unless its a type 2 holding which in that case it would be an Archbishop.

- To build a Town/Manor, Abbey/Commandry, and Castle you need permission from the highest sovereign liege (excluding Emperor if inside the HRE)
- Universities can be built which are standalone buildings like hospitals that further educate characters, improve technology speed, and have their own chain of events
- Holdings can have different cultures and religions
- Complex plots that target multiple characters
- Food as a resource to help limit full time and long term call to arms as well as to encourage development of agrarian holdings as opposed to economic ones
- HRE can build Imperial Castles and Imperial Cities in holdings belonging to its vassals. These are immediate vassals of the Emperor
- Level 3+ holdings may break free from your control to be independent or to be under your liege or another vassal of your liege

- Ability to assign court members and family members to control new holdings once they are built

- Characters can be educated in type 2 buildings before being sent to a university. This type of education has more positive effects than negative effects when compared to being tutored at a court. Sending characters here might be a good option if there are no characters at the court available that have good traits/stats. There is a risk though that they may want to commit to living a pious life.

- Game rules option to limit court "cut off" size. Currently after 30 characters, birth rates go down.
 
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Additional interface improvements:

- Inbreeding risk for marriages between relatives (distant or otherwise) on the marriage arrangement tab;
- Custom tags for characters of special interest
 
"Nobody"? It has been directly implied a couple of times in the thread...

Since I was the person who made the first post, let me clarify what I meant:

Depicting the Prophet Muhammad's face is simply Not Done. Steps have been taken to avoid doing it (it is the only portrait in the game that is not shown for this reason), and people would be rather upset if that had not been the case.

I suppose you could keep that property in place while having him alive, but that leaves the rather obvious issue that something bad (torture, mutilation, etc.) could be done to him while he was alive (which wouldn't be easy to block completely), that something bad could be done as him (e.g. joining the Devil Worshippers or converting to another religion) by the player or AI (which would be hard to completely block), that he could pick up (objectively or subjectively) bad traits/modifiers, and things like that. Those things would rather understandably be something that easily would upset people and could have negative consequences (to one extent or another; someone posting a negative review on Steam is a negative consequence that could arise), particularly when taken out of context or blown out of proportion (e.g. a random player deliberately sets out to do something bad to the Prophet Muhammad, posts the results on Reddit (where the CK2 subreddit isn't moderated by Paradox and they thus aren't guaranteed to be able to get it removed (like they could do with something bad posted on the PDS forums)), and some newspaper picks it up and writes an article with the headline "CK2's latest expansion lets you do [bad thing] to the Prophet Muhammad!"), so the prudent course of action would be to avoid those issues by simply not having him alive during the game.


As for the examples you listed of other bad things already in the game, they're rather different:

- The "Mad Arab" example is something I've not seen before (or at least not something I've noticed; I don't believe I've ever had a GHW against Muslims in my games, since most of my pagan reformations have been Norse ones I carried out myself and I didn't have any interest in attacking Muslim areas of the map with GHWs in those games) and also seems like something that's being said in-character by the attacker. Maybe it could be reworded a bit, though, to make it clear(er) that it is the Fylkir/whatever that's using that wording (or reworded to not include that line at all), in case someone doesn't like it.

- You can convert any county away from/to any religion/culture in the game (and might not be 100 % successful, considering minorities aren't really portrayed), and with the exception of the holders of a few titles that always exist (e.g. the Papacy (which is used for maintenance stuff) and various mercs (some of which I believe are Muslim, by the way)) all faiths can be eradicated, so it isn't something that's directly targeting the Muslim religions. Sure, someone could be upset by the specific scenario you mentioned, but I'd argue that it is less likely to upset people than anything directly involving the Prophet Muhammad.

- Having a distant descendant of the Prophet Muhammad (that, aside from the characters that are alive at any given start, will be completely fictional characters to begin with) do something bad (or have something bad happen to them, or have/get bad traits, or whatever) is a bit different from having him do something bad (or be the victim of something bad), considering that they're not regarded in the same way. Again, someone could be upset by it, but as with the above example I'd say it is less likely to upset people than something than could happen in the Prophet Muhammad was in the game and something bad happened to him/he did something bad/etc.
 
Smaller idea:
Court mechanics
I would like more events and decisions revolving around the court.

More tournaments (once per lifetime? I think not!)

Troubadours (who will know of my heroism if no one sings about my deeds?)

Advisor intrique (common historical practice was to blame the advisor! More often court intrique were against the man carrying out the policy rather than against the ruler himself)

Damsels and knights (knight lodge, numerous orders (garter, golden fleece and so on)

More fleshed out regency (the regent was usually de facto ruler and I think that it should be reflected ingame, allowing the regent to declare war and grant titles and everything that a ruler can do, with intriques of the vassals to replace a regent when they get a suspicion he`s abusing power)

Heiresses (females holding power were kind of a rarity. What usually happened after the death of heirless ruler was that the council picked a husband for one daughter or another and chose him as the king)


I would also like to see a rework of de iure capital so that it`s tied to a dynasty. I think it`s uncosmetic to see Abbasids in Damascus instead of Bagdad, Wessex dynasty in London instead of, well, Wessex, Andalusian Umayyds in Toledo instead of Qurtubah, not mentioning various Italian families all strugling to move to Pavia once they get hold of the kingdom of Italia, and most annoyingly the kaisers all aching for Aachen.
What I propose is that each dynasty would get a "stronghold" in the county that`s tied to them which they would get to improve somehow like the villa of the republic families and when they manage to usurp their liege, they get to chose whether to hold court in their traditional dynastic stronghold or move in to the shinier palace of the ousted dynasty (I`m looking at you, Capets).

I think this would dephen the dynastic RPing which is pivotal for CK2.
 
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Damsel and knights... Can we have a Romantic DLC? I'd love it, good roleplay.

Along those lines, I was thinking I'd like a "chivalry" DLC that added orders of knighthood, fleshed-out tourneys, troubadours, courtly love, and the like. Maybe even a system to determine how good a knight your character is — mainly based on their martial ability, with their courtliness a secondary contributor — that has other characters react accordingly depending on whether they are nobility or clergy. Chivalry was a major element of High and Late Medieval culture and a key component of the warrior class' identity, so I find it a pity that it is mostly absent from the game.

Other than that, what I'd want most is a DLC that reworked Islam and the Muslim world at large, maybe also Orthodox Christianity while they're at it. Currently that's a huge and central part of the map, but rulers there enjoy bare bones mechanics compared to Catholics and pagans.
 
Depicting the Prophet Muhammad's face is simply Not Done

Indeed, but that's not the issue.

that leaves the rather obvious issue that something bad (torture, mutilation, etc.) could be done to him while he was alive (which wouldn't be easy to block completely), that something bad could be done as him (e.g. joining the Devil Worshippers or converting to another religion) by the player or AI (which would be hard to completely block), that he could pick up (objectively or subjectively) bad traits/modifiers, and things like that

It's already possible to shield a character from certain traits, plots and modifiers, as well as to guide the AI to not join certain societies or have insane Plot Power protection.

Maybe it could be reworded a bit,

Why? There is a grand total of zero Muslim CK2 players that complained about it. Again: the Muslim community knows what the difference is between cheap offense and a historically-minded video game.

all faiths can be eradicated

Not totally actually, as holy sites remain and allow conversion. Islam is the only faith however where you get its "destruction" as part of a DLC's feature (Holy Fury's Outremer), complete with the abolition of the sacred caliphal offices and a bloodline commemorating your character has "destroyed the Muslim faiths". Ah, there is also a fairly well-known artwork of Mecca - and the holy Kaaba - burning in flames. Guess what? Zero negative press, again.

considering that they're not regarded in the same way

They are regarded quite highly in any case - it's literally considered a holy bloodline. Anyway, my point is that Paradox hasn't received any criticism for it.
 
Additional interface improvements:

- Inbreeding risk for marriages between relatives (distant or otherwise) on the marriage arrangement tab;
- Custom tags for characters of special interest

How inbreeding works in the game is wrong though.
 
Some of these things have already been mentioned. But to start with I wish to say that an expanded map or an even earlier starting date isn't one of my suggestions. The first one because the game is already laggy enough for me even though my PC isn't that bad, and the second is because every new change would have to be adapted to yet another time-line. Would take too much time for the devs to manage all these time-lines.

So my suggestions are as thus the following:

1. Dynamic game. Right now the game is kinda stale. Events should have more of a global impact. Right now the unlocking of Crusades past year 900 if something happens is one such example. More on Dynamic game here and I strongly suggest reading especially this one if choosing to press any of the following links: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...orld-much-like-the-chinese-interface.1122007/

2. The introduction of Marquises and having Vassal AI go to war in defense of their own territories. This is about border policy in foreign wars. Read more here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/foreign-policy-in-military-affairs.1147111/

3. A revised education system where heirs cannot get more than +6 [the second best option] unless they attend a university. Or unless you are quick, shrewd or genius. Universities can already be built as a holding. And a professor title could be granted to characters with high learning or have scholar, erudite, theologian, mystic or any other intriguing trait. These are all part of an international college of professors. You can get guest-professors who offer to research for you in your universities or you can send professors abroad. You can get request from foreign rulers to have their heirs study in your university. Or you can send yours to a foreign one, choosing between whether you want to study War and strategy, administration or philosophy and theology. Then there's events related to this such as making friends, lovers, rivals, diplomatic conflicts when your drunkard heir beat up a foreign crown prince etc. More on this here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-schooling-system-universities.1109583/

4. Merchant guilds and the portrayal of organisations such as the Hanseatic league better where Mayors economy is largely based on keeping the Merchant Guilds in check [factions] and managing the relationship with their league. From a player based scenario, this mainly effects Merchant Republics. But it also allows for more events with your Mayor vassals as a feudal ruler as well. This isn't the greatest example, but here I made an example of how a Merchant Republic could work if it was made as a society: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/merchant-guild.1116717/

5. Abdicating the throne. More of a flavor event to create a more realistic aspect. How it should be tweaked to fit the game is another question though. Read more here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/abdicating-the-throne.1143054/

6. Playing as someone else in your dynasty. This is related to the Crusader Kings event in Holy Fury where you can choose to play as the guy whom you fought for. Generally I sometimes would like to quit being the Emperor within my own empire and just play as a Vassal instead. Or even a guy who's a vassal in another realm, but of my dynasty. I think this should be allowed under some circumstances. Either that it disables achievements or that there's a cooldown period / limit how many times I can do it per game. It's mainly for player reasons though when one feels as if they want to do something else within their campaign.

7. Viewing previous rulers in their prime to remember your achievements. This link https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ewing-previous-rulers-in-their-prime.1148441/ provides a suggestion about bloodline portraits, but generally a different interface to view all of my great rulers and some main summaries from the log would be nice. I.e This guy formed the first kingdom, this guy formed the first empire, this guy expanded the most within the realm, this guy defended against a crusade, this guy won a great holy war etc.
 
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3. A revised education system where heirs cannot get more than +6 [the second best option] unless they attend a university. Or unless you are quick of shrewd. Universities can already be built as a holding. And a professor title could be granted to characters with high learning or have scholar, erudite, theologian, mystic or any other intriguing trait. These are all part of an international college of professors. You can get guest-professors who offer to research for you in your universities or you can send professors abroad. You can get request from foreign rulers to have their heirs study in your university. Or you can send yours to a foreign one, choosing between whether you want to study War and strategy, administration or philosophy and theology. Then there's events related to this such as making friends, lovers, rivals, diplomatic conflicts when your drunkard heir beat up a foreign crown prince etc. More on this here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-schooling-system-universities.1109583/

I don't like this idea. It strikes me as a terribly modern view of how universities work and what they're for. Medieval and early modern universities were institutions run by the clergy, primarily for the training of new members. Medieval nobility may have sent younger sons they intended to pursue a career in the Church, but the university curriculum did not include the martial training that defined the secular aristocracy and therefore would not have been a good place to send heirs.
 
I don't like this idea. It strikes me as a terribly modern view of how universities work and what they're for. Medieval and early modern universities were institutions run by the clergy, primarily for the training of new members. Medieval nobility may have sent younger sons they intended to pursue a career in the Church, but the university curriculum did not include the martial training that defined the secular aristocracy and therefore would not have been a good place to send heirs.

No, they were also for studying judicial, medical, phisophical and literary subjects, besides theological ones.
 
No, they were also for studying judicial, medical, phisophical and literary subjects, besides theological ones.
Which implies it should be one of several education options for higher level skills. Learning better diplomacy and learning from a medieval university makes sense. Learning martial or intrigue does not. It would also depend on the region, as not all places have the same clerical and university traditions.
 
No, they were also for studying judicial, medical, phisophical and literary subjects, besides theological ones.
Yes, and...? Medieval clergymen did a lot more than preach and argue about what angel sweat tastes like. Learning about those disciplines made perfect sense for those who wished to be bishops, deacons, or even just clerks.

Of course, not everyone who went to university ended up a priest, but the fact remains their purpose wasn't to train future lords, and the traits valued most by the nobility were not the ones cultivated in universities.
 
It's already possible to shield a character from certain traits, plots and modifiers, as well as to guide the AI to not join certain societies or have insane Plot Power protection.

Some things are rather straightforward to block (e.g. DW joining), sure, but certain things would be a mess to track down and block, particularly if you want to cover a lot of unlikely but possible scenarios (e.g. if the Prophet Muhammad ended up unlanded in someone's court and there are certain places you really don't want him to be chosen as a random_courtier, you have to hunt down those specific random_courtier scopes and fix them, which isn't as straightforward). Even if you could hunt down everything and fix it, it would be a lot of work and rather messy, and since missing something could be bad the simple solution of "Don't add the Prophet Muhammad as a living character" would seem to be rather attractive.

Why? There is a grand total of zero Muslim CK2 players that complained about it. Again: the Muslim community knows what the difference is between cheap offense and a historically-minded video game.

Since you brought it up as an example of something that could be considered a bad thing and it would be fairly straightforward to change the description (compared to hunting down all events/decisions/etc. that do bad things), I thought that "Yeah, sure, rewording that might be good." was something you were on board with, but apparently not.

Not totally actually, as holy sites remain and allow conversion. Islam is the only faith however where you get its "destruction" as part of a DLC's feature (Holy Fury's Outremer), complete with the abolition of the sacred caliphal offices and a bloodline commemorating your character has "destroyed the Muslim faiths".

I hadn't looked closely at that particular decision (which actually is a patch decision, not a DLC one), but now that I have taken a look at it I would say that the bloodline description is in-character and that the loss of the caliphates is because the current caliphs (if any) are viewed as having lost their authority with the loss of Mecca-Medina(-Jerusalem) and all the land nearby, with the latter bit supported by the fact that the caliphates can be recreated if you control Mecca and Medina (which isn't strictly required without Outremer having been founded; it merely is one of several possible prerequisites in that case).

Ah, there is also a fairly well-known artwork of Mecca - and the holy Kaaba - burning in flames. Guess what? Zero negative press, again.

Sure, that exists (along with a similar picture for Rome). I'd not say that that makes adding a living Prophet Muhammad any less of a bad idea.

They are regarded quite highly in any case - it's literally considered a holy bloodline. Anyway, my point is that Paradox hasn't received any criticism for it.

There are degrees of holiness, and I rather think that people would view the Prophet Muhammad portrayed badly rather differently from his many generations removed descendants (that might be fictional to begin with).


Anyway, since earlier start dates have been confirmed to not be on the table, the situation isn't going to come up...
 
Religious freedom DLC:
with this DLC you can set your nation to be open for other religions which will be amazing for your economy and will allow you to have advisors from other religions but it can also cause unrest, you also have the ability to go all out spanish inquisition, like em policy decisions to be open, semi-open, closed or actifly hunting apostates and herretics. this would be awesome as there were a few kingdoms in the middle ages who did all of these things, especially the open nations became very rich and were technologically ahead of the time thanks to their contacts.

bloodlines:
create minor bloodlines for like winning major battles, being in a crusade and such. these bloodlines are limited to 1-2 generations as they are just minor and can go away due to a son doing the wrong stuff like excecuting prisoners or such or get better by being better then their ancestor

societies:
why not add the free masons, knight orders and those things to societies, would make things more dynamic and increases the choices you can make.
 
Religious freedom DLC:
with this DLC you can set your nation to be open for other religions which will be amazing for your economy and will allow you to have advisors from other religions

It's already possible for pagans with the religious tax doctrine and muslims.