If the UK loses the Battle of Britain where would the US concentrate its troops?

[Andre Bolkonsky]

It is strange that you forgot those great men at the American financial institutions even though you mentioned that never ever owed so much to so few

You want me to list the corporate support of the Third Reich, including Standard Oil's investments that helped put Concentration Camps on the map?

Or would you prefer I start with the fact that George H.W. Bush's father, Prescott Bush, was brought up on charges of treason for his banking relationship with Fritz Thyssen?

There are MANY powerful people in both the United States, the United Kingdom, and countries around the world who wanted Hitler to win. It is one of the reasons the Nazis were let off so lightly at the end of the war and by the end of ten years all was forgiven. The only symbolic prisoner left was the shell of Rudolph Hess in Spandau Prison. The rest of the world resumed business as usual.

I, however, cannot forget the Shoah and all it represents.

 

[Easy-Kill]

Maybe you are hoping somebody will say 'Finland'. The USA will station it's troops in Finland!

 

[Avernite]

Maybe you are hoping somebody will say 'Finland'. The USA will station it's troops in Finland!

I suppose this presupposes Petsamo is Finnish in this timeline?

 

[Easy-Kill]

I suppose this presupposes Petsamo is Finnish in this timeline?

Just imagine what the Finns could have achieved with American supplies ... Or rather imagine what the USA could have achieved with the Finnish Wundersoldaten!

 

[Jopa79]

Thank God for Churchill, thank God for R.J. Mitchell, thank God for Arthur Rowledge and the Rolls Royce PV-12 'Merlin' engine, and thank God for all those brave actors flying those Spitfires under the command of Michael Caine's voice who won the Battle of Britian. Truly, never have so many owed so much to so few.

This might be more important than many thinks, often left for lesser observation.

 

[Jopa79]

Just imagine what the Finns could have achieved with American supplies ... Or rather imagine what the USA could have achieved with the Finnish Wundersoldaten!

Maybe too much beer for you tonight?

 

[Gil galad]

The Germans aren't a seafaring people. That's all I will say.

 

[mccarty.geoff]

There is hope for Finland after all.

 

[Drakken]

In fact, if I'm not mistaken, in 1940 Newfoundland was still british territory.

Separate Dominion since 1907, self-governing with a status equal to Canada.

 

[Ming]

Separate Dominion since 1907, self-governing with a status equal to Canada.

Thanks, I've learned something.


Newfoundland wasnt self-governing during the war. My confusion was due to my ignorance that it was a temporary (and voluntary) situation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_Commission_of_Government

 

[Kenttäharmaa]

Newfoundland wasnt self-governing during the war. My confusion was due to my ignorance that it was a temporary (and voluntary) situation.

This is correct. The Depression hit Newfoundland hard, and they reverted to direct British control, leaving Dominion status a mere formality until they eventually joined Canada as another province.

 

[Avernite]

Ah yes, a Europe that would have remained white, Eurocentric and morally traditional. Such a long night indeed. Heavens forbid, we might even be watching some German films instead of American ones.

Nazism wasn't even traditional, and their ways to preserve 'whiteness' and 'eurocentricity' were predicated on genocide and oppression of all the 'whites' in their clutches too. So yes, a long night indeed.

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

Ah yes, a Europe that would have remained white, Eurocentric and morally traditional. Such a long night indeed. Heavens forbid, we might even be watching some German films instead of American ones.

It's quite questionable that Nazi victory would have reinforced the morally traditional in Europe. For example they were, unwittingly or not, working to undermine the family unit with their policies, and that's the core of traditional values. Or if you were talking about a subsequent post Nazi period, I don't think people would have been too enamoured with unqestioning top down morality in it, just like they weren't in our timeline.

You, uh, might also want to contrast some Nazi activities with Europe's traditional (Christian) moral ideals.

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

Answering the OP

in my opinion we would have a setup like in 1984.

The US cant land on the European mainland before the Soviets overun Germany but can snatch liberate the British Isles before them with whatever German troops left there maybe even surrendering to the US.

I can see them also have a bridgehead in Italy or southern France supplied from Africa with maybe an afterwar situation like in Korea.

All speculation of course.

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

Furthermore, I do not see how the Nazis undermined the family unit with their policies, unless you mean by marching their men and boys to war, which is a moot argument as that can be said of any nation and ideology at war.

On the contrary, the Nazis emphasised motherhood and family. Ironically with a German victory in WW2, a number of European populations might now be larger thanks to state-sponsored fertility and motherhood campaigns.

Nazism wasn't an ideology at war, it was a ideology of war. Soldier was the pinnacle of manhood and in more general sense the man was expected to be a servant of the state with heavy responisibilities that would take him away from his family. Meanwhile, it seems like none of the other participants in the family unit were particular fans of the Nazi ideal of it: Women sought escape from their families in recuperation centers while children got away from their families by joining BDM and HJ—where they were taught to snitch on their families and thus replacing the loyality to one's family with one towards the state.

Then you have the nutty natalism of Nazis, ranging from itself commendable effort to rehabilitate single motherhood, to tolerance or downright encouragement of extramarital or premarital affairs (down to encouraging the 14-18 year old girls of BDM to engage in such).

All in all, whatever they may have said is one thing, what they actually went for was a system that replaces the familiy unit with the state as the mother and the father.

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

Answering the OP

in my opinion we would have a setup like in 1984.

The US cant land on the European mainland before the Soviets overun Germany but can snatch liberate the British Isles before them with whatever German troops left there maybe even surrendering to the US.

I can see them also have a bridgehead in Italy or southern France supplied from Africa with maybe an afterwar situation like in Korea.

All speculation of course.

I am uncertain Russia could overrun a united and industrialized Western Europe without Britain to keep the Murmansk/Archangel route viable. Without Western material - especially trucks, radios and Spam - Russia will not win. It seems to me that Germany would take the logical step and reorganize during '41 and '42. Let I.G. Farben and Krupps sort out the industrial logistics and begin sucking fuel out of the Middle East. Heydrich and Mueller would work out internal security because controlling Britain will be a nightmare for the Germans. RSHA will plunder Europe and turn the money over to the Party Chairman, Martin Bormann, who would control Europe through an iron control of the banking system. And Goebbels will tell the world how the new Europe basks in this new era of peace while showing pictures of conquered peoples casting laurels and flowers at the feet of Germans. Meanwhile, the Wehrmacht would arm and train for an eventual Push to the East while fortifying the coastlines. The Luftwaffe would get buff on a steady supply of aviation fuel. The Kreigsmarine would prepare to harass American shipping at the drop of a hat. And Haushoffer's AO would continue creating fifth columnists and strong Nazi enclaves for future expansion at an alarming rate. Germany crosses the border of Russia the moment the rasputista ends during the summer of '43 highly mechanized and well provisioned. Good luck, Stalin. You'll need it.

As you said, all speculation of course, but that is how I see it IF Britain fell.

 

[Graf Zeppelin]

I am uncertain Russia could overrun a united and industrialized Western Europe without Britain to keep the Murmansk/Archangel route viable. Without Western material - especially trucks, radios and Spam - Russia will not win. It seems to me that Germany would take the logical step and reorganize during '41 and '42. Let I.G. Farben and Krupps sort out the industrial logistics and begin sucking fuel out of the Middle East. Heydrich and Mueller would work out internal security because controlling Britain will be a nightmare for the Germans. RSHA will plunder Europe and turn the money over to the Party Chairman, Martin Bormann, who would control Europe through an iron control of the banking system. And Goebbels will tell the world how the new Europe basks in this new era of peace while showing pictures of conquered peoples casting laurels and flowers at the feet of Germans. Meanwhile, the Wehrmacht would arm and train for an eventual Push to the East while fortifying the coastlines. The Luftwaffe would get buff on a steady supply of aviation fuel. The Kreigsmarine would prepare to harass American shipping at the drop of a hat. And Haushoffer's AO would continue creating fifth columnists and strong Nazi enclaves for future expansion at an alarming rate. Germany crosses the border of Russia the moment the rasputista ends during the summer of '43 highly mechanized and well provisioned. Good luck, Stalin. You'll need it.

As you said, all speculation of course, but that is how I see it IF Britain fell.

Fair enough but I see the Soviets vastly superior to Germany and think they would have won without any aid at all. That said in this scenario I assume they get supplied by the US.

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

Nazism wasn't an ideology at war, it was a ideology of war.

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[Kenttäharmaa]

Nazism wasn't an ideology at war, it was a ideology of war.

Once the war would have been won and living space in the East attained, other functions in society would have become increasingly relevant. I'm sure the glorification of militarism wouldn't have disappeared, but Germany would have had its hands full for decades, if not centuries in digesting and developing her newly acquired territories. That being said, post-war conflicts, particularly against natives in European colonies, would likely have occurred. Point being however, there'd be less emphasis on "creating soldiers for the Fatherland" than during the brief time of the Third Reich in our history.

I am uncertain Russia could overrun a united and industrialized Western Europe without Britain to keep the Murmansk/Archangel route viable. Without Western material - especially trucks, radios and Spam - Russia will not win.

With this I agree. AFAIK Russia came close to economic collapse even in OTL, in 1942, and would have lost the war without the exorbatant amount of lend-lease they received from the Americans. By 1943 they were also suffering from manpower shortages. It's also worth remembering that Russia did collapse under the stress of war not long before, in 1917.

 

[bz249]

Fair enough but I see the Soviets vastly superior to Germany and think they would have won without any aid at all. That said in this scenario I assume they get supplied by the US.

Look at the population pyramid of 1946.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia

They were pretty close to run out of men with 2 legs/arms IRL which is a much more favorable scenario than this one (for one thing there is no need to rush for the oil on the side of the Germans).

If war happens at all.