Ladders need to be changed - info gathered from Steam forums.

[unmerged(669344)]

At least with tunneling agents its only because you tried to purposely design a place within your lair that could not be walked to, that's why they were tunneling. Ladders on the other hand are a constant annoyance that appear like clock-work regardless of what you do and must be delt with similarly.

Seriously? THATS why they were tunneling? you know how places I went to looking for any information on why thouse jerks randomly appearing in my power generation room?
In addition I agree with Zadey as well it'd be nice to have a concequence to the raids but since its by popular demand just make it so ladders don't spawn on easy difficulty. Of course ladders are annoying but Scynix has put together a rather large post on how to deal with them and linking rooms does seem to help. Although I still prefer to have a few unsquadded guards as bait and a bunch of traps in the hallway leading to my treasury. Anyways the point is that its half a measure of difficulty. It'd be like cutting out investigators from Evil Genius so you only generate heat from world map activities. Or maybe tourists...I could never get the hotel to work properly and keep them away from my lair. My freezer was huge because of it. So yea the ladders are Impire's tourists because they arn't "hard" but annoying.

 

[unmerged(664355)]

Me I play the game like this, and ladder is not an issue for me. I put all my solo units in patrol, near all my rooms corridors. This solves ladders. Heroes only spawn at entrance when no ladders. I put all my traps in the corridor linked to entrance. I should do a video, to show you, how strong is this strategy against ladders and to defend my dungeon like a piece of cake.

 

[Kaiser Timo]

Ban the ladders and rectrictive "freedom"

 

[Scynix]

Off topic, in Evil Genius the final super agent (The james bond wanna-be) didn't "tunnel because you blocked areas off". He tunneled because he could. That was his design. He was basically the final boss though. Normal agents would only tunnel if they couldn't reach somewhere in your base though, which is correct. Lot of people got wiped out by the bond wannabe the first time they ran into him though. :/

@Axeno, and I firmly believe that was the intended design. The devs (who play the game themselves) did the same thing, and have commented on using patrols to destroy ladders both here and on the steam forum. The problem is the people who refuse to play the game the way it was designed because they want to be playing something else. They wanted a DK clone. Of course they forgot heroes in DK could tunnel through your walls from anywhere that wasn't blocked by solid rock.

 

[unmerged(141552)]

if *I* had a choice, i would connect the ladder system to something like the Heat gauge of Evil Genius, where the more you raid, the more ladders that appear to get 'revenge', whereas is you slowly hide away in your dungeon, converting mushrooms to mats, letting your big boys sit in the monster den to gather treasure, with only the occasional 'adventurer' party probing the odd cave in the hill

The problem with this idea is that we gather resource only in early game, thus you'll be stormed by a stream of heroes when you are defenseless(or have to waste time waiting for it to go down) and see it dried out when you finished to set up your defenses and leveled your minions. Also it will render the training/extracting resource pointless...

 

[City Builder]

Seriously? THATS why they were tunneling? you know how places I went to looking for any information on why thouse jerks randomly appearing in my power generation room?

Yeah it took me a long time of staring at my power gen rooms to finally see (and for it to click) why they would tunnel in. Great game by the way (evil genius that is).

 

[unmerged(490344)]

Of course they forgot heroes in DK could tunnel through your walls from anywhere that wasn't blocked by solid rock.

The difference is that it in DK it was a mechanic that challenged you to claim as much territory as possible while leaving your workers enough time to fortify the walls. It made each map play out differently, and getting too greedy could lead to some ridiculous, permanent fuckups.

In Impire it's just busywork on a five minute timer. What's interesting about that?

 

[Scynix]

The difference is that it in DK it was a mechanic that challenged you to claim as much territory as possible while leaving your workers enough time to fortify the walls. It made each map play out differently, and getting too greedy could lead to some ridiculous, permanent fuckups.

In Impire it's just busywork on a five minute timer. What's interesting about that?

What did reinforcing walls have to do with them burrowing through? They could break through any wall given time. That was their main method of breaching your dungeon, which meant you couldn't realistically use traps unless you placed them everywhere that was an incursion point, which is why (at least competitively) players built their bases inside a large ring of a tunnel so that when the outer ring is breached you could have traps in that ring, and it wouldn't be in your dungeon yet, which itself didn't work particularly well with how limited the construction space was on so many maps. And that's also why the most popular multiplayer maps were the ones that started you surrounded by solid rock except a couple of choke points.

Please don't pretend like DK was the best game ever made. It wasn't. It had serious flaws, it was just the best (and probably the first most people played) of its kind. Every game has its flaws. Every single one.

Every game is "busywork". There's no such thing as a game that isn't busywork. I don't perceive it as busywork, I have fun building up my dungeon and trying new layouts to wipe out the hero invasions. I've tried multiple different layouts. I really have *no idea* why so many people posting haven't bothered trying anything. I'm having difficulty believing most of these people even have the game. For example, why don't you have Impire registered here? Do you own the game? If not, why are you posting here? Why do you have an opinion about a game you don't play? Just to have one?

 

[unmerged(490344)]

Dude, chill out. Yes, in between pirating games I strangle puppies and rob grandmothers, and it greatly affects my decisions about games.

If it would make you happy I could register it here, I only registered a game to get around the spam filter and never bothered again.

Anyways DK isn't perfect and I never said it was, stop being a fanboy. I'm just comparing two game mechanics with a similar purpose.

What did reinforcing walls have to do with them burrowing through? They could break through any wall given time. That was their main method of breaching your dungeon, which meant you couldn't realistically use traps unless you placed them everywhere that was an incursion point, which is why (at least competitively) players built their bases inside a large ring of a tunnel so that when the outer ring is breached you could have traps in that ring, and it wouldn't be in your dungeon yet, which itself didn't work particularly well with how limited the construction space was on so many maps. And that's also why the most popular multiplayer maps were the ones that started you surrounded by solid rock except a couple of choke points.

I'm talking about singleplayer, I never tried MP because it looked really unfun, honestly. I also haven't tried Impire in MP, so if ladders are just spectacular there mea culpa I guess.

 

[Zarco]

Guys, this conversation is starting to get out of hand. If you dont calm down i´ll have to close the thread. Please keep it civil.

 

[Scynix]

I'm talking about singleplayer, I never tried MP because it looked really unfun, honestly. I also haven't tried Impire in MP, so if ladders are just spectacular there mea culpa I guess.

Oh, that's unfortunate. The multiplayer was genuinely one of the best aspects of it. Tried to get my buddies back into it a few years ago but we found out unless you install a very old version of Windows the multiplayer CTD's every four-five minutes.

You should really consider trying Impire's skirmish when they've worked out the kinks, it's a blast. It really forces you to use your layout as a proper method of defeating heroes, since your squads/Baal will more than likely be occupied trying to hold objectives. Nothing works out problems in a plan faster than being thrown into the fire.

In *my* opinion, I don't think the ladders are the problem. They're obnoxious, for sure. But if the heroes didn't have a way to back door into your base the game would be so absurdly easy I could just go AFK after my initial trap line was setup. As it is I have to put more thought into my design so that I *can* ignore ladders and focus on more important things. I think the real problem is a combination of a lack of proper demonstration on using a couple of berserker patrols + condensing your hallways, and how fast the heroes come in after the ladders show up. You'd think you'd get a warning about them burrowing through the surface FIRST, *then* the ladders, *THEN* they'd come in. It's like the Aggression thing, people couldn't stand "Feed, fight, feed, walk, feed"... but if you get to .. (2-1? I think) you start unlocked mascots, agg runes.. stuff that COMPLETELY negates feeding. My squads are at 100% aggression for the vast majority of every game thanks to mascots + an agg rune. Gameplay besting problems. But since it's more than a chapter in until you get these things, most people never got that far before blowing a gasket.

 

[unmerged(669344)]

In *my* opinion, I don't think the ladders are the problem. They're obnoxious, for sure. But if the heroes didn't have a way to back door into your base the game would be so absurdly easy I could just go AFK after my initial trap line was setup.

They are obnoxious but the only real problem I have with them personally is the relative distance they can spawn near your treasury...but like you say if their was a bit more warning instead of ladders have dropped 10 seconds before the heros arrive and use them things would be less annoying. Maybe Impire development can come up with a DLC rune pack that includes unbreakable cealings and prevents ladders from spawning. You'd have to pay for it but it'd settle this debate nicely as people who want ladders can have them and people who don't have an option to get rid of them.

 

[unmerged(141552)]

but like you say if their was a bit more warning instead of ladders have dropped 10 seconds before the heros arrive and use them things would be less annoying.

I seen the ladders as warning that heroes are going to teleport into your base. After all if you can teleport anywhere, why can't they? in this regard you have both a warning and several mechanism(though not perfect by any stretch as feedback suggests) to deal with them.

 

[unmerged(669344)]

I seen the ladders as warning that heroes are going to teleport into your base. After all if you can teleport anywhere, why can't they? in this regard you have both a warning and several mechanism(though not perfect by any stretch as feedback suggests) to deal with them.

Touche...im pretty sure im suppose to put an accent on the 'e' but I hate changeing to the french canadian key layout because I can never find my way back without takeing 20 minutes. So the ladders need some reworking to be less obnoxious really...still the DLC rune that makes the ladders not spawn seems like a valid idea to me...ends the arguement all together really since you can go either way as you prefer.

 

[unmerged(497946)]

I seen the ladders as warning that heroes are going to teleport into your base. After all if you can teleport anywhere, why can't they? in this regard you have both a warning and several mechanism(though not perfect by any stretch as feedback suggests) to deal with them.

Why not get the best of both systems?
I modded the game so that I do get the warning (as text) of the "real" intruders coming through the main entrance... but no ladders. =)

And no, I didn't hack the executable or anything so crazy. Just a simple change to the responsible LUA script.
Another thing I'm looking into is if I can get healers to heal friendlies outside their group. The current "squad" implementation really is more trouble than it's worth...

 

[Scynix]

Because it's cheating. Changing a script file isn't fancy. If they didn't want ladders to be in the game, they wouldn't have put them in the game. If you mod out everything you have trouble dealing with, why are you even playing games? Though I suppose the same people would be the ones who pay for FPS multiplayer hacks. "Evening the field through changing the rules".

 

[unmerged(141552)]

pfft Scynix... you are taking this too far. If he want to mod his game, he can. Regardless of what you think about it.

 

[unmerged(497946)]

Because it's cheating. Changing a script file isn't fancy. If they didn't want ladders to be in the game, they wouldn't have put them in the game.

Aren't you missing a little detail here? They are not playing my game. I am.
If they want ladders in the game, they are free to play with them.

And comparing this to cheating in a multiplayer game? Stop being ridiculous.
Precisely who could I be cheating In a single player game? You? Certainly not myself because ladders aren't any kind of mental challenge.
They are a boring chore and destroy both dungeon design and traps. By eliminating one non-gameplay feature, I bring 2 useful features to a working state.
Call it whatever you like. I call it a long-overdue fix.

 

[Scynix]

pfft Scynix... you are taking this too far. If he want to mod his game, he can. Regardless of what you think about it.

I don't think calling something what it is "taking it too far". It's still cheating. I never said he couldn't mod his game. He can also mod in invulnerability and max stats, it's still cheating. Or is it a crime to call out cheating now? I'm pretty sure cheating is still a faux pas among most gamers.

Out of curiousity, have you even thought about what happens when he tries to join a skirmish game with his modified files?
Does it prevent him from getting ladders but we still get them? Does it desynch the game and wreck it for everyone? Does he crash?

 

[unmerged(141552)]

I don't think calling something what it is "taking it too far". It's still cheating. I never said he couldn't mod his game. He can also mod in invulnerability and max stats, it's still cheating. Or is it a crime to call out cheating now? I'm pretty sure cheating is still a faux pas among most gamers.

and I think that you'll be wise to keep your opinion to yourself, unless ask for it... I find your guide on how to deal with ladders to be commendable, but all the extra missionary work and patronizing attitude about why/how people should play their games is getting tedious.