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Jorian, so that means you are saying that your saying places in Silesia should be in Czech just because they were under bohemian administration, for example that means changing Breslau to Vratislav (IIRC), and then changing places under turkish administration all turkish. You also would face problems with Switzerland doing this, for that is a multilingual nation of Italian, German and French. You really need to think realistically, not just "because they are administrated by <country> the place should have that name> and get maps of differents languages, because if you get them all in Hungarian then they are no doubt going to have all provinces in Hungarian.

Siebenburgen will be changed with magyar name.
Click to expand...

So, I suppose you follow Jorian's point. So the german majority in Siebenbürgen doesn't count? The so called "Siebenbürger Sachsen". You are thereby stating that because it was under Magyar control, it should be written in Magyar.

I don't know any citynames in Slovak or german or whatever so I can post suggestions only in Hungarian and if you don't like those you can suggest other city names, not province ones.
Click to expand...

Pozsony - Preßburg
Temesvár - Temeschburg (Temesvör?)
Székesfehervár - Stuhlweißenberg

Use THIS map to help you with Slovakian names :

map_cze_skr_hun.gif
 
Walter Model said:
Jorian, so that means you are saying that your saying places in Silesia should be in Czech just because they were under bohemian administration, for example that means changing Breslau to Vratislav (IIRC), and then changing places under turkish administration all turkish. You also would face problems with Switzerland doing this, for that is a multilingual nation of Italian, German and French. You really need to think realistically, not just "because they are administrated by <country> the place should have that name> and get maps of differents languages, because if you get them all in Hungarian then they are no doubt going to have all provinces in Hungarian.



So, I suppose you follow Jorian's point. So the german majority in Siebenbürgen doesn't count? The so called "Siebenbürger Sachsen". You are thereby stating that because it was under Magyar control, it should be written in Magyar.



Pozsony - Preßburg
Temesvár - Temeschburg (Temesvör?)
Székesfehervár - Stuhlweißenberg

Use THIS map to help you with Slovakian names :

map_cze_skr_hun.gif
Click to expand...
Szászföld means in german: 'sachsensland', you can see that on my original map. But they were not so many that the province gets german culture, and they quicly learned hungarian, and gained hungarian 'style', or if you still think yes, it was under still hungarian rule.
Hungary had its 'golden era' in the times of Könyves Kálmán and Hunyadi Mátyás, when can we have all hungarian provinces named hungarian, if not in our own golden era??

for provinces by what you posted:

prov name:pozsony
city name: Preßburg

Temesvár: was more hungarian than other, no city name change, also for the other suggestion of yours its the same.




Székesfehervár? I hope you made a joke, that's in the middle of Hungary:

"The Hungarian town was founded in 972 by High Prince Géza on four islands in the moors of the streams Gaja and Sárvíz. He also had a small stone castle built. Székesfehérvár was first mentioned in a document by the Bishopric of Veszprém, 1009, as Alba Civitas.

Contrary to popular belief, Géza's son St. Stephen was not crowned here, because the basilica has been finished only in 1039, one year after his death. Stephen granted town rights to the settlement, surrounded the town with a plank wall, had a provostery and a school built and under his rule the construction of the basilica began (it was built between 1003 and 1038). The settlement had about 3500 inhabitants at this time and was the royal seat for hundreds of years. 43 kings were crowned in Székesfehérvár (the last one in 1526) and 15 kings were buried here (the last one in 1540).

In the 12th century the town prospered, churches, monasteries and houses were built. It was an important station on the pilgrim road to the Holy Land. Andrew II issued the Golden Bull here in 1222. The Bull included the rights of nobles and the duties of the king, and the Constitution of Hungary was based on it until 1848. It is often compared to England's Magna Charta, which predates it by just seven years.

During the Mongol Invasion of Hungary (1241–1242) the invaders couldn't get close to the castle, they couldn't get through the surrounding marshes because of the melting of the snow. In the 13th–15th centuries the town prospered, several palaces were built. In the 14th century Székesfehérvár was surrounded by city walls.

The Ottomans occupied the city after a long siege in 1543 and only after a sally ended in most of the defenders including the commander, György Varkoch, being locked out by wealthy citizens fearing they might incur the wrath of the Turks by a lengthy siege. They discovored after surrendering, however, that the Turks were not without a sense for chivalry and those responsible for shutting the defenders out were put to death. The city remained under Ottoman occupation for 145 years, until 1688, except for a short period in 1601 when it was re-occupied. The Ottomans destroyed most of the city, they demolished the cathedral and the royal palace, and they pillaged the graves of kings in the cathedral. They named the city Belgrad ("white castle") and built mosques. In the 16th–17th centuries it looked like a Muslim city. Most of the original population fled.

The city began to prosper again only in the 18th century. It had a mixed population, Hungarians, Serbs, Germans and Moravians. In 1703 Székesfehérvár regained the status of a free royal town, but it did not become capital again, for the country was now ruled by the Habsburgs whose royal seat was Vienna, while the juridical meetings were held in Pozsony (Pressburg / Bratislava.) In the middle of the century several new buildings were erected (Franciscan church and monastery, Jesuit churches, public buildings, Baroque palaces). Maria Theresa made the city an episcopal seat in 1777.

By the early 19th century the German population was assimilated. On March 15, 1848 the citizens joined the revolution. After the revolution and war for independence Székesfehérvár lost its importance and became a mainly agricultural city. New prosperity arrived between the two world wars, when several new factories were opened."

As you can see yes, there were germans, but only in the 18th century, and after they became hungarian too.


I can agree on Kassa city becomes Cosice (or spelling of that)
 
Walter Model said:
Székesfehervár was a joke, but I like the name :)

If its such a golden era, then why were you annexed by the ottomans a century later, huh?
Click to expand...
not really annexed, and we made a mistake: did not allow them to walk trough our nation (thus allowing them to plunder on their way) when they moved against Vienna.
Also, the golden era ended with the death of Corvinus, and that his child (a bastard) was not allowed to rule after him even that he wanted that to happen.
 
Krantz said:
Hmm, only added four provinces to Portugal on Vanilla map.
(Madeira is not on the picture)

could this be a good idea for Portugal on the Long term map?
Click to expand...
they would have affirmitly more chance against spain on iberia then in a war, I like it :)
 
Walter Model said:
Jorian, so that means you are saying that your saying places in Silesia should be in Czech just because they were under bohemian administration, for example that means changing Breslau to Vratislav (IIRC), and then changing places under turkish administration all turkish. You also would face problems with Switzerland doing this, for that is a multilingual nation of Italian, German and French. You really need to think realistically, not just "because they are administrated by <country> the place should have that name> and get maps of differents languages, because if you get them all in Hungarian then they are no doubt going to have all provinces in Hungarian.
Click to expand...
jorian just wants to say:
"I don't care the damned europe or even that damned world. Just gimme back what I lost in trianon."

Watch his signature and you see what he is :confused:

I just hope that mapmakers in this project will be much more open minded than nationalistsc revisionists
 
elvain said:
jorian just wants to say:
I don't care the damned europe or even that damned world. Just gimme back what I lost in trianon. Just watch his signature and you see what he is :confused:

I just hope that mapmakers in this project will be much more open minded than nationalistsc revisionists
Click to expand...
trianon was not justified, no other nation lost so much of its %-s as Hungary, and I have the right to have it in my sig that we should never forget that day.

All other nations have their own day of 'mourning' becouse of something, do Hungarians not have even this right?!


And what I said: compromise. In the game its the best times of Hungary, and atleast this should be shown in the territory we had, and this means either province names (what i prefer) or citynames should be in hungarian.
I said you can name the citys however you want, and now quit to anger me with foolishness and childishness.

PS: you started this all again, WM and I have now a kind of truce, and I already said this all manytimes, all the other forum users want the best as their nations to represented, and I never said anything against others suggestions cous of this, and I don't know what my nationality has to do with making a gamemap where not I'm creating it, I just help!
If you don't like that, then stop bugging me and talk with the creator


PS2: Where the heck is the IGNORE button?
 
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what I see as compromise is to use neither Hungarian nor Slovak names as both sides are interested in the problem and may feel touched when the other gets the name in his language.

That's why I suggest German names, which are furthermore the most objective as the German influence in the region was strong indeed.

The only thing I'm trying to tell is that those regions were not Hungarian. I don't care who was touched in what treaty, I care that the region was objectively almost clear of Hungarians. I'm trying to help to make this map fit more than just one nation.
It looked like it may be done to fit only one nation so I tried to bring the best arguments to defend interests of other nations.

Ignore me, if you like it, I'd be glad too. I just hope that objectiity will win over one nation's nationalism
 
mandead said:
You see, chaps, look... arguments.

It's all fun n' games, until someone gets hurt :wacko:
Click to expand...
what he don't understands that that old borders were drawn by our ancestors, and did not much change since Árpád.
Most of other nations had their borders changed very often, and great changes did not happen after 17-18th century. Big exceptions are mostly Poland, Hungary, Russia

Noone likes to have his national and personal feelings get hurt, and that has happend to me not the 1st time. In the medieval and the time of EU2 the ruler mostly forced upon the people his own language, nationality, culture.
That happened nearly with us as habsburgs declared german official language, and of course we used that also before them, but not so harsh.
How I want to draw the borders of provs, name them, and psition the citys on them are all historical correct, or atleast understandable (I thought).
 
jorian said:
what he don't understands that that old borders were drawn by our ancestors, and did not much change since Árpád.
Most of other nations had their borders changed very often, and great changes did not happen after 17-18th century. Big exceptions are mostly Poland, Hungary, Russia

Noone likes to have his national and personal feelings get hurt, and that has happend to me not the 1st time. In the medieval and the time of EU2 the ruler mostly forced upon the people his own language, nationality, culture.
That happened nearly with us as habsburgs declared german official language, and of course we used that also before them, but not so harsh.
How I want to draw the borders of provs, name them, and psition the citys on them are all historical correct, or atleast understandable (I thought).
Click to expand...

Well, that seems a reasonable argument to me, jorian :)

And why won't these chaps let you make these proposed changes?
 
jorian said:
what he don't understands that that old borders were drawn by our ancestors, and did not much change since Árpád.
Most of other nations had their borders changed very often, and great changes did not happen after 17-18th century. Big exceptions are mostly Poland, Hungary, Russia
Click to expand...
that happened to my country aswell. But I don't deny that there were german speaking regions in Bohemia.

In the medieval and the time of EU2 the ruler mostly forced upon the people his own language, nationality, culture.
Click to expand...
this is absolutely wrong, at least for medieval times and also long time of EUII.
Houw would it then be possible that very strong minority of Slovaks survived alsmost 1000 year long rule of Hungarians? and why it were Germans who brought culture into Slovakia much more than the Hungarians?please don't tell me that Hungarian kings were Slovaks or Germans
English kings had no problems speaking French, Bohemian kings were half Czechs, half Germans, as well as their people

the cemtralization of "Habsburg empire" that went hand in hand with germanisaton, started when Maria Theresa lost Silesia and recognized that her state is incomparably weaker than Prussia. This happened in 1740's and later. Untill that even in Bohemia where the German minority was much stronger the ossicial language of bohemian offices was mostly czech(and in germanized regions also german)
How I want to draw the borders of provs, name them, and psition the citys on them are all historical correct, or atleast understandable (I thought).
Click to expand...
this is what I want too. I just want to respect more than just political borders. That's why I support to have german speaking regions in Bohemia having german names. Most of people over gere respect the culture of their states' minorities.

Maybe Hungarian have a complex that they were opressors of other nations when were opressed by germans later so they want their rule to be re-established more than it was. It is the only way I can interpret this behaviour and claims of Hungarians.

I assume that Trianon was very hard for you and unfair. But lift the hand up and go on, life (and history) goes on... ;)

but You yourslef assume that almost no Hungarians lived in the province of Pressburg. If this is not reason why it shouldn't be called in Hungarian, I surrender
 
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elvain said:
that happened to my country aswell. But I don't deny that there were german speaking regions in Bohemia.

this is absolutely wrong, at least for medieval times and also long time of EUII.
Houw would it then be possible that very strong minority of Slovaks survived alsmost 1000 year long rule of Hungarians? and why it were Germans who brought culture into Slovakia much more than the Hungarians?please don't tell me that Hungarian kings were Slovaks or Germans
English kings had no problems speaking French, Bohemian kings were half Czechs, half Germans, as well as their people

the cemtralization of "Habsburg empire" that went hand in hand with germanisaton, started when Maria Theresa lost Silesia and recognized that her state is incomparably weaker than Prussia. This happened in 1740's and later. Untill that even in Bohemia where the German minority was much stronger the ossicial language of bohemian offices was mostly czech(and in germanized regions also german)
this is what I want too. I just want to respect more than just political borders. That's why I support to have german speaking regions in Bohemia having german names. Most of people over gere respect the culture of their states' minorities.

Maybe Hungarian have a complex that they were opressors of other nations when were opressed by germans later so they want their rule to be re-established more than it was. It is the only way I can interpret this behaviour and claims of Hungarians.

I assume that Trianon was very hard for you and unfair. But lift the hand up and go on, life (and history) goes on... ;)

but You yourslef assume that almost no Hungarians lived in the province of Pressburg. If this is not reason why it shouldn't be called in Hungarian, I surrender
Click to expand...
1. I never said that about Hungary, absolutly not. We were the only real multicultural Nation in that time (don't meantion HRE, that was not a real nation)

2. you just offended more than once hungarians, this quote also shows that.
 
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