Kingdoms from the Scratch

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1) I would get rid of the Hospitillars and Templars, and fold their territory into Jerusalem (but only if combined with the next suggestion.)

2) I think Mauretania, North Africa, Tunesia, Egypt, and Jerusalem should be Islamic rather than Christian Kingdoms.

Well, I wanted to add Mauretania, North Africa, Tunisia and Egypt as catholic kingdoms to give new and different options.

3) Have you done tech distributions yet?

No.

4) Why no Kingdom of Lithuiania/Kingdom of Rus?

Well, Lithuania is a bit divided at the moment and I didn't want to give any russian brother a starting significant advantage over the others (ie. kingdom). I couldn't find sensible kingdoms for all three. I could have made Kiev into kingdom of Rus, Polotsk into kingdom of Lithuania, but nothing would have been left for Novgorod. Also, most of the Rus area is currently part of the Tribe of Moscow.

It looks promising. From a MP gamer perspective, I would probably leave France and Germany as NPC realms, as they are considerably larger than any of the other Kingdoms. That, however, has more to do with playing a game than putting the scenario together.

Well, we can think about player options for kingdoms later, but being big also gives you more vassals to manage and less power to your own guy. Think about the differences in Sunday game between France and England for example. When most of England's vassals revolted, Jarkko managed to defeat 'em. When most of France's vassals revolted, Hyzhenhok was doomed.

 

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Well, I wanted to add Mauretania, North Africa, Tunisia and Egypt as catholic kingdoms to give new and different options.

That's all well and good, but in the base scenario I think that they should remain Islamic. If you wanted to turn things on it's head, you could always mod them back later for a one-off game as the Catholic Kings of North Africa.

For the base scenario, I think they are too seperated from Europe to make good PC realms. IMHO, you should leave all of the places outside of Europe in the hands of strong non-Christian hands. Their distance from Europe, where most players will be, would leave them more disengaged from the rest of the game and spread the focus more widely rather than keeping the game in a narrower and more MP-friendly focus.

Well, Lithuania is a bit divided at the moment and I didn't want to give any russian brother a starting significant advantage over the others (ie. kingdom). I couldn't find sensible kingdoms for all three. I could have made Kiev into kingdom of Rus, Polotsk into kingdom of Lithuania, but nothing would have been left for Novgorod. Also, most of the Rus area is currently part of the Tribe of Moscow.

Why do the Russian Princes have to be brothers? If you're throwing history out the window, you might as well throw that out as well. I think that you should make Polotsk into the Kingdom of Lithuania, and combine Novgorod and Kiev into the Kingdom of Russia. You can leave the bulk of Rus in the hands of the pagan Kingdom of Moscow, but if you're going to make a mod with a focus on Kingdoms, you should have every part of the map included in one Kingdom or another.

Well, we can think about player options for kingdoms later, but being big also gives you more vassals to manage and less power to your own guy. Think about the differences in Sunday game between France and England for example. When most of England's vassals revolted, Jarkko managed to defeat 'em. When most of France's vassals revolted, Hyzhenhok was doomed.

I quite agree that concerns for an actual game should be left until later. I just made that comment as a one-off.

One further question I have is how are you going to determine the dynasties of the non-related Dukes. Are you going to stick all of them into the PC's courts, or are you going to create certain duchies and insert them. Originally, I thought you were going to do the former, but then I was not so certain.

I think that letting the players assign the counties and duchies is a fine idea, other than I think the AI never does it. So, you might need to divvy up all the pagan/muslim territory into counties and duchies.

More thoughts as they come to me.

 

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For the base scenario, I think they are too seperated from Europe to make good PC realms. IMHO, you should leave all of the places outside of Europe in the hands of strong non-Christian hands. Their distance from Europe, where most players will be, would leave them more disengaged from the rest of the game and spread the focus more widely rather than keeping the game in a narrower and more MP-friendly focus.

Fine. I'll mod them into one or two islamic kingdoms instead. But I am still feeling like having Kingdom of Jerusalem as a non-player kingdom, with it's elective system. It would be a great honor for players to get their relatives (younger brothers etc) first inherit a duchy in KoJ and then become king of Jerusalem.

Why do the Russian Princes have to be brothers? If you're throwing history out the window, you might as well throw that out as well. I think that you should make Polotsk into the Kingdom of Lithuania, and combine Novgorod and Kiev into the Kingdom of Russia. You can leave the bulk of Rus in the hands of the pagan Kingdom of Moscow, but if you're going to make a mod with a focus on Kingdoms, you should have every part of the map included in one Kingdom or another.

Well, they don't have to be you're correct. I'll transform Novgorod and Kiev into kingdom of Rus and Polotsk to kingdom of Lithuania. Both will be orthodox though and not intended as player realms, unless we decide to play as orthodox kings. I want to make Lithuania orthodox because it would be dumb leap in orthodoxy if Lithuania would be catholic.

One further question I have is how are you going to determine the dynasties of the non-related Dukes. Are you going to stick all of them into the PC's courts, or are you going to create certain duchies and insert them. Originally, I thought you were going to do the former, but then I was not so certain.

I will give non-related dukes a cool sounding dynasty that is native to that realm. Like "Neville" and "Talbot" to England, "von Habsburg" in Germany etc.

I will make each player a bunch of randomized characters before game starts and describe them to players. Not stats, but a short written description of the character. I will be creating all claimable duchies and players get to assign characters as dukes around their kingdom. I will make few extra so you can pick your starting advisors at the same time. So all duchies except two that will be royal demesne will be already assigned at start.

I think that letting the players assign the counties and duchies is a fine idea, other than I think the AI never does it. So, you might need to divvy up all the pagan/muslim territory into counties and duchies.

Of course. I will give AI kings practical personal demesne and make the rest as duke vassals (or pagan / muslim equilevant).

 

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EDIT: Version 5 up.

Now featuring:
- Christian kingdoms of Egypt, Tunisia, North Africa and Mauretania turned into muslim kingdoms of Mamluk and Almohad.
- Byzantine and moslem techs removed everywhere
- Principality of Kiev changed to kingdom of Rus and given Novgorod as vassal
- Principality of Polotsk changed to kingdom of Lithuania, made king not to be russian
- Religion and culture adjusted
- Sultanate of Rum and kingdom of Ayyubid given load of emirs as vassals, to smartly divide the realm
- Every ruler in Rum and Ayyubid randomized with the charts to demonstrate them

 

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Comments on the latest version-

1) Ismail al-Ismail has the best name in all of the middle east.

2) How did you divvy up the NPC domains? I noticed the Sultan of Baghdad (or whatever the Arab equivilant of Duke is in this game) does not control Baghdad, and was wondering whether you tried to keep NPC duchies together or just divided up the land as you thought best.

3) Malta has no culture and pagan religion.

I'd be happy to help you divide up pagan/muslim lands (using your charts and what, of course) if you like...

 

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1) Ismail al-Ismail has the best name in all of the middle east.

Well, the names might reworked in final version. Mustafa Mustafa ain't very smart either.

2) How did you divvy up the NPC domains? I noticed the Sultan of Baghdad (or whatever the Arab equivilant of Duke is in this game) does not control Baghdad, and was wondering whether you tried to keep NPC duchies together or just divided up the land as you thought best.

I wanted to save Tabriz for Persia, so I used the unused Baghad duchy for southern Euphrates area and Euphrates for the northern area. That is the only oddity in emirate distribution, when compared to claimable area of the equilevant duchies.

3) Malta has no culture and pagan religion.

Now that odd. In my province file malta shows up correctly catholic italian, but I have to admit that I haven't checked specifically Malta in the game itself.

I'd be happy to help you divide up pagan/muslim lands (using your charts and what, of course) if you like...

Well, my girlfriend is so fond of throwing dice in random charts, so I believe I shall have a handy random character generator in her. But instead you (and other players we are getting for this) could think about several relative comparable kingdoms to play with and then start thinking about your king.

I was thinking that all kings will get younger brothers according to their age, in the following way: Each younger brother will be two years younger than king / next eldest and no more brothers if that would result in underage people. So if my character is 30, I could get 7 younger brothers (28, 26, 24, 22, 20, 18, 16). Of course your own character won't have any kids at start, but still it gives a reason to have a character that is over 16. Other dukes that are not brothers will be either married to your sisters or will be sons of your aunts.

Also I planned that I will first describe you the lot you get to choose from to be your dukes (before making the married) and I would be giving you five extra (one of the bishop) to serve as your starting advisors. As you won't know exact stats, but instead will have written descriptions about them, you need to decide your starting council more realistically than looking at their "character-sheets".

 

[Sterkarm]

I like that...

Mind if I create a character or two for myself right now?

Kazimierz II Piast, Polish Catholic, King of Poland

Eldest among many sons of Boleslaw Piast, Duke of Krakow, Kazimierz saw the unification of Poland firsthand, even leading some of the troops into battle.

***Unifications of Poland in my Alternate History***

Poland was first unified under Kazimierz I Piast, son of Miezko, Count of Ciezyn, when Kazimierz I decimated the troops of the invading Kievans at the gates of Krakow, beating back the Rurikoviches and taking the Duchy of Sandomiersk and Mazovia from Kiev. After this victory, he married Konstancja Grakonksz, daughter of Wzebor, Wielkopolska, Count of Kujawy, Poznankie, and Gnieznienkie, and with claims on nearly the whole of Poland north of Krakow. With this, Kazimierz I inherited the whole lands of the Polans in 1005, unifying Poland.

However, with the death of Kazimierz I in 1044, months after Kazimierz II was born, many sons laid claim to the throne of Poland, and, unfortunately, the youngest, Jaroslaw, in a vie for dominance, allied with the Kievan Rus, who then, going through Northern Hungary, attacked Krakow from the south, coordinating with Jaroslaw's supporters, defeating the Royal forces under the command of Boleslaw, heir to the throne of Poland. The Kingdom of Poland was forced to split apart, when the Kievans signed a peace. Titles were divided equally between the sons of Kazimierz I, with the exclusion of the Duchy of Sandomiersk, which was given to Kiev.

The 2nd Unification of Poland occured in 1058, when Boleslaw's son, Kazimierz II, was but 14 years of age, yet already an extremely capable commander. Leading the Unification, his father, Boleslaw, pressed claims against his brothers, Jaroslaw, Zygmunt, Wzebor, and Stanislaw, with his other brothers, Miezko, Lambert, and Wladyslaw supporting his claims and pressing their own. While Zygmunt gave in and wished for peace with his kin, the other three resisted, and brought both the Germans and the Russians into the conflict. The Duke of Brandenburg supported Jaroslaw, Duke of Wielkopolska, and moved troops into Poznan to support him. Stanislaw was supported in Pommerania/Prussia by the Prince of Novgorod. The Kievans for once stayed neutral in a conflict between Poles.

The Battle of Silesia was the first to be fought, as it involved the Royal forces, in a defensive position against the German heavy infantry and the Polish light infantry from the mountains of Lubusz and the plains of Poznan (Jaroslaw). The Royal forces were slightly outnumbered, mainly because Brandenburg's liege, Germany, had sent a sizeable force to aid their vassal. With his great military skill, Boleslaw defeated his brother in the battle, and the Usurper forces retreated across the Oder to Poznan, to set up defenses.

However, Jaroslaw was still at the head of a large army, and, after the defeat of Lambert's forces in Kujawy, at the hands of Stanislaw, the army of Stanislaw was marching south, towards Krakow. Hurriedly, Boleslaw rushed back to Krakow to defend the great city. Jaroslaw chased after him, but his infantry could not catch the swift cavalry of Poland. When Boleslaw reached the city, he found it under siege by Stanislaw and the Russians. The Kievans had come too, thirsty for the plunders of Krakow that were so long denied them.

A mighty charge, lead by Boleslaw and his brothers, Zygmunt, Miezko, Lambert, and Wladyslaw, along with Boleslaw's two eldest sons, Kazimierz II and Miezko the Wise. In this charge, all of the Royal cavalry punched a hole through the line of the Usurpers of the North. However, they punched too deeply. Though Stanislaw's line broke, Jaroslaw came in from behind, and Wzebor galloped out of the south, having taken a route around Krakow and came up behind it, leading a charge of cavalry.

Boleslaw's forces were encircled. He decided to lead a charge, straight through Jaroslaw's heavy German infantry. As he did so, the forces of Stanislaw regrouped and reinforced Jaroslaw. Then, Wzebor's cavalry turned towards the flank of the Royal forces. Turning quickly to the south, Boleslaw lead his final charge into the ranks of the Usurpers, coming into single combat with Wzebor, and killing him. The other two Usurper brothers were killed, as Kazimierz slaughtered many. Boleslaw died on the battlefield that day, as both he and his brother Wzebor were locked in death thrusts, both their swords impaling the other. Many others died that day, and the battles after that were much smaller and cannot follow such a display of grandeur and courage, but, to sum it up, Jaroslaw, Stanislaw, and Wzebor lost their land and were exiled, for turning Poland against itself.

In short, the War for Polish Succession was a success for Boleslaw, but, with his death at the Battle of Krakow, it seemed all was lost. However, Kazimierz II stepped up to claim dominance, as the eldest of Boleslaw's sons and has united the realm, even though it is about to be split up between the brothers. However, Kazimierz will remain the dominant one and shall dole out titles as he wishes, remaining King of Poland. Kazimierz, having watched his uncles and father tear apart the realm in war for nearly 8 years, has gained much experience from it, seeing both the horrors and the uses of war.

***That was a long alternate history to type***

Stats for Kazimierz II Piast:

Martial: 10 (14)
Diplomacy: 4 (5)
Intrigue: 3 (4)
Stewardship: 10 (11)
Health: 7 (6)
Fertility: 6 (6)

Traits: Knowledged Tactician, Indulgent, Just

Age: 24

Brothers, in order of age: Zygmunt and Roger

 

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Now that odd. In my province file malta shows up correctly catholic italian, but I have to admit that I haven't checked specifically Malta in the game itself.

I double-checked, and Malta definitely shows up as no culture/pagan in the game.

Well, my girlfriend is so fond of throwing dice in random charts, so I believe I shall have a handy random character generator in her.

Fair enough- although whenever we get around to playing, I'll make up your characters for you so that you can have the same 'pick by reputation' experience.

But instead you (and other players we are getting for this) could think about several relative comparable kingdoms to play with and then start thinking about your king.

As far as playable Kingdoms, I'm wary of France and Germany since they are twice as large as the rest of the realms. However, without them, the play area is fractured unless you're playing a four-person game and squeeze them all into Iberia. So, I guess the best thing to do for a game would be to just play with them. I do think that Germany and France need to at least be broken up a bit more by culture, though, to hinder them in tech development.

I would make a few of the northern German Duchies Saxon rather than German (to try and reflect the differences between the Plattdeutsch and the Hochdeutsch) and I would expand a bit to the south the Dutch region (maybe Flanders as well?)

In France, I would make one or two of the Duchies bordering upon Burgundy Latin, and I would put some Normans up in the northwest.

While this wouldn't totally balance things out, it would give the smaller nations a more long-term advantage as they spread their technologies quicker. After that, I would just pick good role-players for those two realms and go with it from there.

That said, I would then make the base "playable realms" France, Germany, Poland, Hungary, Italy, and England, and then would add more countries to pick from based on interest.

(Suggestion- Perhaps two of you, Solmyr, or Jarkko could play France & Germany when we get things organized. Assuming, of course, that those three people want to play when we get this all done. You three are exceptional Role Players, Sterk would want to play Poland, and Hyzhen and I played Germany and France in our Sunday night game.)

I was thinking that all kings will get younger brothers according to their age, in the following way: Each younger brother will be two years younger than king / next eldest and no more brothers if that would result in underage people. So if my character is 30, I could get 7 younger brothers (28, 26, 24, 22, 20, 18, 16). Of course your own character won't have any kids at start, but still it gives a reason to have a character that is over 16. Other dukes that are not brothers will be either married to your sisters or will be sons of your aunts.

If you want to encourage older Dukes, I think you should make the 'brother gap' 3 or 4 years instead of two, and always round down. Starting out at 24 would still give you 4 brothers under the current scheme, which is still pretty young. Making it every three or every four years would give you only 2 brothers at 24, and would create an even greater incentive to play "older".

I think that the duchies not controlled by one of your siblings should be controlled by people not of your dynasty but married to your sisters. That would make you need to be careful (to ensure that you're not inherited semi-sallicly by a vassal and eliminated) and would also add more variety with more dynasties.

[/quote]
Also I planned that I will first describe you the lot you get to choose from to be your dukes (before making the married) and I would be giving you five extra (one of the bishop) to serve as your starting advisors. As you won't know exact stats, but instead will have written descriptions about them, you need to decide your starting council more realistically than looking at their "character-sheets".[/QUOTE]

I think that idea would work well for Dukes (both related and non-related), but not so much for advisors.

I think it would be silly and unenforceable to have a rule saying that you can't change your advisors whever you want, and even if people pick one way at the beginning of the game that doesn't mean they can't change it a month in. I think that after you generate a person's list of nobles, you should just let them pick Dukes from your descriptions and then dump the rest uncerimoniously into the King's court to do with what they wish.

 

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I double-checked, and Malta definitely shows up as no culture/pagan in the game.

Right, I'll look into that.

Fair enough- although whenever we get around to playing, I'll make up your characters for you so that you can have the same 'pick by reputation' experience.

That's a good idea, please do.

As far as playable Kingdoms, I'm wary of France and Germany since they are twice as large as the rest of the realms. However, without them, the play area is fractured unless you're playing a four-person game and squeeze them all into Iberia. So, I guess the best thing to do for a game would be to just play with them. I do think that Germany and France need to at least be broken up a bit more by culture, though, to hinder them in tech development.

Well, France was defeated in the Sunday game by rebellious vassals, so kingdom size isn't that mighty boon always. You have to tread much more carefully as a king of large kingdom than as king of small kingdom, because your personal power is lesser when compared to the power of your vassals, than in a small kingdom.

I would make a few of the northern German Duchies Saxon rather than German (to try and reflect the differences between the Plattdeutsch and the Hochdeutsch) and I would expand a bit to the south the Dutch region (maybe Flanders as well?)

Dutch could be expanded into parts of Picardie area as well. Also Brabant and Hainaut are good options in that. Saxon is currently unused, so we might put it into use as northern germans. This will though lead into use of saxon names there, which are somewhat different than german, except if we modify character-names file too.

In France, I would make one or two of the Duchies bordering upon Burgundy Latin, and I would put some Normans up in the northwest.

How about Languedoc, Toulouse and Armagnac as latin? Instead of normans, we might put welsh into Brittany, to signify their celtic heritage?

While this wouldn't totally balance things out, it would give the smaller nations a more long-term advantage as they spread their technologies quicker. After that, I would just pick good role-players for those two realms and go with it from there.

Agreed.

That said, I would then make the base "playable realms" France, Germany, Poland, Hungary, Italy, and England, and then would add more countries to pick from based on interest.

Good choices. Aragon and Scotland can be good additional options, as they are not that far from the power level of England and Poland and they are neighbours of other player realms.

(Suggestion- Perhaps two of you, Solmyr, or Jarkko could play France & Germany when we get things organized. Assuming, of course, that those three people want to play when we get this all done. You three are exceptional Role Players, Sterk would want to play Poland, and Hyzhen and I played Germany and France in our Sunday night game.)

Sterk has already stated his interest at Poland (wonder why ) and I am willing to play France or Germany. Though I have to warn you, that I am a good manager of Badboy.

If you want to encourage older Dukes, I think you should make the 'brother gap' 3 or 4 years instead of two, and always round down. Starting out at 24 would still give you 4 brothers under the current scheme, which is still pretty young. Making it every three or every four years would give you only 2 brothers at 24, and would create an even greater incentive to play "older".

Maybe 4 years then, but remember that being old can be very bad for your own childrenmaking.

I think that the duchies not controlled by one of your siblings should be controlled by people not of your dynasty but married to your sisters. That would make you need to be careful (to ensure that you're not inherited semi-sallicly by a vassal and eliminated) and would also add more variety with more dynasties.

I thought I said that already?

I think that idea would work well for Dukes (both related and non-related), but not so much for advisors.

Don't get me wrong, I did mean this: I am king of France, I have 20 duchies in my country. I get 25 people at start described to me and from them I pick 20 to become dukes and 5 will remain as my starting court.

 

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Mind if I create a character or two for myself right now?

I really appreciate your enthustiasm, but I suggest you should wait until we finish with the pondering (like amount of brothers you can have at each age was changed just now...).

As a thought about the character creation system in general, should base values be capped at 9 for martial, diplomacy, intrigue and stewardship and at 8 for health and fertility? No original 1066 character has higher than those values as base.

 

[Sterkarm]

I really appreciate your enthustiasm, but I suggest you should wait until we finish with the pondering (like amount of brothers you can have at each age was changed just now...).

As a thought about the character creation system in general, should base values be capped at 9 for martial, diplomacy, intrigue and stewardship and at 8 for health and fertility? No original 1066 character has higher than those values as base.

It was mainly just a bit of a draft, I was kind of bored and needed a place to write down what I was thinking so I wouldn't forget. In retrospect, Word would have worked fine...

 

[Solmyr]

At what times would this game be played?

If I play, I call dibs on France.

 

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Well, France was defeated in the Sunday game by rebellious vassals, so kingdom size isn't that mighty boon always. You have to tread much more carefully as a king of large kingdom than as king of small kingdom, because your personal power is lesser when compared to the power of your vassals, than in a small kingdom.

Like I said, Germany's an interersting game. I realize that people who play larger countries need to be more cautious, which is why I'm wary of them. If a person gets reckless the major will topple and that is not a good thing.

Dutch could be expanded into parts of Picardie area as well. Also Brabant and Hainaut are good options in that. Saxon is currently unused, so we might put it into use as northern germans. This will though lead into use of saxon names there, which are somewhat different than german, except if we modify character-names file too.

That expansion of Dutch culture sounds good. I don't mind having Saxon names in parts of the north, as this is sort of a fantasy campaign anyways. We could put them in Mecklemberg, Saxony (obviously), and one other northern Dutchy (maybe one that borders on Denmark?), just to give them another patch of somthing interresting.

How about Languedoc, Toulouse and Armagnac as latin? Instead of normans, we might put welsh into Brittany, to signify their celtic heritage?

Alternately, I thought we could let Basque culture creep up from the south into some of the south-west Frankish countries, like Bordeaux (or whatever that Duchy is that neighbors Navarre.

Good choices. Aragon and Scotland can be good additional options, as they are not that far from the power level of England and Poland and they are neighbours of other player realms.

Well, it's all what you're looking for in a game, but Scotland and Aragon would be good ancilliaries in a larger Majors game. Iberia is a good choice for a four-player game, and Bulgaria, Serbia, and Croatia would make an interersting area for a three-player game.

Sterk has already stated his interest at Poland (wonder why ) and I am willing to play France or Germany. Though I have to warn you, that I am a good manager of Badboy.

Good managers of BB are what we would want in people who play the bigger countries.

Maybe 4 years then, but remember that being old can be very bad for your own childrenmaking.

Yes, but it's not as bad for men as it is for women and I assume that all the PCs would begin with young, nuble wives regardless of how old they were.

Plus, I think we want to limit brothers somewhat, just to give smaller Kingdoms another advantage over larger ones- a King of a smaller realm is going to have a significant loyalty advantage over a larger realm, as proportionally more of the realm would be ruled by relatives.

I thought I said that already?

Well, you said married to your sister or cousins, and I was voicing my support for not making them cousins.

Don't get me wrong, I did mean this: I am king of France, I have 20 duchies in my country. I get 25 people at start described to me and from them I pick 20 to become dukes and 5 will remain as my starting court.

OK. I was just a little unclear, then.

 

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At what times would this game be played?

Haven't started thinking about that yet. We're still working on the scenario.

Feel free to offer Byak your opinions on the scenario if you'd like to dl it and take a look, though. If you're intrigued enough to want to play, helping Byak sort everything out might be the best way to hurry along the start of the game...

If I play, I call dibs on France.

Duly noted.

 

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As a thought about the character creation system in general, should base values be capped at 9 for martial, diplomacy, intrigue and stewardship and at 8 for health and fertility? No original 1066 character has higher than those values as base.

Well, there are a few that break that rule I think (maybe el Cid), but I think that might be a good guideline to go by. Nothing higher than 9 (8 in hidden stats) to start with, so that starting characters are more balanced.

I might also suggesting dropping "Wise" from the selection of available traits a player can begin with, as picking a second-tier education and the "Wise" trait can often produce better results, stat wise, than a 3rd tier education. Plus, (and I'm putting on my Philosophy student hat here), truly Wise people are not all that common a thing.

 

[Sterkarm]

About brothers, I think a good compromise would be 3 years, short, but gtg.

 

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Loads of feedback!

Stat caps: Well, it seems I was wrong with that no 10s in base. El Cid has 10 martial and he's not the only one... But still, capping at 9 for visible and 8 for hidden is a very good thing for balance. Also the random charts are capped at those values too.

Wise: Wise gives you +1 on all stats giving a +4 total on attributes. Difference between 2nd tier and 3rd tier education is usually +3 on total, so Wise is a bit better on average. But Wise is also disliked by most people and in some cases it's better to have trait bonuses focused (which better education gives) than spread out. Also better parent education gives better results with kids. So imo the benefits balance out quite well.

Time: We probably play on such time that is good for every player involved. So that can mean going for 0300 GMT again.

Saxons: Mecklemburg, Saxony and Holstein. Maybe in western Pommern area too? How about Brandenburg?

Basques: If we like, we can make Bordeaux basque, Armagnac, Toulouse and Lanquedoc latin and Brittany welsh. That would give France a load of diversity.

Brothers: Four years difference is nice. Maybe cap at max three younger brothers?

Other dukes: If they are other dynasty cousins, they will still be viable candidates for succession, though they won't get loyalty bonus for familial ties. I was just suggesting this as an option if we would end up with king of Germany with 12 sisters.

 

[Sterkarm]

Loads of feedback!

Stat caps: Well, it seems I was wrong with that no 10s in base. El Cid has 10 martial and he's not the only one... But still, capping at 9 for visible and 8 for hidden is a very good thing for balance. Also the random charts are capped at those values too.

Wise: Wise gives you +1 on all stats giving a +4 total on attributes. Difference between 2nd tier and 3rd tier education is usually +3 on total, so Wise is a bit better on average. But Wise is also disliked by most people and in some cases it's better to have trait bonuses focused (which better education gives) than spread out. Also better parent education gives better results with kids. So imo the benefits balance out quite well.

Time: We probably play on such time that is good for every player involved. So that can mean going for 0300 GMT again.

Saxons: Mecklemburg, Saxony and Holstein. Maybe in western Pommern area too? How about Brandenburg?

Basques: If we like, we can make Bordeaux basque, Armagnac, Toulouse and Lanquedoc latin and Brittany welsh. That would give France a load of diversity.

Brothers: Four years difference is nice. Maybe cap at max three younger brothers?

Other dukes: If they are other dynasty cousins, they will still be viable candidates for succession, though they won't get loyalty bonus for familial ties. I was just suggesting this as an option if we would end up with king of Germany with 12 sisters.

About sisters, is there a rule for that, like the brothers?

 

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About sisters, is there a rule for that, like the brothers?

Yes, the rule of Common Sense. 3 brothers and 15 sisters is not sensible, 2 brothers and 6 sisters still is.

 

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Stat caps: Well, it seems I was wrong with that no 10s in base. El Cid has 10 martial and he's not the only one... But still, capping at 9 for visible and 8 for hidden is a very good thing for balance. Also the random charts are capped at those values too.

I don't think that there was anyone objecting to the idea of stat caps. I know, at least, that I wasn't. I was just pointing out that there are/were a few people that broke the mold.

Wise: Wise gives you +1 on all stats giving a +4 total on attributes. Difference between 2nd tier and 3rd tier education is usually +3 on total, so Wise is a bit better on average. But Wise is also disliked by most people and in some cases it's better to have trait bonuses focused (which better education gives) than spread out. Also better parent education gives better results with kids. So imo the benefits balance out quite well.

Very well. I was just raising points.

Time: We probably play on such time that is good for every player involved. So that can mean going for 0300 GMT again.

We can worry about time after we finish building the scenario.

Saxons: Mecklemburg, Saxony and Holstein. Maybe in western Pommern area too? How about Brandenburg?

I was thinking about Brandenberg/Pommern as well. I thought about suggesing we bring Prussian culture into Pommern/Brandenberg instead, thinking that if three cultures is good enough for France that it should be good enough for Germany as well. Depending on how many German provinces remain after the expansion of Dutch culture, and the inclusion of Saxon (and Prussian?) culture, we might consider making Lower Lorraine Saxon as well.

I think the target for France and Germany should be to have 30-35 provinces being Frankish and German, respectively. That's about as big as the more homogenous smaller Kingdoms get, and so I thought that would be a good guide to use. France has 61 provinces and Germany has 75, just for the record.

Basques: If we like, we can make Bordeaux basque, Armagnac, Toulouse and Lanquedoc latin and Brittany welsh. That would give France a load of diversity.

That sounds good...

Brothers: Four years difference is nice. Maybe cap at max three younger brothers?

I'd cap it at 4 brothers, putting the maximum age a PC could take at 32. I don't know why, but I like the idea of a PC being able to be over 30.

Other dukes: If they are other dynasty cousins, they will still be viable candidates for succession, though they won't get loyalty bonus for familial ties. I was just suggesting this as an option if we would end up with king of Germany with 12 sisters.

While that is true, I don't think it would necessarily affect things much. between the brothers and sisters of the King, cousins would be quickly crowded off the succession list, and they also would be in-dynasty which wouldn't make it as bad if you got inherited by one of them.

I also don't think that in France and Germany it is even necessary to have everyone with some tie or another to the throne. We should only give sisters to Dukes of the same culture in those larger countries. Indeed, I think that with Germany and France, we should try to have a small pool of nobles for each ethnicity and require that lands whose culture differs from the King's has to be ruled by a noble from that culture (or one of the King's brothers, of course.) For example, there might be two Basque nobles in the King of France's pool and one of them (or one of the King's brothers) has to be Duke of Bordeaux, there might be five Latin nobles for the three Latin Duchies, and so on. Doing it might give Germany and France a slightly larger beginning court than other PCs, as we obviously wouldn't want to short change them on their own culture, but I think that's OK. They're the biggest countries, and I think it makes sense that they would have the biggest courts.