• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
And the Stellaris update is explicitly moving away from the Vicky 3 model. The whole point of the pop redesign is to have pops consolidated by class and profession (like Vicky 2) rather than by building employment which is what Vicky 3 and current Stellaris does.
? Stellaris is moving from individual discrete pops to pops grouped by species, class, ethics, and buildings. How is that not the Vic 3 pop groups? 3.X pops are not because they're independent units not grouped by anything. They're more akin to a worker placement game.
 
  • 9
  • 5
Reactions:
? Stellaris is moving from individual discrete pops to pops grouped by species, class, ethics, and buildings. How is that not the Vic 3 pop groups? 3.X pops are not because they're independent units not grouped by anything. They're more akin to a worker placement game.
They aren’t grouped by buildings in the new system. They are grouped by species, strata, and ethic. Pops produce workforce that is then assigned to buildings.

It’s much closer to Vicky 2’s system of pops being grouped by profession, culture, and religion. Which then assigns the available workforce to factories

Victoria 3 is different because it breaks the strata into their individual buildings. A trade unionist laborer pop in a textile mill, can never combine with a trade unionist labor pop in furniture factory.

It’s what causes the massive pop fragmentation late game in Vicky 3 and the subsequent performance problems. In my opinion it holds Victoria 3 back from more interesting simulation ideas (because of performance concerns) for very little benefit (different wages for different industries for the same job)

On current version Stellaris I was under the impression that there was limited consolidation in situations where 2 pops that shared the same species, ethic, and job, would combine in the background calculations into 1 pop. If that is incorrect then I recant that comment. But I stand by the rest.
 
Last edited:
  • 15
Reactions:
Prior to reviewing this analysis, I must emphasize the basis of my perspective. My involvement with Victoria 3 predates its official release, and I have been an active mod developer for the game since that time. One of my mods continues to be ranked among the most popular available today. I offer this context to underscore the depth of my understanding regarding Victoria 3.

For those closely following Victoria 3, it should be apparent that the pace of DLC and major updates has slowed considerably compared to previous cycles. According to the typical development schedule, a significant update for Victoria 3 would have been expected in March. However, this has evidently been postponed until June.

The likely reason for this delay is a reduction in staffing within the Victoria 3 development team. It is reasonable to infer that personnel have been reassigned, potentially to bolster teams working on titles such as Hearts of Iron IV or Crusader Kings III.

Why would such reassignments occur? The underlying cause would logically be Victoria 3's underperformance. On this point, extensive elaboration is scarcely necessary; one need only consult the daily concurrent player statistics on Steam for Victoria 3 to observe the trend.

Furthermore, examining the recent announcements regarding upcoming content reveals a concerning pattern. The vast majority of the purported "updates"—with the notable exception of the trade system overhaul—constitute minor content additions, such as national flavor elements. This type of content, while potentially welcome, could readily be implemented by the modding community. Yet, this appears to form the bulk of the planned "DLC" strategy for the next year.

Therefore, based on these observations, I contend that Victoria 3, in its current trajectory, must be considered a failure.

It is crucial to stress that this failure is entirely attributable to internal decision-making. It is not the fault of the player base, nor can it be solely ascribed to external market conditions. The responsibility lies squarely with the Victoria 3 development team, or perhaps more specifically, with the game's lead designer(s). Over the past three years, this team has consistently made perplexing strategic choices:

Refusal to Reform the Military System: There has been a persistent unwillingness to overhaul the fundamentally flawed military system currently in place. I will not belabor the point excessively; if an individual perceives the existing system as adequate or even optimal, I can only express profound disagreement and difficulty in comprehending such a viewpoint.

Misguided DLC Prioritization: Even granting the development team myriad justifications for inaction on the military front, have other, more straightforward aspects been handled competently? Specifically, why did the team, over the past three years, elect to prioritize DLC development for regions like South America and India, rather than focusing on nations such as Japan, China, Germany,or the United States? It is highly probable that among the Victoria 3 player base, individuals primarily interested in the Chinese and American experiences vastly outnumber those focused on all other nations combined. Conversely, how substantial is the player segment genuinely invested in the South American or Indian content?

Lack of Strategic Cohesion: From the preceding points, it becomes evident that the V3 development team has failed on two critical fronts: they have neither significantly enhanced the game's core engagement and enjoyment ('fun'), nor have they successfully bolstered its commercial viability ('profitability'). Consequently, a decision by Paradox Interactive to deprioritize or potentially abandon further significant investment in Victoria 3 seems not only plausible but logical. Were I in a decision-making position at Paradox, I too would question the allocation of company resources over three years to a team demonstrating such a consistent pattern of baffling strategic choices.

All of this is true, and we can clearly see that Victoria 3 i unable to bring back people to play the game - it stalls at 5k daily, despite numerous reworks and DLCs. It is a total failure of development team and Paradox. i don't have any more faith for them, and i hope some other studio will make a 19th century grand strategy we all deserve.
 
  • 8
  • 7
Reactions:
All of this is true, and we can clearly see that Victoria 3 i unable to bring back people to play the game - it stalls at 5k daily, despite numerous reworks and DLCs. It is a total failure of development team and Paradox. i don't have any more faith for them, and i hope some other studio will make a 19th century grand strategy we all deserve.
Not a chart but itll do i guess, i think i got a bingo
 
  • 3Haha
  • 3
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Not a chart but itll do i guess, i think i got a bingo

Because this is crucial information how people who have bought the game really feel like. How many people who bought the game/are interested in buying are in this forum? 10%? Or more probably 0,01%? We can discuss to no end, and fans here may inhale tons od copium but this is the only one new iteration of PDX game that cant bring people in. We are almost 3 years after release, and the game that should have been a success and was clearly a dissapointment.
 
  • 5
  • 2
Reactions:
But other games with a GSG category released after Vic 3 include:

Hmm, Manor Lords and Age of Wonders are the only ones on that (shorter) list I recognize (the longer list you provide later has a number of titles I do recognize). Although I would never have thought Manor Lords is the remotely the same genre as Vic3 or Age of Wonders.

I thought Age of Wonders released before Vic3, but I guess I was wrong.

They wuz invented by Victoria: An Empire Under the Sun way back in 2003 which prompted my joining this quiet, reserved group of forumites.

2003? Hmpf.

1743814168761.jpeg


Bonus points because I'm pretty sure you'll remember the movie that's from. :D
 
  • 5
  • 1
Reactions:
1743815630016.jpeg

Pretty sure he played the Penguin.
1743826950952.png
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:
I haven't bought any DLC for this game. I just have apathy. This isn't a sequel to Victoria 2. It's Anno 1800 with more steps. Gilded Destiny is my ideal replacement.
 
  • 12
  • 5
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I'm sure it'll be fun to play when it finally releases in 2046 lol
I’ve seen people make similar comments but it confuses me. Why do people think it’s taking too long? They only announced their kickstarter last year, 2 to 4 years is pretty standard GSG development time

This is a sincere question, Is there something I don’t know?
 
  • 3Like
  • 2
Reactions:
I’ve seen people make similar comments but it confuses me. Why do people think it’s taking too long? They only announced their kickstarter last year, 2 to 4 years is pretty standard GSG development time

This is a sincere question, Is there something I don’t know?
Looking at their DDs they are barely making tangible progress, every time I check back they are still at Prussia events
Plus I think Japan content was a stretch goal for the kickstarter and they didn't even make it? I'm not confident they release it anytime on the foreseeable future WITH meaningful content (ie. at least as much as Vic3 launch)
 
  • 5
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Maybe I can be hopefully sort of impartial on this, since I went from a loving, then critic and then fan of this game lol.

Victoria 3 I think everyone can agree was released too early and suffered as a result, it wasn’t a good game and u could make a case that it failed. But it has definitely improved in leaps and bounds in that time that it is definitely a good game, and certainly not a “failed” one. I am approaching my 1000th hour with it, and adding mods like the Better Politics mod which adds Parliaments etc, it’s an amazing game.

However, Im worried that the time it will take to get Vic 3 fully fleshed out tho is going to be really long. This year we are only going to get one big mechanics pack when it needs 2 or even 3. I don’t like Paradox’s immersion packs, which is just basic journal entries which modders can better do. More mechanics packs rather than immersion packs that add little other than journal entries are desperately needed, and more of them too.

TLDR: Vic 3 is a good, even a great game adding mods, but it needs more mechanics to come to keep it a good/great game.
 
  • 8
  • 6
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
This year we are only going to get one big mechanics pack when it needs 2 or even 3. I don’t like Paradox’s immersion packs, which is just basic journal entries which modders can better do. More mechanics packs rather than immersion packs that add little other than journal entries are desperately needed, and more of them too.
It isnt just that the immersion packs are quite bad, they are sold as a way to make some money by not extending the game but in the long-term it will backfire them as in the current state there is nothing to immerse into. What I mean is that in 5 years or so they will need to rework this very same content and resell it again just as they did with hoi4
 
  • 13
  • 1
Reactions:
It isnt just that the immersion packs are quite bad, they are sold as a way to make some money by not extending the game but in the long-term it will backfire them as in the current state there is nothing to immerse into. What I mean is that in 5 years or so they will need to rework this very same content and resell it again just as they did with hoi4
This is a great point. For anyone that has played Hoi4 can tell you... it is kind of a mess. They desperately need a custodial team for Hoi4.

The devs for Rimworld have gone back and done updates to better connect DLC mechanics together. Something similar feels kind of important for PDX games. It would make the DLC worth more too knowing that it will be tied to other DLC mechanics in the future.
 
  • 7
  • 1
Reactions:
They desperately need a custodial team for Hoi4.
It is talked about for at least a year just from my observations. I guess because of the latest flop we will some changes on the hoi4 frontlines. I am only left to wonder why were they so fast to react with Stellaris and basically prevented this type of problems but with their most popular game they are so unwilling to do anything at all. Even Vicky3 with the latest news has it better than hoi4
 
It is talked about for at least a year just from my observations. I guess because of the latest flop we will some changes on the hoi4 frontlines. I am only left to wonder why were they so fast to react with Stellaris and basically prevented this type of problems but with their most popular game they are so unwilling to do anything at all. Even Vicky3 with the latest news has it better than hoi4
It does help for Stellaris that there is no historical basis, so they can mold as best fits gameplay without people complaining about that but.
 
  • 8
Reactions:
It does help for Stellaris that there is no historical basis, so they can mold as best fits gameplay without people complaining about that but.
The main issue here is the gameplay, it needs attention but it isnt there. While Stellaris got preventive measures which turned out great, why dont PDX use the practice eveywhere?
 
The main issue here is the gameplay, it needs attention but it isnt there. While Stellaris got preventive measures which turned out great, why dont PDX use the practice eveywhere?
Not sure what you mean by preventative measures. Do you mean forming the custodian team? That wasn't really preventative as at the time there were a number of outstanding issues that team was meant to resolve.

My point is that they can completely overhaul warfare, diplomacy, etc. and no one will complain that the game no longer models historical examples X, Y, or Z. Some will still complain for other reasons, of course.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Not sure what you mean by preventative measures. Do you mean forming the custodian team? That wasn't really preventative as at the time there were a number of outstanding issues that team was meant to resolve.

My point is that they can completely overhaul warfare, diplomacy, etc. and no one will complain that the game no longer models historical examples X, Y, or Z. Some will still complain for other reasons, of course.
I meant preventive in the sense of not waiting for the game to turn into a complete mess. 1-2 years of development like that and I expect HoI4 to start falling apart with all the bugs and lots of disunited systems