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I dont get it as the potential is still amazing.

What is interesting to add imo..Internal politics,adding ground combat immersion.More monster types,leviathans.Bio races.More planet types.Space religion.

What is not interesting and starting to give EU4 bloat..More filling buckets mechanics like rifts,dlc with flashy names just adding buildings giving bonus.Lower art budget.
 
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I dont get it as the potential is still amazing.

What is interesting to add imo..Internal politics,adding ground combat immersion.More monster types,leviathans.Bio races.More planet types.Space religion.

What is not interesting and starting to give EU4 bloat..More filling buckets mechanics like rifts,dlc with flashy names just adding buildings giving bonus.Lower art budget.

I can not follow you exactly but i agree stat changes and numerical magic is not really engaging.
As my OP states i'm talking about mechanical changes on the game flow and real new interactions and reworks.
The hyper-lane gateways for example where such a change and the systems of handling vassals.
 
But please let me know if you're really hyped for Storms and the other stuff (Space Fauna and Museums).
Not sure if my opinion matter, as I am ex-player. Storms nor Space Fauna nor Museums would not make me return to the game. They rather make me think I'm not losing anything.
 
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Not sure if my opinion matter, as I am ex-player. Storms nor Space Fauna nor Museums would not make me return to the game. They rather make me think I'm not losing anything.

Machine Age has some legit fun additions which do change gameplay.

Astral Rifts grew on me.

Some of the new mods like WP's planet view make the game visually interesting.

There is stuff to tickle my fancy at least.
 
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Machine Age has some legit fun additions which do change gameplay.

Astral Rifts grew on me.

Some of the new mods like WP's planet view make the game visually interesting.

There is stuff to tickle my fancy at least.

I keep thinking about how I only really came back to Stellaris as my main paid game after the tech adjustments. Like I never fully gave up on poking it, but once they made the macro change and pacing marks and fitness tests started showing up again (Khan, War In Heaven, Grey Tempest) instead of being wiped out before I could even encounter them, I was able to get full playthroughs out of the system. Full playthroughs as in, 'I am not certain I'll win because I am so far ahead at this point', and it being mostly a matter of clicks in sequence, not any real choices or intrigue or doubt. Houserules guided by story idea helped a ton with that too.

So that's where I'm coming from and why some of these DLCs interest me despite not being major overhauls, reworks or introductions (although Storms and Fauna seem like mid-major introductions of something new, although we'll see just how much). I'm also not too proud to admit that I enjoy the initial social phase of discovering meta and what works and what doesn't, and seeing ideas deployed - even if I am not going to play the game like that, its nice to be aware of the potential or a facet of it that works for yourself, and also watching everyone geek out about new powerful things is charming. That shared and also experienced on my own keep the game lively to me, even if I pine with the chorus for Internal Politics or other most requested DLC items. I'm easy to please with new stuff and not very picky or singleminded in vision, which is constantly undermined by the new stuff having to deal with this UI.
 
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But please let me know if you're really hyped for Storms and the other stuff (Space Fauna and Museums).

I wouldn’t say I’m really hyped for it (tbh most of the time the custodian updates are more exciting to me than DLC) but I’m also not against it. Storms and fauna seem like fun small additions that add to the story of the galaxy. They’re not going to be revolutionary but there’s a place for the smaller content packs alongside the main updates.
 
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I'm not the only one that looks at Steamdb then and I don't think its wrong to part form an opinion. I also disagree with others that state for a single player game it's irrelevant, on Steam, passive marketing and friend networks work very well at advising you of other peoples status. So I think its a bit indicative but in part to do with rapid onset of high inflation of western countries in the world and many people have lost a lot of disposable income, if they haven't changed jobs or lost them. I don't mean people stopped playing games but I mean that people have become more mindful of their wallets. Certainly the UK is in a different position to even 2 years ago for many people of working age. Maybe there's figures out there that explain how gaming purchases have dwindled in general, I'm not sure.

Anyway, I think The Machine Age was "the" epic DLC for Stellaris and don't think it was fair that its high UC account was half that of e.g. Nemesis. What's to blame? Marketing? The tail end of a pandemic with people being habitually in their houses still? I dunno but I think this is just unfortunate rather than a reflection of any great failing. I get why people arn't excited for Cosmic Storms, a mostly visual mechanic with some annoying radius of damage to avoid, if you wanted to see it as simply as that. I mean without playing it, someone cynical could take that perspective but I think its going to be more interesting than that, the fact storms last a good amount of time will create variance for people that insist on optimising - as is tradition amongst many players. In a game where the micromanagement has been made easier with designations and auto build, we do have that option to take away some planetary management but not all do. I just hope it plays nice in the game and the AI, never mind me and feels fun rather than impeding on a game, they play test though so I'm sure that's been factored in to have a good "feel".
 
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I will eventually get this dlc too.
Because I like stellaris as a concept, but I'm a psicopath that more than playing around the storms will be more interested in watching how they made the AI behave around storms...


I think, and it is my opinion, that expectation become a slow poison that eventually remove all the pleasure from something And I think OP stellaris experience is ruined by its idea of what it could be, but keep fail to reach its expectation.
 
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But please let me know if you're really hyped for Storms and the other stuff (Space Fauna and Museums).
I am currently on a hiatus from playing all kinds of video games due to real-life stuff, but Machine Age got me insanely hyped. I want to try it so, so badly. Cosmic Storms only elicit a long, drawn-out yawn from me. The only thing they could have made it worse would be to introduce a "stormium" resource for more buckets to fill. The Museum is intriguing, but we know nothing about it yet.

That being said, reworks and updates are the things that propel my interest in the game, far more than DLC. It is super fun to figure out things and see changes so the game is familiar but not too familiar, and all that stuff. Things like the hyperplanes-only rework, the transition from tiles to jobs, or the overhaul of vassals with Overlord were tremendous moments. The tech rework and the leader rework were not as big but still felt significant enough. The problem is, things have been too quiet on that front for a long time, with no information about the next custodian's plans. Let's see what Vela has in store for us.
 
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Personally I feel like it's time for Stellaris to wind down and for Stellaris 2 to be drawn up in the background.
Stellaris has done a good job forging itself an Identity and has had a great life but I feel it's time to take what's been learnt and start afresh with a better foundation.
That doesn't mean no more DLC, just that maybe season 9 should maybe be the last one and have the Custodians working on polishing it up in place of season 10 for Stellaris 2 in place of season 11
 
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That's quite an interesting insight. I guess that the way to avoid that would be to add ground troop slots to already useful ships' hulls, rather than replace their weapon slots with ground troop slots (and thus, decreasing their combat efficiency).
Problem there is if it doesn't take up a slot, it just becomes a different type of bombardment that all your ships end up doing. I can also see it then having issues with choosing the army type and species. I guess the cost works out as there's risk of losing it with the ship in combat but you wont lose it in ground combat.
 
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I think, and it is my opinion, that expectation become a slow poison that eventually remove all the pleasure from something And I think OP stellaris experience is ruined by its idea of what it could be, but keep fail to reach its expectation.

It is on one side, but I also played too much of it, and at one point, the curtains were drawn back, and I realized the whole gameplay fundamentals are too simplistic, which disappoints me tremendously. The core concept of the game revolves around the abysmal snowball of fleet power, and all other aspects of the game are secondary, feeding into this. And the cherry on top is the combat and military gameplay, which, on both a tactical and strategic level, is laughably bad and far too simplistic.

It just hits you when you've had fun experimenting with empires and different gimmicks, and then you realize all you're doing is extending or shortening the hoops you jump through to reach military dominance in one way or another. It's just sad in general. Not even the potential was reached in terms of new content—the fundamentals for 8 years were just... dull.

Yes, that is definitely one big part of my personal disappointment with the new DLC and season pass decisions, as they totally miss the mark in addressing the flaws I see.

P.S. You can try to debate me on this, but I'm certain there’s no way you can find a mechanic in the game that isn’t somehow connected to military snowballing.
 
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I dont get it as the potential is still amazing.

Honestly that's part of my frustration.

There are a bunch of subsystems which feel like they're on the way towards greatness, and then they're abandoned.
 
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It is on one side, but I also played too much of it, and at one point, the curtains were drawn back, and I realized the whole gameplay fundamentals are too simplistic, which disappoints me tremendously. The core concept of the game revolves around the abysmal snowball of fleet power, and all other aspects of the game are secondary, feeding into this. And the cherry on top is the combat and military gameplay, which, on both a tactical and strategic level, is laughably bad and far too simplistic.

It just hits you when you've had fun experimenting with empires and different gimmicks, and then you realize all you're doing is extending or shortening the hoops you jump through to reach military dominance in one way or another. It's just sad in general. Not even the potential was reached in terms of new content—the fundamentals for 8 years were just... dull.

Yes, that is definitely one big part of my personal disappointment with the new DLC and season pass decisions, as they totally miss the mark in addressing the flaws I see.

P.S. You can try to debate me on this, but I'm certain there’s no way you can find a mechanic in the game that isn’t somehow connected to military snowballing.
I mean, you're not wrong on multiple accounts here, although you'd handily lose a bet on finding exceptions to it and I'd feel bad pocketing the price of the Storms DLC with such an easy layup (Cosmogenesis doesn't rely on Fleet Power to work and get away with avoiding the latter parts of the game entirely).

However, my question to you is kinda philosophical - Have you ever tried to get as far as you could by purposefully neglecting that facet of the game and how does that work? Often enough, some of these summary gripes about what works seem to be 'I solved the game and there's nothing to do now until the game forces me to resolve it with changes'. I can't account for why 'How would I do X if I couldn't do Y along the way' is a fascinating question for myself and not for you, but a small hunch of mine is that players themselves are supposed to figure some of this out for themselves once they've reached a comfort level with the game and not wait around for the devs to throw a new rake in your path or make the current rakes better rakes.

Some of this is all for nothing if the game system mechanics also don't please, or the overall game system is overwhelming without meaning or importance, or the UI introduces a new cooldown counter you can only see in one place in the UI completely unrelated to the decision to start cooldown, but...

It is kinda baffling to socially hang around a game for 8 years that likely isn't gonna get shored up in particular detail to make fleet power less of a path of least resistance in all the ways it is, and not even be interested in the extreme contra nullifier to the thesis and making it work, out of spite almost. But that's the diagnostician POV and its really hard to impart that upon others.
 
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Personally I feel like it's time for Stellaris to wind down and for Stellaris 2 to be drawn up in the background.
It's highly likely Stellaris 2 is already in development, especially given the age of the game. Vic 3 was in development for eight years (some of that was pre-production and design work) and I think their other games are closer to 4-6. We're not too far from the ten year anniversary of Stellaris.

The rest of the company has shifted to the new Jomini engine which would allow for a lot of the modern enhancements people have been asking for in Stellaris - like customizable hotkeys, better UI scaling, more moddable UI, more feature sharing between teams, etc. After Project Caesar releases, only HoI IV and Stellaris will still be running on the old engine, and I wouldn't be surprised if HoI V was also in development.

Just remember the base game experience is not going to be the existing game + all DLC. You should set your expectations more in-line with CK2 -> CK3 base game.

When Eladrin took over as Game Director in 2022, grekulf said they stepped down so they could work on an unannounced project, which I think is still unannounced? His LinkedIn shows he's still at Paradox (though it could also be out of date).
 
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The core concept of the game revolves around the abysmal snowball of fleet power, and all other aspects of the game are secondary

In some way or another, you may feel that your fleet power is all that matter, in one way or another, you always need to have a bigger fleet power of everybody else or be vassal of someone with more fleet power, or a federation with more fleet power. But if you think about it, you will notice that what realy only matter is the number of pops you have, as the number of pops translate directly in economic power, and with it you can build the fleet, that is needed to have more pops, either by conquest or giving you time to grow/build more pops. Then you notice that the only thing that realy matter is tech, because it increase the efficency of your pops and your alloys spending and naval capacity in fleet power, so everything you do you need tech.

It's not a problem of "with this I do everything", it's that you need to do everything. You need pops, you need tech, you need fleet power. Whatever you do, you will feed on all of them or feel useless. Only with the last few updates we had some different gameplay loop that moved away slightly from the number of pops hegemony.

I don't feel the system is "simple", I feel it's forced. You need to have everything, tech, unity, pops, fleet power (some way or another /by group ) otherwise you lose it all.
 
This is actually one of the reason I had expectation for a non-limitless market, so an empire could specialize in producing a resource, and live off the existence of other empires economy/market. And I suffer because the market is limitless and the only resource you actually need are alloys and energy, everything else should be at +0.
 
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I mean, you're not wrong on multiple accounts here, although you'd handily lose a bet on finding exceptions to it and I'd feel bad pocketing the price of the Storms DLC with such an easy layup (Cosmogenesis doesn't rely on Fleet Power to work and get away with avoiding the latter parts of the game entirely).

However, my question to you is kinda philosophical - Have you ever tried to get as far as you could by purposefully neglecting that facet of the game and how does that work? Often enough, some of these summary gripes about what works seem to be 'I solved the game and there's nothing to do now until the game forces me to resolve it with changes'. I can't account for why 'How would I do X if I couldn't do Y along the way' is a fascinating question for myself and not for you, but a small hunch of mine is that players themselves are supposed to figure some of this out for themselves once they've reached a comfort level with the game and not wait around for the devs to throw a new rake in your path or make the current rakes better rakes.

Some of this is all for nothing if the game system mechanics also don't please, or the overall game system is overwhelming without meaning or importance, or the UI introduces a new cooldown counter you can only see in one place in the UI completely unrelated to the decision to start cooldown, but...

It is kinda baffling to socially hang around a game for 8 years that likely isn't gonna get shored up in particular detail to make fleet power less of a path of least resistance in all the ways it is, and not even be interested in the extreme contra nullifier to the thesis and making it work, out of spite almost. But that's the diagnostician POV and its really hard to impart that upon others.

Cosmogenesis buffs fleet power again by unlocking more or better ways to increase it, and ultimately it heavily relies on fleet power to be successful. You can try to shoehorn your way to victory by playing diplomatically, but that’s just borrowing fleet power from other AIs to protect you. Again, it's all centered around the pivot point of limitless scaling fleet power.

I often purposely tried to avoid a certain playstyle just to see how far I could get with one arm tied behind my back, only to find myself scaling my endless doomstack of fleet power, coming from another source. This is what I meant when I wrote that the curtain was drawn back, the smoke vanished, and the mirrors shattered.

Overall, I really like the concept and the flavor the game provides, and how much fun it is to play multiplayer with friends. The empire management and the amount of it is really neat and engaging, but it all comes crumbling down when warfare starts. The fleet power arms race takes over the game and sucks the fun out of it. That’s why I stuck around so long—because I like the concept and many aspects of it, but the fundamentals are just rotten from my point of view.


In some way or another, you may feel that your fleet power is all that matter, in one way or another, you always need to have a bigger fleet power of everybody else or be vassal of someone with more fleet power, or a federation with more fleet power. But if you think about it, you will notice that what realy only matter is the number of pops you have, as the number of pops translate directly in economic power, and with it you can build the fleet, that is needed to have more pops, either by conquest or giving you time to grow/build more pops. Then you notice that the only thing that realy matter is tech, because it increase the efficency of your pops and your alloys spending and naval capacity in fleet power, so everything you do you need tech.

It's not a problem of "with this I do everything", it's that you need to do everything. You need pops, you need tech, you need fleet power. Whatever you do, you will feed on all of them or feel useless. Only with the last few updates we had some different gameplay loop that moved away slightly from the number of pops hegemony.

I don't feel the system is "simple", I feel it's forced. You need to have everything, tech, unity, pops, fleet power (some way or another /by group ) otherwise you lose it all.

I understand your perspective, but tech is not the only way to endlessly scale your fleet power. You can even scale it by not having many pops. You can play diplomatically and just "borrow" fleet power from vassals and scale that way. The only really important thing is, if you want to be successful at the game, stay alive, or have something to do, you need some sort of way to scale your fleet power—that’s what matters. Whether you reach it by just making more alloys with pops, making more tech with pops, or making friends through diplomacy, or any other conceivable hoops and paths you take, you will ultimately just scale your fleet power.

The real deception lies in the idea that you are making meaningful decisions and playing different playstyles when the ultimate question to it all comes down to, "Ok, how do I scale my fleet power with this if push comes to shove?"

___________

All these are just side notes on why I’m personally not really excited about the DLC direction and the upcoming Storms DLC.
It somewhat aggravates me that they know their fleet power scaling is damaging the game, and now we have moving storms that will increase the rock-paper-scissors effect, making brute-forcing your way to victory with just more fleet power not as easy anymore in some RNG cases. For example, when you land your fleet in a system where a -100% armor storm is raging, and you lose the rock-paper-scissors battle against a fully shielded fleet half the size of yours. At least, that’s what I expect to happen based on the dev diaries I’ve read.
They know their military mechanics are bare bones and oversimplified, don’t fit the pace of the game anymore, and hold back real asymmetrical playstyles and mechanics. But instead, they’d rather build in gimmicks that sometimes, somehow, maybe reverse or change the fundamentals for a moment, but not the necessary changes that are really needed to "fix" it.
 
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I still fail to see what the great big thing that can be done in Stellaris 2 is; so that can't be accomplished in Stellaris 1. I might be an outlier in this, but the whole "better performance/graphics" is wholly irrelevant to me. Especially if it ends up replacing the current nice 2D alien portraits with fugly 3D models. I dunno, I just feel that there is a ton of untapped potential in OG Stellaris. Heck, we just started to have something resembling a victory condition with Cosmogenesis.

Problem there is if it doesn't take up a slot, it just becomes a different type of bombardment that all your ships end up doing. I can also see it then having issues with choosing the army type and species. I guess the cost works out as there's risk of losing it with the ship in combat but you wont lose it in ground combat.

Ideally, only some hulls would get access to "ground combat bombardment" or allow for certain types of ground troops (say, you might load marines on a frigate, but you would need a Cruiser for Warforms). I still think that it would be a good way of representing the ground combat fantasy without making it obtrusive. A bit more of a resource investment, a different way of assaulting planets., et voilá, no more transport queues.
 
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I still fail to see what the great big thing that can be done in Stellaris 2 is; so that can't be accomplished in Stellaris 1. I might be an outlier in this, but the whole "better performance/graphics" is wholly irrelevant to me. Especially if it ends up replacing the current nice 2D alien portraits with fugly 3D models. I dunno, I just feel that there is a ton of untapped potential in OG Stellaris. Heck, we just started to have something resembling a victory condition with Cosmogenesis.



Ideally, only some hulls would get access to "ground combat bombardment" or allow for certain types of ground troops (say, you might load marines on a frigate, but you would need a Cruiser for Warforms). I still think that it would be a good way of representing the ground combat fantasy without making it obtrusive. A bit more of a resource investment, a different way of assaulting planets., et voilá, no more transport queues.
A big part is having all these dlc mechanics integrated in base game and so can be iterated on in future and can be made to work with each other to greater effect.
e.g. look at how the caravaneers and Ecumenopolis have been largely left untouched since their inception.
Each DLC creates tech debt because they need to take every combination of dlc into consideration when making content, starting afresh wipes it all away
 
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