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unmerged(31994)

Zardishar
Jul 15, 2004
1.085
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Ive been going through the khaliphates events, and to be honest, I find them a bit scarce.It has alot of good events, but in my opinion, they arent as colourful, and alive as Grenada for example.The most complex is the Jihad against the Crusaders in outremer.
The Khaliphate shouldnt be limited to such events as "shia unrest" which in my opinion we should get rid of completely.

1. We need Renissance events, if Baghdad survived the mongol onslaught, thus much knowledge has been preserved.Arabs have been known to be great hoarders of knowledge and have built many universities.A good sequence of events for one of the Calipah's.
2. Introduction of firearms, where clerics quarrel over its validity in the faith...etc
3. Expansion of the Holy mosques of mecca and Medina
4. Revising and adding more description to current Calipah events
5. Creating an enemy to the Calipah "preferably Byzantium, several events ending with the capture of Costantinople perhaps?"
6. Eredicating the shia heresy "An intresting set of events if u ask me"
7. Turning the Caliphate into a modern state "I like that, turning it into something in parrallel with France for example, a functioning state"
8. Bad events, were new heretical groups arise, or crusades capture Jeruslem through a coup.
9. Expansion into Egypt "intresting, considering that the Abbasids ruled Egypt for a good amount of time"
10. Mastery over the Meddetteranian.
11. Calipah's role questioned...etc
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Khaliphate's name should be changed to "Caliphate" , the Army shouldnt be "MUS" but "TUR" the ships too.

These are some thoughts for the Caliphate, anyone wants to critisize and add something, please do :)
 
I agree that the Kaliphate needs some work...then again I think almost every nation needs some improvement. I do have a few issues with where you seem to want to take the Kaliphate though....

Honestly, they don't need a boost. I have never seen the Kaliphate destroyed in any of my games. Every single other major (with the exception of Hungary, but I think it's just circumstance) has been destroyed in my games. I have never seen the Kaliphate fail. In all honesty, if we put in events I am still in favor of mostly bad ones. If we put in a fall of Constantinople event, as has been previously discussed, I think it should follow a Byzantine crusade....which should have a good chance of success. Constantinople falling to the muslim hordes should be more of the "B" option here. I like #'s 1-4, 8-9, and 11. Most of the others are OK, those are just my favorites. The only things I am truly opposed to are making it likely that Byzantium loses to the Kaliphate, which will just give the Kaliphate another unneeded power boost, and mastery over the Meditteranean. I think that the Kaliphate should remain a land nation. Granada and the Mamelukes are already quite naval actually. I just think that giving the Kaliphate a strong navy will weaken Byzantium relative to them, and I think I've made it well known that I think this particular conflict is already extremely unbalanced.

I should add a couple ideas I guess....

1) Conflict with Hindu India late game
2) Perhaps a fight with the Fatamids over Egypt....could be interesting, though given the Kaliphate's strength probably one-sided.
3) Religios turmoil of some sort. Just for more flavor really, there should be a random conversion or something at the end to make up for losses to rebels.
 
Yes a boost into India is intresting, and Egypt is a good place to go to.The Byzantine Jihad is just for the player, we can shuffle the choices for the AI though....
As for religious termoil, I was thinking more in the term of :
Shias are uprising!~Bahias group appear in Persia ~Tayyamida sect appears in Baghdad....etc
It would be intresting though .The Khaliphate is a very good nation to play, but the problem is.....it lacks flavour, unlike Grenada.
 
Yeah I agree with you there....it doesn't have too much flavor to it. Hmmm we should probably wait for some people to wander in and post some ideas (hint hint), then get lawkeeper's approval and then start coding :) . Be nice to actually do some work instead of just discussing it :) :D .
 
Flavour events, why not. Bad events, certainly. Good booster events, certainly not, unless there is something significant (bad events, other countries) to counter them. Kaliphate is already very strong country.
 
Well still, good events should happen in my opinion, too much bad events, makes the player bored, I know I would :D , now lawkeeper, how about approving this for us?
 
Calipah said:
2. Introduction of firearms, where clerics quarrel over its validity in the faith...etc
IIRC, the Caliphate has been bumped down to muslim tech, thus it will only reach level 9-11 quite late, like the end of the 16th Century.
There are also some negotiation events over Sinai in the Mameluk/Egypt/Fatimid event file between the Mameluks and the Caliphate. (If you're in search for Caliphate events that is)
 
I saw the Cal events, the negotiations over sina are intresting, but about the firearms bit....
I wrote down a rigid view of that event, where in 1567, a Genoese Merchant arrives to Baghdad, carrying firearms.If u agree, u get large revolts, and u have to pay alot in exchange for aboast in technology in Mil. thats my view of it. :D
 
Calipah said:
now lawkeeper, how about approving this for us?
Yeah, sure, make some events. Just one thing : avoid to make them even stronger than now, perhaps start with small flavour events (renaissance, maybe a civil war-like, etc).

Perhaps a period of troubles might take place some time after the Sinai-sequence, and during that time, several of the neighbours (especially the Fatimids) could try to abuse the Caliphate ? A gang-bang has less chances to cause problems to neighbours. ;)

As for a fight against the hindus, the current mood in the hindu thread is to split up the sub-continent too, HRE-like, so a contest against Caliphate should wait until some unification has taken place. :)

Try to discuss only one or two events at a time, unless related to each other, to avoid making the thread to hard to follow. :D
 
Being the lazy Saudi I am, I will gladely write down the descriptions, only, the problem is, I normaly screw up with the actions which most people dont agree with.Will somebody accepts the most annoying task? :D :p
 
Send me a list of descriptions and any notes or idea on the results, and I'll code the events for you. It may take me till the end of next week, I have a big drama competition coming up....but they will be done! Send them via pm or email me at sporeofdoom@yahoo.com (yeah it's stupid, I've had it since I was 15, go figure).
 
Hi BoB :D sorry, tis was a very busy week :p anyway I made "some"positive events for CAL,I wrote alot of others, but I want to see people's reaction to the work.Ive made tons, But I only sent these to see if we can continue ok :)
EDIT: people dont worry IVE MADE ALOT OF BAD EVENTS BUT LETS JUST SEE OK :p just a note for people who say : CALS A MONSTOR!AAAAAAAAAA WEAKEN IT" I just want to make it feel like a nation.
A Cultural Crises

After conquering Persia, many Arabs encourged the Caliph to begin assimilating the heretical Persians into the fold of the Caliphate.A noble by the name of Yusuf bin Tashfin, a Persian in origin, funded the building of the Madrasat El-Fors (The School of the Persians) to train Qadis (Judges) , Modareson (teachers) and Kotab (Oriators) in the Persian tongue.Yusuf aimed to assimilate the Persians into the Caliphate culturally, by employing Arabs and kurds in Persian cities.Throughout Persia, mosques, schools and courtrooms were to be controlled by Arabs, stranggling the Persian culture and destroying it in the forthcoming centuries.Not to mention the massive movement of Arabs to the Persian cities also weakened the Persian identity.However, many Persian nobles showed opposition to this move, fearing for their countrymen , language, and culture.

# Choices 1.Build the School and send colonists to Iran! * some provinces become sunni, Hamdan and Tabriz turn Arabic, A great number of revolts, and money lost, about 400 coins. -1 innovation, continued resistance for 5 years perhaps?
2.Build the school only * some provinces convert, lose 200 coin, Awhaz becomes Arabic
3.Support Persian identity * 1 innovation, gain 300 coin, +1 aristocracy as there are many happy Persian nobles.

------------------------------------------------------
The surge into Egypt

An Egyptian by the name of Qazi Al-Sharay arrived to Baghdad, asking the Caliphate for help.Qazi plead for help to ascend the throne of Egypt as civil war broke out and two factions emerged, the Eastern Egyptians, and the Western Fatamids.By supporting him, we gain the support of the Eastern Egyptians, however, if we support the Fatamids, our western borders will be far more secure.However, there is a third choice, and that is to invade Egypt and let Allah sort out the dead.My lord, the oppourtunity in Egypt is too tempting to ignore, I highly advice we interfere....

Choice 1. Ignore the matter, this is soly an Egyptian problem *add anything u see good I guess
2. Support the Al-Sharay! *relations, that type of stuff
3. Support the Fatamids! * ahem relations and that type of stuff
4. Invade the cities of the Nile!* cores, stability hit, loss of money, gain some troops, war against FAT and EGY.....etc
-----------------------------------------------------
The surge into Egypt II

We conquered Egypt my lord!Cairo and Alexandria have fallen, and all of Egypt bows down to us!we are the masters of the Nile!Let us raise the flags of the Caliphate upon all of Egypt.
trigger: Cairo and Alexandria controlled by the Caliphate

Great! * stability +1
--------------------------------------------------------
The surge into Egypt III

After the fall of Egypt, the Al-Sharay family disappeared from the stage, dissolving into public life, fearing the Caliphate's fury.However, after the devestating conquest of Egypt, they began to pick up the leftovers of their power within the realm and mustered enough support to revolt against the Baghdadi Caliph.Cairo, Alexandria, and Dimyatta capitulated to the rebels and the people of Egypt are up in arms against us!

Crush them! * rebels control Cairo, Alexandria, and Delta , rebels appear in some places throughout Egypt
---------------------------------------------------------
Arabian Reniassance

The cities of the orient were spared the fate of the Asian cities by the hands of the mongols.Baghdad remained a beacon of knowledge and science in the area, and continued to produce great minds and works.However, the massive upheavels and wars, encourged the decline of knowledge at a whole.Libraries and universities were left to rot as most resources were used in the wheels of wars.By the 15th and 16th century, the Caliphate entered a period of rebirth, a Reniassance riviling Europe, and adding to the splendor of the Caliphate.Many Calipahs, built great houses of knowledge, and universities.The expansion of the House of Wisdom was a priority of great importance as expanding the Holy mosque of Mecca.The printer, a greatly critizied machine was imported from Europe through Byzantium, and books were widely distributed among the people who appreciated the works of the ancients.This was also dubbed the "Age of the Golden Caliphate".Some Caliphs also expanded mosques, and supported the pious.

Support the thinkers and artists of Islam!
Massive sum paid "perhaps 2000 ducats?
stability
+2 innovation
tech increase, infra or land or nav whatevah you think is right :)
triggers event 2
rebels?some are not happy with this openmindedness perhaps?
___
Support the faith of Allah!
Sum of 1000 ducats
-1 innovation
+1 centralization
an increase in troop numbers?
add relationship
some provinces convert?
trigger 3
____
Do nothing
stability and victory points go down?
____________________________________________________________

Arabian Reniassance 2

Under the rightly guided Calipahs of Baghdad, Islam once agains prospered, and a new age dawned upon those whos faith is in Allah.In Syria the magnificent college of Medicine Jawharat Soriyah stands as an edifice to the glory of the Caliphate.Another is the university of Yom in-Hadah in Baghdad and the school of philosophers in Basrah.

Allhamdullah
+1 stab
Add relations
anything else?

_______________________________________________________
Arabian Reniassance 3

The Great mosques of the Caliphate, and the fanatic outlook on the world has made her a most feared enemy by most non-muslims.Her zeal in converting heathens and heretics, and expanding the Holy mosques, not to mention supporting the many great shieks in Islam has given her great fame throughout Islam.

Add relations with islam
declining relations with Franks :)
stab +2
_______________________________________________________

Correction for the Great mosque event Note: it looked tacky so I added details :)

The Great mosque of Baghdad

Calipah (insert name?its in the events file) was a pious Calipah, who always wished to display his faith and love to allah in every way.In the peak of his zeal, he built the Great Abbasidium Mosque of Baghdad.A most magnificent and awe inspiring structure.About 290 feet tall, topped with a Golden dome, inlayed with emeralds and Sapphires, not to mention 20 minarets, each with the name of a specific prophet.The mosque was able to accomadate well over 20 thousand of the faithful, and acted as a center of spiritual and educational value to the Great city of Baghdad.
 
if u like, I will post alot more, This is just to see ur reaction :p
 
I'll try to get to work coding on it asap...but I may be slow, my network card died on me so my internet access is very limited till I get a new one. Sorry I don't have time for a longer response, but my MP game is about to start lol...

Anyways the events look good but are dependant on the actual coding....some of them could be very overpowered if coded as such, or just flavor if coded right too...I'll probably find a middle ground here, but I'll try to restrict massive core gains or culture conversion...anything else I figure is fine as long as there is a balancing force of bad events. I congratulate you though on the level of detail, you have put a good bit of work into the descriptions and they look pretty good :) .
 
If you're going to add this stuff to the Caliphate, perhaps a more tenuous hold on Persia would be in order. The Persian provinces could be the eventual battleground between Hindustan and the Caliphate, with the Shi'ite religion making it hard to hold for both sides.
 
Hmm...I suppose a recurring unrest event (much like the aristocracy revolting in Hungary) wouldn't be out of line....perhaps even making it nasty and converting some of the provs in Persia back to Shi'ite. Honestly, though, if we make Persia too unattractive then it won't be much of a battleground, just both sides trying to pass it off to the other lol. Though this scenario is unlikely due to the huge tax values and wonderful resources in Persia....

Anyways what is the general opinion on making the unrest events more painful for the Kaliphate? I could code in conversions for certain provs (tabaristan, isfahan, etc.), making them much more painful and less valuable to the Kaliphate. The result in MP would probably be that the provinces don't get converted in the first place, but that kinda accomplishes the same goal.

I am in favor of making it possible for one side to win the conflict....this would be in the 1700s and would allow for the gain of cores, maybe culture conversion even in a few provinces (perhaps gain of Afghan and Baluchi for Hindustan, but that isn't actually something I have influence over...). Whenever someone takes over official duties for coding the events for the post-unification Hindustan, then we can get together and discuss something on that...would make it more worthwhile to fight over Persia. There should be an opt-out choice for both sides though, in case in MP one side isn't interested *blatantly sucks up to the MP crowd :p :D *.

One other thing...with Lawkeeper's permission I'd like to go in and cut down the cores the Kaliphate gets on Persia. To like half of what they are. Seriously, what is the basis for these cores? It seems like it's just "those provs look pretty!" *insert magical CB*. I'd like a consensus or as close to it from everyone watching this thread first, those cores are kinda important in the long term for the Kaliphate, and I'd rather not make big changes like dropping 4 or 5 cores without a bit of input first.
 
CaptainBOB said:
Hmm...I suppose a recurring unrest event (much like the aristocracy revolting in Hungary) wouldn't be out of line....perhaps even making it nasty and converting some of the provs in Persia back to Shi'ite. Honestly, though, if we make Persia too unattractive then it won't be much of a battleground, just both sides trying to pass it off to the other lol. Though this scenario is unlikely due to the huge tax values and wonderful resources in Persia.....

I would love to see a confict here. Since it seems like I am the only one interested in working in India right now, I can try and set something up with it later. I am concentrating on sourthern India right now and only have a rough structure of whats might happen in the North right now.

CaptainBOB said:
Anyways what is the general opinion on making the unrest events more painful for the Kaliphate? I could code in conversions for certain provs (tabaristan, isfahan, etc.), making them much more painful and less valuable to the Kaliphate. The result in MP would probably be that the provinces don't get converted in the first place, but that kinda accomplishes the same goal.


I am in favor of making it possible for one side to win the conflict....this would be in the 1700s and would allow for the gain of cores, maybe culture conversion even in a few provinces (perhaps gain of Afghan and Baluchi for Hindustan, but that isn't actually something I have influence over...). Whenever someone takes over official duties for coding the events for the post-unification Hindustan, then we can get together and discuss something on that...would make it more worthwhile to fight over Persia. There should be an opt-out choice for both sides though, in case in MP one side isn't interested *blatantly sucks up to the MP crowd :p :D *.

Sounds good, as I said above, it will be awhile before I get up there.

CaptainBOB said:
One other thing...with Lawkeeper's permission I'd like to go in and cut down the cores the Kaliphate gets on Persia. To like half of what they are. Seriously, what is the basis for these cores? It seems like it's just "those provs look pretty!" *insert magical CB*. I'd like a consensus or as close to it from everyone watching this thread first, those cores are kinda important in the long term for the Kaliphate, and I'd rather not make big changes like dropping 4 or 5 cores without a bit of input first.

Right now, it gets 10 cores in persia with one event, 10. I think we should at least think about spitting the event in half so that you gain the other half if you get the first half.
 
CaptainBOB said:
One other thing...with Lawkeeper's permission I'd like to go in and cut down the cores the Kaliphate gets on Persia. To like half of what they are. Seriously, what is the basis for these cores? It seems like it's just "those provs look pretty!" *insert magical CB*.
Did you not read the event description, or what?
 
Event description or no, 10 free cores is silly and it seems to me that cores are supposed to represent legitimate claims, from marriage or extremely extended occupation. The Kaliphate doesn't seem to have these for Persia....just my take.
 
actually they do, considering the abbasids controlled Persia for well over 400 years until the great revolts.They have enough claims on them.